The "Terms and Conditions" to be saved.

[blitzkreig]

Everyone is bound to have an opinion on this ...

Most opinions are based upon a mishmash of Old Testament Mosaic Law, New Testament "Kingdom" message ... which is extracted prior to the actual establishment of the Christian church from the Synoptics ... and hopefully a bit of actual Christian doctrine too.

Many opinions are based sadly on misconceptions and TV preacher nonsense.

True it is Grace which saves ... but if you are relying on a faith all wrapped up in human works of merit ... it is not a faith which can save at all.

And that is what many many preachers today promote ... specialy of the TV ilk ... I see it promoted on the internet every day.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

If one does not rely 100% on the completed work of the Cross and The Lord's propitious gift ... there is no reason to hope.

For anyone interested in actually studying the topic of "what conditions does God put upon us today to be saved?" ... there is no better start than prayerful consideration of the Scriptures ... and a study by one of those awful early 20th century preachers who preached of this "Rapture stuff" in the first place :lol2

From the founder of Dallas Theological Seminary Dr. Lewis Sperry Chafer ...

"The Terms of Salvation" (sub titled "A message for ministers and soul-winners") (http://bibleone.net/print_tbs45.html)

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[ForgivenOne]

I think it's simple really. To believe on Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour. The gift of Salvation through Christ is free because of His sacrifice for us. All we need to do is accept that. Accept that we cannot save ourselves but only through the blood of Jesus Christ can we be saved. Just believe and repent of being a sinner.

After that comes your personal relationship. He wants to be a part of your everyday Christian walk, but He doesn't pry. Talk to Him often through prayer and learn more about Him through the scriptures. =)

[CarolLyn]

...faith alone in Christ alone. By this concise phrase it is meant that a person obtains eternal life by voluntarily (willful) placing his genuine faith (trust or confidence) in only Jesus Christ and His substitutionary sacrifice on the cross, which is the “act of repentance,” a turning from every other confidence (good works, self-effort, a religious system or anyone or anything else).
This quote from the preface to the article gives an interesting definition of the word "repentance". I always thought of repentance as meaning to turn from sin--to Christ, Who paid for our sin by His substitutionary death. However, according to this article, as I understand it, the sin which is being "turned from" in repentance is the sin of unbelief (rather than sin in general). The author also contends that any requirement of remorse for sin in order to be saved is adding to the doctrine of 'salvation by grace through faith alone', and therefore not valid.

I'm not arguing for or against this view...I'm just saying it's new to me. The following scripture might support this view:
Acts 26: 18. To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

However, the follwing verse seems to suggest that repentance and turning to God are two separate acts.

Acts 26: 20. But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

What do you think? Is the repentance required for salvation a repentance only from unbelief...or is it repentance from sin in general (which would probably also include remorse for our sin)? Also, does the doctrine of "faith alone" not require a surrender of our life to Christ? It seems to me that a heart surrender (not just a change of mind) is necessary for salvation. I guess the answer to that question requires a definition of "faith".

[CarolLyn]

When I wrote the above post, I had not read the entire article. Now that I have, I will post the quotes that I have questions about.
4. THE ABSENCE OF THE DEMAND FOR REPENTANCE FROM SALVATION SCRIPTURES.
Paragraphs 3 & 4:
When the Apostle Paul and his companion, Silas, made reply to the jailer concerning what he should do to be saved, they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” (Acts 16:31). This reply, it is evident, fails to recognize the necessity of repentance in addition to believing. From this overwhelming mass of irrefutable evidence, it is clear that the New Testament does not impose repentance upon the unsaved as a condition of salvation.
The Gospel of John with its direct words from the lips of Christ, the Epistle to the Romans with its exhaustive treatment of the theme in question, the Apostle Paul, and the whole array of 150 New Testament passages which are the total of the divine instruction, are incomplete and misleading if repentance must be accorded a place separate from, and independent of, believing. No thoughtful person would attempt to defend such a notion against such odds, and those who have thus undertaken doubtless have done so without weighing the evidence or considering the untenable position which they assume.

