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goinghome
September 26th, 2007, 03:50 PM
I see this verse being used everywhere and there's one particular translation that brings questions up for me. Phil 4:13 King James, I can do all things through Christ which strengthen me. It's the word "which" that makes me ask this question. Do you think it's saying I can do all things, because Christ is my strength.... or I can do all the things which strengthen me, because of Christ. Others translations make that "which" into a "who" which seems to make more sense. But the whole chapter is about the things we're able to do, and get through because we have the strength of Christ. I often hear this verse being used to back up a belief that we can do ALL things, like we're somehow all powerful over our own circumstances. I'm just curious if anybody else has thought about this and what your thoughts are. Thanks!

Hootmon
September 26th, 2007, 03:54 PM
Lots of different 'takes' on that verse. Here are a few...

Php 4:13

(ALT) I am capable of [doing] all [things] through Christ, the [One] strengthening me.

(AMP) I have strength for all things in Christ Who empowers me [I am ready for anything and equal to anything through Him Who [7]infuses inner strength into me; I am [8]self-sufficient in Christ's sufficiency].

(AUV-NT) I can do everything through Christ, who gives me the strength.

(CJB) I can do all things through him who gives me power.

(KJV) I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

(KJV-1611) I can do all things through Christ, which strengtheneth me.

(Lamsa NT) I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

(MKJV) I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

(NAS77) I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

(NASB) I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

(NIV) I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

(YLT) For all things I have strength, in Christ's strengthening me;
Do you think it's saying I can do all things, because Christ is my strength....That is pretty close, IMO.

goinghome
September 26th, 2007, 04:59 PM
Mods, I meant to put this in Bible study. Sorry for the mess up. Could you please move when you get a chance? Thanks!

HehasmagnifiedHisWord
September 27th, 2007, 10:12 PM
I have leaned on this verse as a promise that God will give me the strength to do what I cannot do by myself. I like the word who in place of which.

Thanks for bring this promise to our attention to remind us we have the Lord to help to do all thing not alone,but He is there to help us and strengthen us! PTL!

Byrd
September 30th, 2007, 07:24 PM
Interesting that you should post this topic, as I am in the process of compiling a book on a subject similar to what you asked.

A short synopsis is: over 150 times in the NT writings, the Apostle Paul used the prepositional phrases In, With, Through, and By Christ. The scripture I can do all things through Christ is a small part of a much larger picture.

As example: Gal. 2:20 says I was crucified WITH Christ, nevertheless, it is not I that liveth, but Christ liveth in me. By being included in the crucifixition of Christ, our "old man" died "with Him" (read Roman 6)

Eph. 2:5-6 says that...even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive TOGETHER WITH Christ [by grace you have been saved) and raised us up WITH Him, and seated us WITH Him in the heavenly places IN Christ Jesus.

II Corin 5:17-18 Therefore if anyone is IN Christ, he is a new creature;the old things passed; behold new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself THROUGH Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.

I was crucified with Christ, have been raised and seated with Him in heavenly places, and am a new creature in Christ with a message to give the world - we are reconciled to God Through Christ.

Understanding these truths will change your Christian life, as they are not a reality that will happen after you die, they are true now. That is the message that the Apostle Paul brought to the church, and in Romans 6:17...that we became obedient from the heart to "that form of Teaching" to which you were committed. The form of teaching is the revelation in his writings of the fact that the Believer is in reality, and experience a New Creature In Christ.

It is an interesting and informative study, look into it and learn what God did in Christ for you.

Hope this helps!

AnotherOldGuy
September 30th, 2007, 09:36 PM
It's the word "which" that makes me ask this question.

Actually, the word for 'which' does not appear in the Greek. Literally, the verse says:

"All (those) I do through the strengthening of me by Christ." The noun 'Christ' is in the instrumental case (lexicons will say dative case): it describes the source of the action.


That verse is a continuation of what Paul is saying:

(Phil 4:11) Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content:

(Phil 4:12) I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

He's not saying "I CAN do things". He says, "All that I DO is because of strengthening from Christ". That verb is simple present active indicative (English present tense).


I know too many people who want that verse to say "I can do whatever because Christ strengthens me." That's not what it says.

LaMontre
September 30th, 2007, 10:05 PM
I see this verse being used everywhere and there's one particular translation that brings questions up for me. Phil 4:13 King James, I can do all things through Christ which strengthen me. It's the word "which" that makes me ask this question. Do you think it's saying I can do all things, because Christ is my strength.... or I can do all the things which strengthen me, because of Christ. Others translations make that "which" into a "who" which seems to make more sense. But the whole chapter is about the things we're able to do, and get through because we have the strength of Christ. I often hear this verse being used to back up a belief that we can do ALL things, like we're somehow all powerful over our own circumstances. I'm just curious if anybody else has thought about this and what your thoughts are. Thanks!

I think the general idea is that, no matter my circumstance, it is Jesus who gets me through it. In Christ I am humbled by the good times, and carried through the bad times.

goinghome
September 30th, 2007, 11:09 PM
Actually, the word for 'which' does not appear in the Greek. Literally, the verse says:

"All (those) I do through the strengthening of me by Christ." The noun 'Christ' is in the instrumental case (lexicons will say dative case): it describes the source of the action.


That verse is a continuation of what Paul is saying:

(Phil 4:11) Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content:

(Phil 4:12) I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

He's not saying "I CAN do things". He says, "All that I DO is because of strengthening from Christ". That verb is simple present active indicative (English present tense).


I know too many people who want that verse to say "I can do whatever because Christ strengthens me." That's not what it says.

This is what I have been thinking. It's not saying "I can do anything". It's saying I can do all the things "which" strengthen me, because Christ enables me (paraphrased badly). It seems that every sermon or article I read that refers to this verse is always trying to say that we can just do anything as long as we believe in Christ. I'll keep checking back on this to get the consensus, but this is what seems to fit best with all the other things he said in the chapter. Thanks to everybody who commented so far.

HeIsEnough
October 1st, 2007, 06:04 AM
It seems that every sermon or article I read that refers to this verse is always trying to say that we can just do anything as long as we believe in Christ.

Well that would be a fairly convenient doctrine for those wanting to justify whatever they want to do.

Just on an overall biblical level, the strength always comes from Christ, who strengthens to do good, or the will of the Father, which is always good. The 'all things' would be 'all things pertaining to godliness and righteousness', as he states a little before:


Philippians 4

8Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

In Paul's case, it was suffering a great deal to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, and he needed the strengthening in order to accomplish it.

Wildcat81
October 1st, 2007, 11:04 AM
"All (those) I do through the strengthening of me by Christ."

Except that the participle seems to me more likely to be a personal substantive, i.e. "the strengthener." and since the pronoun is in the accusative (so that "me" is the direct object of the participle), it would be "the one strengthening me." Of course, that sounds funny in English, so to polish it we add the relative pronoun "who" (or "which" in the KJV) and say "the one who strengthens me" or "him who strengthens me" (or, following the same manuscript variant as the Textus Receptus/KJV, "Christ who strengthens me").

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goinghome-

I think the difference between "which" in the KJV and "who" in the modern translations is more a function of the difference between 17th century English and 21st century English than anything. They're both relative pronouns, it's just that in modern English we don't use "which" for persons, usually, whereas when the KJV was produced, they did.

In context, the verse seems to be about us drawing our strength from Christ - that fits best with Paul's statements about having the secret of being content in all things, whether rich or poor, hungry or well-fed, etc. Basically, he's saying "I can be content in any circumstances and do what I need to do because I have Christ giving me strength."

That, at least, is how it seems to me.