What if more people are saved than 'we' think?

[psalm84]

Here's an interesting thought; it's sort of my personal idea about salvation. I hope I can explain this well without being accused of heresy. What if many more people are saved than we think? What if simply believing that Jesus was who He claimed to be, rose from the dead, and is going to return are all that is required to be saved?

What more is there? Salvation is a gift, given to men by God when they believe His testimony about His Son. How else could the statement spoken by the Lord "and the gates of hell shall not prevail", be true if the Gospel of our salvation isn't simply believing Jesus is the Son of God and the events told in the Gospels(these events, being His death and resurrectiion) occured?

The popes and the catholic clergy held the truth in unrightiosness for over one thousand years; yet, there must have been people born again during that time. I believe they were saved, because they simply believed in the first advent, death and resurrection of Christ; no matter how much their minds were bogged down with catholic dilution. Do I sound like I am opening a way for heresy? I am trying to make the point that, salvation comes to all who truly believe in Christ. How else can they believe, except by the Holy Spirit?

I go to an independent fundemental baptist church, where we know we're saved; because the Gospel is preached very clearly. But the Lord couldn't have died for only a few million fortunate souls in the 1st, 2nd and 15th-21st centuries: those who had a clear accurate version of the Word of God and the Gospel so clearly preached. No, I believe that "He that believeth on Him is not condemned"(John3:18)

Your thoughts and critisims are appreciated,

Mark

[Robbinson]

Here's an interesting thought; it's sort of my personal idea about salvation. I hope I can explain this well without being accused of heresy. What if many more people are saved than we think? What if simply believing that Jesus was who He claimed to be, rose from the dead, and is going to return are all that is required to be saved?

What more is there? Salvation is a gift, given to men by God when they believe His testimony about His Son. How else could the statement spoken by the Lord "and the gates of hell shall not prevail", be true if the Gospel of our salvation isn't simply believing Jesus is the Son of God and the events told in the Gospels(these events, being His death and resurrectiion) occured?

The popes and the catholic clergy held the truth in unrightiosness for over one thousand years; yet, there must have been people born again during that time. I believe they were saved, because they simply believed in the first advent, death and resurrection of Christ; no matter how much their minds were bogged down with catholic dilution. Do I sound like I am opening a way for heresy? I am trying to make the point that, salvation comes to all who truly believe in Christ. How else can they believe, except by the Holy Spirit?

I go to an independent fundemental baptist church, where we know we're saved; because the Gospel is preached very clearly. But the Lord couldn't have died for only a few million fortunate souls in the 1st, 2nd and 15th-21st centuries: those who had a clear accurate version of the Word of God and the Gospel so clearly preached. No, I believe that "He that believeth on Him is not condemned"(John3:18)

Your thoughts and critisims are appreciated,

Mark

I agree with you. I believe salvation comes exclusively through faith in Jesus Christ - (faith and belief, in our hearts, that He is our savior, died for our sins, and was resurrected and sits on the right hand of the Father). However, scripture tells us that this belief is not possible without the assistance of the Holy Spirit (unless we are born again), and this is an act of grace from God (we do not control the Holy Spirit). I do not know how many are or will be saved. I hope it is millions and millions. We could have a long debate about what causes the Holy Spirit to act (forknowledge by God of those who would choose to accept Him - or pure grace of God based upon a plan we do not fully understand).

When we are saved through faith - works will follow - we become new creatures in Christ and yearn to understand God's Word and follow Jesus' example. This will be evidenced, in part, by our love of one another, as disciples of Christ. Consquently, those who do not evidence this behavior are probably not "saved" (but not because salvation is based on works - but because works will follow from true faith). I do not believe that sacraments play any role in salvation - although there are two sacraments (communion and water baptism) which are scriptural and which we should yearn for as symbols of our faith in the Lord. The Catholic Church has a completely different perspective on this - based largely on tradition, rather than on scripture.


Regards,

[Zack]

The popes and the catholic clergy held the truth in unrightiosness for over one thousand years; yet, there must have been people born again during that time. I believe they were saved, because they simply believed in the first advent, death and resurrection of Christ; no matter how much their minds were bogged down with catholic dilution. Do I sound like I am opening a way for heresy? I am trying to make the point that, salvation comes to all who truly believe in Christ. How else can they believe, except by the Holy Spirit?

I go to an independent fundemental baptist church, where we know we're saved; because the Gospel is preached very clearly. But the Lord couldn't have died for only a few million fortunate souls in the 1st, 2nd and 15th-21st centuries: those who had a clear accurate version of the Word of God and the Gospel so clearly preached. No, I believe that "He that believeth on Him is not condemned"(John3:18)

Your thoughts and critisims are appreciated,

Mark

I ran across a quote the other day that I think is appropriate here:

People have been getting saved right on up through the ages, quietly, regardless of all the maneuverings of the churches.

Faith alone.