The author seems to be saying here that repentance is not necessary for salvation. Even after reading his argument, I can't say that I agree with him. I know that salvation is "not of works", but I see repentance from sins as part of the salvation process. The repentance is not something we can do on our own, neither is believing something we can do on our own, but both are made possible by the Holy Spirit's work in our hearts at the time of salvation.

Acts 2: 37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

He dismisses the following passages by saying that in them all, the word "repentance" is used as a synonym for believing. It seems to me that if scripture uses repentance as a synonym for believing, then it must be a necessary part of the salvation experience.

Acts 17: 30. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Romans 2: 4. Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

2 Tim. 2: 25. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

2 Peter 3: 9. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

He says, and I fully agree, that salvation is a work of God alone.

A moment’s attention to the transforming divine undertakings which enter into salvation of the lost will bring one to the realization of the truth that every feature involved presents a task which is superhuman, and, therefore, if to be accomplished at all, must be wrought by God alone. Such a discovery will prepare the mind for the reception of the truth and that the only relation man can sustain to this great undertaking is to depend utterly upon God to do it. That is the simplicity of faith.

But regarding surrendering to God as part of salvation, he says this:

IV. BELIEVE AND SURRENDER TO GOD
1. THE INCAPACITY OF THE UNSAVED.
Much has been written on previous pages regarding the overwhelming testimony of the Bible to the utter inability and spiritual death of the unsaved. They are shut up to the one message that Christ is their Savior; and they cannot accept Him, the Word of God declares, unless illuminated to that end by the Holy Spirit. Saving faith is not a possession of all men but is imparted specifically to those who do believe (Eph. 2:8).

As all this is true, it follows that to impose a need to surrender the life to God as an added condition of salvation is most unreasonable. God’s call to the unsaved is never said to be unto the Lordship of Christ; it is unto His saving grace. With the reception of the divine nature through the regenerating work of the Spirit, a new understanding and a new capacity to respond to the authority of Christ are gained. Those attending upon these issues in practical ways are aware that a self-dedication taxes the limit of ability even of the most devout believer. The error of imposing Christ’s Lordship upon the unsaved is disastrous even though they are not able intelligently to resent it or to remind the preacher of the fact that he, in calling upon them to dedicate their lives, is demanding of them what they have no ability to produce.

It seems to me that the author acknowledges God's Holy Spirit working in the heart of the lost person so they can believe, but he does not acknowledge the Holy Spirit working in the unbeliever's heart to enable him to surrender to God and receive Him as Lord. I see this surrender and receiving Jesus as Lord as part of the salvation experience. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the one being saved, not the work of the person himself (and therefore it is not based on man's works, but on God's work in the person's heart).

What do you think?

[blitzkreig]

It seems to me that the author acknowledges God's Holy Spirit working in the heart of the lost person so they can believe, but he does not acknowledge the Holy Spirit working in the unbeliever's heart to enable him to surrender to God and receive Him as Lord. I see this surrender and receiving Jesus as Lord as part of the salvation experience. It is the work of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the one being saved, not the work of the person himself (and therefore it is not based on man's works, but on God's work in the person's heart).

What do you think?You are tilting at "Lordship Salvation" ... popularized by several populist TV preachers (some who write book after book on the topic) which is great radio preacher speak ... but is not scriptural.

Of course we will ultimately seek to follow in His Will as you walk with the Lord. But what is necessary for salvation in this dispensation is belief. Period.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

The author is making it clear that while a whole bunch of well meaning folks are generally confusing the daylights out of unbelievers who can not grasp the concept of "repentance" or "surrender" or "Lordship" ... They have to be saved and brought under the management of the Holy Spirit to even understand the concept ... let alone have any success toward that end.

Because that is the roll of Sanctification. Not Justification.

FWIW Sanctification is an act of the Holy Spirit as well. One can not be self Sanctified.

It seems to me that the author acknowledges God's Holy Spirit working in the heart of the lost person so they can believe, but he does not acknowledge the Holy Spirit working in the unbeliever's heart to enable him to surrender to God and receive Him as Lord. Two separate actions ... sometimes separated in time by years and years.

The minute you add works to the formula, you undo grace. Whether that is knocking on so many doors a week like the JWs or it is meritorious behaviour in general like the Catholics.

