The Tithing Thread *Merged*

[goinghome]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kknight View Post
Not to argue, but "tithe" means "one-tenth." And I do think there are calls for the Christian to tithe. I found a good page that gives a large number of scriptural references and reasonings:

http://www.gospelcenterchurch.org/tithingtoday.html

I'll drop it here though as I know I've gone off-topic from the OP

Thanks,
Kknight
I went to the site. It's absolutely wrong. Misinterpretation and misunderstanding of scripture all over the place. Please continue reading up on this. I have at least 10 websites I could paste that Biblically refute all that was stated in the website you posted. But we have to prove these things to ourselves as I've learned. I too thought tithing was Biblical and defended it for a while. If you go to all of those scripture references (because that's how I started out studying this) and read what the chapter/paragraphs are really saying, you'll see the tithe is not what preachers today say it is. You are right that tithe means 10%, but 10% of what, when, by who, given to who, what purpose, how many times per year???? On and On, it is not a Biblical precedent, nor is it a teaching for today. Giving is the teaching for today. Please continue to study. I don't want to lead anybody astray and I'm sure you don't either.

[goinghome]

I think it's important to get feedback onthis as it seems to come up on so many threads. By teaching tithing, it is my belief, that the Body of Christ is being held back financially, spiritually, and in works. Many people think that if they follow the unbiblical teaching of tithing (giving 10% of your income to a church), as taught by many preachers, that they are somehow fulfilling the Christians' responsibility toward God, and their fellow man. The new testament is full of examples that we're to give our money, time, service, whole selves, as prompted by the Holy Spirit. If we feel we've done "our part" by giving 10% of our income to a church, we may not be listening to the Holy Spirit at all in this regard. What are your thoughts, experiences? What have you learned about this teaching. Thanks!

[LaMontre]

For the record, I agree with you.

However, this is one of those experiencial type of things that are applied "because it seems to work". TBH, when I was among such congregations, they were constantly asking for money and were constantly in a state of need, in spite of the fact that everyone was "tithing". Of course, any financial problems were either glossed over (if you were tithing faithfully) or blamed upon your own lack of obedience (if your weren't).

I have debated this topic with tithers who believe in it until I am blue in the face, and there is no changing their minds in most cases.

But I believe you are right, and tithing according to the law causes the good work of financial giving to become a dead work.

However I do believe this as well....

If a person has "purposed in their hearts" (2 Cor 9:7) to give ten percent that they believe by faith that this is what God is leading them to do, then who am I to contend with them.

However, if they teach it like it is a part of "Christian duty obedience to God" they are wrong, wrong, wrong.

I also believe that it is biblically correct, when the giving is of a right heart, to expect that God will give bountifully to they that give bountifully, and sparingly to they that give sparingly. (2 Cor 9:6)

Pretty simple principle really, that I think is often stifled by demanding that the tithe is the way.

If a person gives a tithe when they fee they cannot afford to, then they are obviously giving grudgingly. In this context their might be a biblical case made that the congregation is actually stifling their own blessing.

[politically_incorrect]

Read this in its' entirety.

http://bible-truths.com/tithing.html

[Comfort me]

Paul told the Corinthians to give as their heart desires. If you are not giving out of happiness then the Lord don't want it and won't bless you for it.

2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

[Kknight]

If we feel we've done "our part" by giving 10% of our income to a church, we may not be listening to the Holy Spirit at all in this regard.

I'll come back to this thread when I have some more free time (I'm getting ready to run out the door at the moment) but I just wanted to say that I don't believe that by tithing I've done "my part" and therefore don't need to do anything else. That is very clearly wrong. But I don't think that it is wrong to teach tithing because "Christian's may misunderstand and think that's ALL they have to do to do 'their part.'" I give tithes and offerings. I also give of my time. I also give to charities that care for the poor in various ways. I don't in any way think that tithing "fulfills my obligation" and then I'm done.

Thanks for starting this thread goinghome. :) I'll be back later. ;)

Kknight

EDIT - In response to Comfort Me: I agree that cheerful giving is critical. I love to give (and tithe.) I don't do it because I think it is a legalistic obligation.

[goinghome]

For the record, I agree with you.

However, this is one of those experiencial type of things that are applied "because it seems to work". TBH, when I was among such congregations, they were constantly asking for money and were constantly in a state of need, in spite of the fact that everyone was "tithing". Of course, any financial problems were either glossed over (if you were tithing faithfully) or blamed upon your own lack of obedience (if your weren't).

I have debated this topic with tithers who believe in it until I am blue in the face, and there is no changing their minds in most cases.

But I believe you are right, and tithing according to the law causes the good work of financial giving to become a dead work.

However I do believe this as well....

If a person has "purposed in their hearts" (2 Cor 9:7) to give ten percent that they believe by faith that this is what God is leading them to do, then who am I to contend with them.

However, if they teach it like it is a part of "Christian duty obedience to God" they are wrong, wrong, wrong.

I also believe that it is biblically correct, when the giving is of a right heart, to expect that God will give bountifully to they that give bountifully, and sparingly to they that give sparingly. (2 Cor 9:6)

Pretty simple principle really, that I think is often stifled by demanding that the tithe is the way.

If a person gives a tithe when they fee they cannot afford to, then they are obviously giving grudgingly. In this context their might be a biblical case made that the congregation is actually stifling their own blessing.