[AnotherOldGuy]

What if many more people are saved than we think?
Sadly, I don't think so. I think it will be far fewer than we think.



What if simply believing that Jesus was who He claimed to be, rose from the dead, and is going to return are all that is required to be saved?
That is all that is required - with a caveat. If we use the more accurate meaning of the greek word that is translated 'believe'.


yet, there must have been people born again during that time.
Of course there were.


I am trying to make the point that, salvation comes to all who truly believe in Christ.
There's that word again.


But the Lord couldn't have died for only a few million fortunate souls in the 1st, 2nd and 15th-21st centuries: those who had a clear accurate version of the Word of God and the Gospel so clearly preached.
I might disagree with you about clarity and accuracy over the last 6 centuries.



I believe salvation comes exclusively through faith in Jesus Christ - (faith and belief, in our hearts, that He is our savior, died for our sins, and was resurrected and sits on the right hand of the Father).
You left the THE one word that is needed. But a lot of people will say the same thing as you. I think that from a scriptural standpoint, if someone quotes that response to Jesus, He will say "Depart from me".



faith in the Lord
BINGO! (with caveats)

[scrappergirl]

What if simply believing that Jesus was who He claimed to be, rose from the dead, and is going to return are all that is required to be saved?

even the demons BELIEVE. Since they were there when it all happened...
Yes all it takes is faith, but faith without works is dead. what good is a dead faith?

in any case, if i am wrong, then Praise God for His patience with us, and i'll be happy to see an even bigger banquet in heaven.

[Larry]

I believe there will be MANY less people in Heaven than we think.

Repent, meaning turn from your sins, and TRUST, in what Jesus did on the cross to pay your sin debt.

We all owe a debt we can't pay. Sin has condemned us, so we need a substitute, someone willing and worthy to pay that debt. Jesus took our place, so our debt IS paid, if we trust in what he did.

Merely believing in Jesus will not save anyone. Also, if you don't 'turn' from your sins, it shows Jesus you're not serious, just paying lip service.

If you cheated on your wife or husband, and after every time you did it, you just said you were sorry and asked for forgiveness, but the next week turned right around and did it again, do you think you would/should receive forgiveness?

The problem with the modern gospel, meaning to 'just say the prayer and you're saved' is not Biblical. Nowhere does it say you must 'accept' Jesus as your savior, actually it is him that must accept you.

There MUST be true repentance, (turning from sin) and then trust in Jesus, believing he did what he said he did.

Kirk explains it way better than me.

http://www.wayofthemaster.com/audiolessons.shtml

Larry

[blitzkreig]

even the demons BELIEVE. Since they were there when it all happened...
Yes all it takes is faith, but faith without works is dead. what good is a dead faith?
It is a ticket to heaven. That's all.

Demon's didn't "believe". They "knew" ... but salvation was never offered to them nor to fallen Angels.

The moment one introduces works ... it is no more faith. Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Out of interest ... just who is it you feel that the book of James was written to ?

It is no error that Dr. Fruchtenbaum's book puts James in with Hebrews, Peter and Jude in his book titled "The Messianic Jewish Epistles". The primary audience is the Jewish element left behind to fight it out with the Antichrist ... and under the Law once again ... a post "Church" period.

Of course the books have a secondary audience as do the Old Testament books ... us Christians. But it is slippery ground to go extracting doctrine from a book which starts it's very first verse by saying:

Jam 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting Unless you number in the scattered 12 tribes ... the diaspora ... you are reading mail intended for someone else .

.
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[Buzzardhut]

Jesus said few find heaven.

[blitzkreig]

Jesus said few find heaven.Jesus said that few entered the "Kingdom". This was during the phase of Jesus message to the Jews promising the establishment of the long promised Jewish independent nation. The "promised land".

After the ravages of the 7 year tribulation I have no doubt that is true. 2/3 of them are killed off.

This really doesn't have bearing on Heaven's number.

[AnotherOldGuy]

Repent, meaning turn from your sins
There MUST be true repentance, (turning from sin)
Repentance is not just turning from sin - but that's the common answer.

Repentance is to have a change of mind, about everything.

and then trust in Jesus"
Not really "and then". The "trusting in Jesus" IS a part of repentance. We go from self reliance to reliance in Him. That's what 'faith' really is. That's really what 'believe' is. The word translated as 'believe' is really 'the action of faith'. It's not to 'have faith' - it's to "do faith".




(2 Chr 6:37) "yet when they come to themselves in the land where they were carried captive, and repent, and make supplication to You in the land of their captivity, saying, 'We have sinned, we have done wrong, and have committed wickedness';

(2 Chr 6:38) "and when they return to You with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their captivity, where they have been carried captive, and pray toward their land which You gave to their fathers, the city which You have chosen, and toward the temple which I have built for Your name:

(2 Chr 6:39) "then hear from heaven Your dwelling place their prayer and their supplications, and maintain their cause, and forgive Your people who have sinned against You.