It is rather stunning when you come to understand this condition which God has placed on Salvation. It is hard to do nothing ... but just believe.

It is sad to come to understand that these well meaning folks who add works ... may be preaching "another gospel" as it is described in the book of Galatians.

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(Gal 1:6-9)These Galatian folks were adding merit ... The Law.


Of course the "Repentance" bit is popularized as a requirement of Salvation in no small part from 20th century evangelists.

That and the tears requirement. Sullen self loathing is sometimes demanded.

The tears requirement is the most bizarre bit as in Scripture there is not one precedent ... everyone ever saved in Scripture was immediately overjoyed ... not rendered to sobbing and tears.

This quote from the preface to the article gives an interesting definition of the word "repentance". I always thought of repentance as meaning to turn from sin--to Christ, Who paid for our sin by His substitutionary death. However, according to this article, as I understand it, the sin which is being "turned from" in repentance is the sin of unbelief (rather than sin in general). The author also contends that any requirement of remorse for sin in order to be saved is adding to the doctrine of 'salvation by grace through faith alone', and therefore not valid.

You also keyed in on the fact that some 2,000 years ago the Lord paid for all sin. Good catch. I can tell you are studying this seriously.

1Jo 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. If Christ paid for the sins of the whole world as it says ... they are paid for.

What is missing is belief only. Any disbelief of this fact that all of the sins have been fully paid for is ... well ... by very definition "unbelief"!

I often make it a point that doctrine doesn't save anyone ... that if one holds a different understanding than I do it is not important. But when it comes to the Terms and Conditions laid out in Scripture as to what saves a person and what can not ... it seems to me to be the difference between life and death.

Now it is just asking to be tossed off the forum to go and speculate which major groups who call themselves "Christian" may not be Christian at all ... but it does keep me awake some nights just distressed about it ....

.

[Leialoha]

I'm not sure that I understand what "Lordship" salvation is. If I believe that Jesus died for my sins, and I believe that I deserve Hell, and I realize how horrible I've sinned (all revealed to me by the Holy Spirit) then I would respond by calling Him LORD and follow His ways.

Believe without obedience is really nothing. I know, I believed for many years without understanding that I really was a great sinner. For 20 years I found obedience and spiritual disciplines a drag (bible reading, prayer, right living) but after my true conversion I couldn't help but make Christ Lord. Sins I enjoyed instantly made me sick.

What came first.....belief and then repentance? I think so, but belief without repentance is dead. What I cannot wrap my mind around is how I could have ever chosen to repent without the Holy Spirit working it in me.

[frankDH]

This quote from the preface to the article gives an interesting definition of the word "repentance". I always thought of repentance as meaning to turn from sin--to Christ, Who paid for our sin by His substitutionary death. However, according to this article, as I understand it, the sin which is being "turned from" in repentance is the sin of unbelief (rather than sin in general). The author also contends that any requirement of remorse for sin in order to be saved is adding to the doctrine of 'salvation by grace through faith alone', and therefore not valid.

I'm not arguing for or against this view...I'm just saying it's new to me. The following scripture might support this view:


However, the follwing verse seems to suggest that repentance and turning to God are two separate acts.



What do you think? Is the repentance required for salvation a repentance only from unbelief...or is it repentance from sin in general (which would probably also include remorse for our sin)? Also, does the doctrine of "faith alone" not require a surrender of our life to Christ? It seems to me that a heart surrender (not just a change of mind) is necessary for salvation. I guess the answer to that question requires a definition of "faith".


Repentance from sin in general is beyond the capability of man because he is born in a sinful state he cannot change through repentance. The correction of a sin nature is a work of the Spirit through the process of rebirth. Salvation is a prerquisite for this to happen.

But God's grace does allow for a work of the Sprit which will cause man to recognize his sinful state. It is through the conviction process that man has the realization of a choice.

So I would tend toward the belief that repentance must take the form of turning to God's light, prior to salvation and only after rebirth can man bring his body under subjection from the temptation of general sin.

[HeIsEnough]

Now it is just asking to be tossed off the forum to go and speculate which major groups who call themselves "Christian" may not be Christian at all ... but it does keep me awake some nights just distressed about it .....

