Scandal brewing at Oral Roberts U.

[Just As I Am]

I'm thinking another WOF Wolf just got busted....

What is WOF? I've wondered in other posts as well. Thanks

[The Learner]

What is WOF? I've wondered in other posts as well. Thanks

Word of Faith.

It is a doctrine born out of the charismatic penecostal movement that focuses on material blessings, health, and general prosperity. There are some good resources available in the Aposty forum concerning WOF.

[magnum_the_logical]

Magnum, I do not live in a 'dream world'. I know that there would be a shortage, but that would be 'God's problem' and not ours. SO it is okay to have someone fill the spot even though they do not fit the requirement..............so if you are going to do away with one of the qualifications, then we can 'fudge' on some of the others.


This is precisely what is wrong with our churches today. It is a PROFESSION and not a CALLING.

As to the no one over 30, that is not true. My husband and I are almost 50 and we have both only been with each other and we waited until our wedding night. I have 2 son's in law that are almost 30 and they have only been with my daughters. (they also waited) My son waited until his wedding and he has only been with my daughter in law. The world wants you to believe that these are isolated cases, they aren't. There are good men, godly men, they just aren't talked about and sadly even the church says it is 'impossible'.

It is a very slippery slope. Yes God can and does forgive ALL sins even divorce, but He also didn't give any *footnotes to the verses about the requirements.

I do believe that divorced people can and are required to serve God, I don't believe that they are second class christians either. My sins put me on equal footing with them.........we are all just forgiven.


I did not say there is no one. And remember you are almost 50. I hope that your husband has been 100% true to you. I will not dispute it but I will say that if it is true then you are in the 1% I talked about. The generation of today that is between 30 and 40 are much less likely to be in the "One partner for life" group. Unless that one partner happens to be of the same sex!

If you truly beleive that there are enough men out there that have been monogomous or celebate to fill the positions of the churches leadership then I commend your imagination. However, I do not live in wonderland.

If God truly requires that anyone who is in the pulpit is either married only once, single and celebate or monogmous then that explains what is wrong with the church. You see, it would mean that 90% of all pastors are in the pulpit "IllegallY" per scripture. I would like to see all pastors be men of this integrity but I am not going to even begin to fool myself into beleiving that they are and they it is even possible in today;s wold

This is idealism at is furtherest edge. Beleive what you will but hey you can beleive the sky is magenta instead of blue but it does not make the belief a valid one.


Man oh man. Why has reality seemed to have been lost in the minds of so many people.

[AnotherOldGuy]

If God truly requires that anyone who is in the pulpit is either married only once, single and celebate or monogmous then that explains what is wrong with the church.
The church is in error because it, in theory, heeds scripture?

Actually, what is wrong with the church is that it doesn't heed scripture enough.



You see, it would mean that 90% of all pastors are in the pulpit "IllegallY" per scripture.
It would be interesting to see the source of your statistics.



Why has reality seemed to have been lost in the minds of so many people.
And I wonder why God's commands have been lost in the minds of so many people.



This is idealism at is furtherest edge.
It's called 'obeying'.


Why has reality seemed to have been lost in the minds of so many people.
I'll bet there was an old geezer who heard that while building a boat. I'll bet there were three Jewish guys who heard that on the way to the furnace. I'll bet lots of people who were fixin' to become cat food heard that.

It may be "logical" to think that our world is reality, but 'logic' is a human trait. God isn't bound by our human traits.

[Mrsppmrxky]

Magnum, I believe that there is a scripture that says God chooses things that confound the world...........hmmmmmmmmm, off to bounce around in my rubber room with this nice little white jacket that Magnum has so graciously said I need to to be wearing.

Now, what other scriptures do you suggest we delete from your bible? Maybe the Thomas Jefferson bible would appeal to your faith.

[magnum_the_logical]

Magnum, I believe that there is a scripture that says God chooses things that confound the world...........hmmmmmmmmm, off to bounce around in my rubber room with this nice little white jacket that Magnum has so graciously said I need to to be wearing.

Now, what other scriptures do you suggest we delete from your bible? Maybe the Thomas Jefferson bible would appeal to your faith.


You see what I mean. Lack of reality brings this type of response. I never said to delete any scripture. I only pointed out the facts. Due to the society that we live in I am willing to bet that of all of the preachers/Pastors in America, over 75% of them have either been married more than once or are divorced and not remarried or have had more than one sexual partner in their life. If you think this is not accurate then you are living in wonderland.

This is a ridculos debate. Facts are that Pastors are human and as you have seen in the catholic church, celebacy is only lip service. These guys vow celebacy then act out their natural desire to have sex in unnatural ways, "With altar boys"


It amazes me that people can truly beleive their pastor as well as even half of all pastors are somehow supermen who do not have natural desires.

I stated 75% in this post to be generous. I hold to the 90% rule. I gurantee if the truth be known, "And God knows the truth" that over 90% of all pastors have had more than one sex partner in their life.

Why do I say this? Because, Men in general fit that percentage and Pastors are just men.

If you disqualify all men who have had more than one sex partner who is still alive on earth from becoming an pastor then you will have to start looking for other life forms to fill the positions. Pastors are human and humans are not perfect. These days people are sexually promiscuos. The sexual revelotion of the 60's and 70's increased the number of sex partners men and women have had. Humans have always acted this way, just more so these days.

Hey, between the age of 16 and 22 I was intimate with over 100 different females. I am not a "stud", an athelete nor I am rich. I am an average guy and hey, it was normal behaviour for my generation. Of all the men I know, most have had double digit female sex partners. Now I am to beleive that there are enough men bewteen the ages of 25 and 45 to fill all pastorial positions who have either been celebate or managomous? Please, give me a break. That is so absurd it is laughable. That is what I am saying.

[Mrsppmrxky]

1 Timothy 3:1-7
1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

[Mrsppmrxky]

Magnum, do you really not see that because the 'church' has lowered God's standards this is why we are considered such hypocrites and our witness is comprimised?

We have the money grubbers...........
we have the verbal brawlers of TV ministries..........
we have the ones that go to prostitutes...........
we have the ones that do not have their teens undercontrol.........
we have drunkards................

all of these are spoken against in this scripture. If you pick "1" and do away with it, then you are doing away with scripture and God said we are not to add to or take away.

When we do this, we fall into reproach from the outside world.

[kristine]

I did not say there is no one. And remember you are almost 50. I hope that your husband has been 100% true to you. I will not dispute it but I will say that if it is true then you are in the 1% I talked about. The generation of today that is between 30 and 40 are much less likely to be in the "One partner for life" group. Unless that one partner happens to be of the same sex!

Magnum, this statement is incredibly rude and uncalled for. I understand the point you are trying to make but this is NOT the way to go about it. I think an apology from you is in order.

[kristine]

I wanted to add, Magnum, that GOD, NOT man, has set the standards for our leaders/pastors of the church. If it was unrealistic or impossible, GOD would have never set these standards in the first place.