Great points!!! I absolutely agree that if the Lord has put upon you to give 10% or any % you should do it and I would never judge that. And I do think that 10% can be a good starting point for Christians to get into a habit of giving and learning. Really want to bring attention to the false teaching of obligation because I think it trips us along our path. I too have experienced an outpouring when I've given from the heart in any amount. Sometimes of needed $$ funds, sometimes of kindness from others, or wisdom about how to handle bills better, etc..... Giving is very very good. :yeah

[goinghome]

I'll come back to this thread when I have some more free time (I'm getting ready to run out the door at the moment) but I just wanted to say that I don't believe that by tithing I've done "my part" and therefore don't need to do anything else. That is very clearly wrong. But I don't think that it is wrong to teach tithing because "Christian's may misunderstand and think that's ALL they have to do to do 'their part.'" I give tithes and offerings. I also give of my time. I also give to charities that care for the poor in various ways. I don't in any way think that tithing "fulfills my obligation" and then I'm done.

Thanks for starting this thread goinghome. :) I'll be back later. ;)

Kknight

EDIT - In response to Comfort Me: I agree that cheerful giving is critical. I love to give (and tithe.) I don't do it because I think it is a legalistic obligation.

KKnight, I'm so sorry, I think I unintentionally may have implied that you were guilty of only giving 10% out of obligation, or giving to get or something bad. I really never meant to imply this at all about you. I'm always thankful for your posts which make us all think. It just so happens to be a pet peeve of mine when some people become very smug about giving a tithe to their church (in some cases a WOF or other unbiblical church), while allowing their family to suffer or be on welfare, or watch children be hurt and won't give time or service to help out. That's the main jist of the thread. To get people to think about what giving really is in the Bible, in the Jewish law, according to Christ, and in our individual lives now. I'm glad you joined this thread too.:hug

[Kknight]

KKnight, I'm so sorry, I think I unintentionally may have implied that you were guilty of only giving 10% out of obligation, or giving to get or something bad. I really never meant to imply this at all about you. I'm always thankful for your posts which make us all think. It just so happens to be a pet peeve of mine when some people become very smug about giving a tithe to their church (in some cases a WOF or other unbiblical church), while allowing their family to suffer or be on welfare, or watch children be hurt and won't give time or service to help out. That's the main jist of the thread. To get people to think about what giving really is in the Bible, in the Jewish law, according to Christ, and in our individual lives now. I'm glad you joined this thread too.:hug

Hi goinghome,

No need to apologize, but thank you for the clarification ;) :hug

Really from reading your posts, it seems that we agree on more than we disagree on.

In a nutshell, I believe that tithing/giving is an acknowledgement that everything we have/make/earn comes from God. Giving him the first and best 10%+ is a way of honoring that fact. I also believe that it is a way of "including" God in my finances and putting Him first in that aspect of my life as we are supposed to do in every aspect.

While I don't think that Christians that don't tithe/give are necessarily sinning because of it, I do believe that they are not including God in their finances. I do believe that God promises blessing to those that faithfully give their tithes and offerings (most explicitely in Malachi 3:10-11.)

I do agree that we need to be cheerful givers and our hearts need to be in the right place...as opposed to "giving so that we can get something in return." I also agree that 10% is a good starting point, rather than an ending point.

My "pet peeve" is those that use "living under grace" as an excuse to justify the fact that they are dropping $5 in the offering plate once a month when they have an income of $10K/month and then thinking that they have "done their part" in supporting the church/ministry...so I'm sorry if I got a bit defensive on that point. :hug

In closing, I'll give the short version of my "giving" testimony if that's OK:

Back in mid to late 2000, my wife and I were relative newlyweds (married in March of 1999) and we had a newborn baby. We were struggling big time to make ends meet. We could barely pay the bills (sometimes bouncing the checks we sent off) and on several occasions could not afford food to the point where we went for days without eating (only feeding the baby.) It was at this time that we decided that we needed to involve God in our finances and that the best way to do so was to make a committment to give/tithe faithfully DESPITE the fact that all the evidence showed that we could not afford to. We decided to take a "leap of faith" so to speak. We did this by committing to give to the Lord FIRST everytime we got paid...before paying any bills, buying any food, etc. Ever since making that committment, He has provided completely for our every need. I'm not saying that we haven't been through some financial struggles since then, BUT the bills are always paid, there is always food on the table, we always have the money for clothes when we need them, etc. This was truly a miracle because the committment to put the Lord first in our financial lives was the ONLY thing that we changed. When we were trying to live off 100% of our income, we couldn't make it. But when we started giving to Him first and then having faith that he would provide, everything worked...DESPITE the fact that we should have had LESS money to survive on. I now make significantly more than I did back then, but I know that it is all from Him and we have stuck by our committment to Him since that time.

While I can't say if this type of thing is the "right path" for everybody, I have found that a lot of the Christians that I see struggling are doing the same thing that we used to...paying the bills and trying to live life first and then giving God the leftovers...if there are any leftovers.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I hope that helps clarify my position ;)

Thanks again,
Kknight

[Skywalker]

We did this by committing to give to the Lord FIRST everytime we got paid...before paying any bills, buying any food, etc. Ever since making that committment, He has provided completely for our every need. I'm not saying that we haven't been through some financial struggles since then, BUT the bills are always paid, there is always food on the table, we always have the money for clothes when we need them, etc. This was truly a miracle because the committment to put the Lord first in our financial lives was the ONLY thing that we changed. When we were trying to live off 100% of our income, we couldn't make it. But when we started giving to Him first and then having faith that he would provide, everything worked...DESPITE the fact that we should have had LESS money to survive on. I now make significantly more than I did back then, but I know that it is all from Him and we have stuck by our committment to Him since that time.

Thanks again,
Kknight

I second that testimony. :nod