Well you should realize that is the the underlying essence of lordship teaching as well....worry over who's not getting it right, and believing they are still in hell for that presumed fact. All by the judgment seen with the eyes.

[AnotherOldGuy]

True it is Grace which saves ... but if you are relying on a faith all wrapped up in human works of merit ... it is not a faith which can save at all.
Grace is neither a term nor a condition. God doesn't have to save anyone. But He does. That is grace.

The 'terms and conditions' are the same now that they have always been - subservience to the Supreme Authority. In the OT that was God (Jehovah). In the NT, that is Jesus Christ.

You mention "a faith". "A faith" in 'who' or 'what'? What does 'faith' mean? That's what people are having trouble with.



If one does not rely 100% on the completed work of the Cross and The Lord's propitious gift ... there is no reason to hope.
That is very "churchy" sounding phrase. What does it mean to you? What do most people think it means?



To believe on Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.
Let's leave off the savior part. That's one of the things that confuses people. Believing that He is savior will not save you. If you want to argue the point show me a verse that says 'believe on Jesus as your Lord and Savior'.

(John 4:42) Then they said to the woman, "Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world."

(1 John 4:14) And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.

He came to be the savior of the world, but obviously there is a condition that must be met in order to be saved - otherwise the everybody is already saved.

Notice that after Acts, we start seeing the phrase "our Savior". All of the books after Acts were written to Christians. There is a step that must happen before He becomes our Savior.

(Eph 5:23) For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

He saves those who belong to Him (or are "in Him"). Believeing that He is your savior is of no use unless you are already "in Him".



The gift of Salvation through Christ is free because of His sacrifice for us. All we need to do is accept that.
A very ambiguous statement - and techically incorrect. The first part is correct. The second part is not. That is same thing as "believing He is your Savior". A savior saves - that is salvation. Jesus is the Savior of the body. The gift of salvation is given freely to those "in Him". Jesus is not like the little ladies at Sam's Club giving out food samples to whomever walks by. He is like the probate judge who awards inheritances to members of a family. To accept that free gift, we must first belong to the family.



Accept that we cannot save ourselves but only through the blood of Jesus Christ can we be saved.
Maybe to you it's implied - but what is the standard that we must first believe before we can realize that we need to be saved?

It is true, we are saved "through the blood of Jesus Christ". But how? His Blood makes it possible for us to be saved. It is what reconciles us to God. But how?


Just believe and repent of being a sinner.
Believe what? Your above statement won't do it.

Not "repent of being a sinner" - repent. To repent is to have a change of mind (literally). Are you saying that if I think that sin is wrong then I'm saved? Or - if I stop sinning then I'm saved?

No - we repent. We submit and subjugate our thoughts, our desires to those of the Lord. We change our minds from being self-centered and self-controlled to total trust and reliance on the Lord.


However, the follwing verse seems to suggest that repentance and turning to God are two separate acts.
No - it's giving the definition of 'repent'.



He dismisses the following passages by saying that in them all, the word "repentance" is used as a synonym for believing.
I wouldn't say they are technically synonyms, but there is an intimate connection. Repentance is the more general word - a change of mind and/or heart. Believing to rely on and entrust ones self to.


If Christ paid for the sins of the whole world as it says ... they are paid for.

What is missing is belief only.
Absolutely!

So it comes down to - Believe what? And - what does 'believe' really mean?

[CarolLyn]

When I was 13 years old, I heard for the first time about the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for my sins at an evangelistic crusade. I believed (with my mind) that Jesus had died for the sins of the world. I figured that meant me too. I went forward, joined a church, etc. But I didn't love God. Nothing had changed in my heart. I didn't repent of my sins. Was I saved? I don't think so. I didn't get saved until I was 34 years old, when God brought conviction to my heart. This conviction brought me to repentance of my sins. Repentance is not works, it is a result of the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

The requirement of repentance for salvation is clearly taught in the following verses. It is not a false doctrine taught by TV preachers who are leading people astray The following verses speak clearly...

Acts 3:19. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out

Acts 20: 21. Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 2: 37. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, (conviction) and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

There are many other verses that link repentance with the salvation experience.

I have to go now...be back later :)