"Ten Shekels and a Shirt"

[Beth O]

I have only been on this board a short time and am amazed at the social gospel being preached by those defending the emergents such as Rob Bell.

I have a challenge for those that are emerging and those that are defending the one true gospel of Jesus Christ. Please listen to this sermon. I'm sure many know of it and have probably already listened to it. Print the transcript and listen along while you read. Find "Ten Shekels and a Shirt" by Paris Reidhead.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/

You can also find it at http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?SpeakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Paris%5EReidhead if you want to download it.

Take an hour, get re-focused. Take some time off of posting listen and be edified. I listened to it yesterday and feel re-focused. Shake out all of the humanism and focus on this; MAY THE LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN, RECEIVE THE REWARD OF HIS SUFFERING!"

Let's discuss this sermon.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=282

[grape on the vine]

Hi,
Just subscribing to the thread at this point. I will listen to that sermon tomorrow. Currently I can't at work, but will be able to tomorrow.

Again, thanks for making this thread. :)

[Beth O]

Hi,
Just subscribing to the thread at this point. I will listen to that sermon tomorrow. Currently I can't at work, but will be able to tomorrow.

Again, thanks for making this thread. :)

Please be sure to let us know what you think. I'm glad you are willing to take the time to give this a listen. :thumbup

[grape on the vine]

Of course. :)

[seeHimsoon]

well, this is actually my all time favorite sermon. It humbles pride, exposes humanism and boldly declares what our motivation for ministry, missions and evangelism should be: the glory of God.

[grape on the vine]

I have only been on this board a short time and am amazed at the social gospel being preached by those defending the emergents such as Rob Bell.

I have a challenge for those that are emerging and those that are defending the one true gospel of Jesus Christ. Please listen to this sermon. I'm sure many know of it and have probably already listened to it. Print the transcript and listen along while you read. Find "Ten Shekels and a Shirt" by Paris Reidhead.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/

You can also find it at http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?SpeakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Paris%5EReidhead if you want to download it.

Take an hour, get re-focused. Take some time off of posting listen and be edified. I listened to it yesterday and feel re-focused. Shake out all of the humanism and focus on this; MAY THE LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN, RECEIVE THE REWARD OF HIS SUFFERING!"

Let's discuss this sermon.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=282

Listening now. :)

[grape on the vine]

I listened to the sermon. Outside of the language and delivery, which I take to be a generational gap between the preacher, and me, I have two qualms with it.

One: The preacher makes several references to the idea that one should come to Jesus solely for His glory and because He deserves it, which is a nice sentiment, but Jesus came to give us an easy yoke. The message this preacher (I'm sorry, I don't know his name) gives makes devotion to Jesus very hard to accept. Again, Jesus made it clear that He came to make it easy.

Two: The preacher makes this statement, "If you've ever seen yourself, you'll know that you're never going to be anything else than you were. For in me and my flesh, there's no good thing." This seems to me, to contradict the idea that when anyone is in Christ, he/she is a new creation.

Again, the rest of the disconnect seems to be generational, so I won't worry about that.

Your thoughts?

[Beth O]

I listened to the sermon. Outside of the language and delivery, which I take to be a generational gap between the preacher, and me, I have two qualms with it.

There are no generational gaps when it comes to the Word of God. God's Word never changes. We can learn much from preachers from a different generation. Where there was less worldly distractions. Preachers from a different generation can be difficult to listen to, when a person is use to squishy, entertaining, (dumbed down) sermons. Especially those from this emergent generation, (Rob Bell, Brian McClaren.....)


One: The preacher makes several references to the idea that one should come to Jesus solely for His glory and because He deserves it, which is a nice sentiment, but Jesus came to give us an easy yoke. The message this preacher (I'm sorry, I don't know his name) gives makes devotion to Jesus very hard to accept. Again, Jesus made it clear that He came to make it easy.

Are you sure about this? True that before Christ we were slaves to sin and in Jesus He offers an easy yoke. This doesn't mean our lives will be easy though. We are promised trials and persecution, although we find rest in Jesus.

Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

John 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

Jesus took the punishment for our sins. Isn't that enough reason to follow Him?

MAY THE LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN, RECEIVE THE REWARD OF HIS SUFFERING!"

So why did Jesus come to earth. You say to make it easy? The Bible say's; Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

When Christ comes back His purpose will be judgment. Not so squishy! The lost need to be warned, not made to feel more comfortable.

Here's a project for you. look up in a concordance the word glory and you will see the purpose is always for the glory of God, not man!


Two: The preacher makes this statement, "If you've ever seen yourself, you'll know that you're never going to be anything else than you were. For in me and my flesh, there's no good thing." This seems to me, to contradict the idea that when anyone is in Christ, he/she is a new creation.

Only if a person is born again will they be a new creation. When a person is born again they receive the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately they also are still made of flesh. Paul is the one who said, "For in me and my flesh, there's no good thing." So your problem isn't with this preacher, it's with Paul and the inspired Word of God.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Those in Christ must choose to live by the Spirit. We must fight against the flesh with the power of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 5:16-17 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

[grape on the vine]

There are no generational gaps when it comes to the Word of God. God's Word never changes. We can learn much from preachers from a different generation. Where there was less worldly distractions. Preachers from a different generation can be difficult to listen to, when a person is use to squishy, entertaining, (dumbed down) sermons. Especially those from this emergent generation, (Rob Bell, Brian McClaren.....)
There certainly are generational gaps between someone delivering a message to a congregation 40 plus years ago, and the sermons being delivered today. The "beatnik" reference kinda clinches that one. It's the style, delivery, etc. that I'm more pointing to.
Also, there is nothing "squishy" about the sermons I listen to (mostly Rob Bell- I can't speak to McClaren's messages). They're actually very in depth, very hard lessons and challenges most of the time. None are 'dumbed down'. That tells me that you must not be familiar with the subject that this thread split from. You've misidentified these messages.

Mars Hill (http://www.marshill.org/teaching/index.php) If you're interested in finding out. There's even a Q and A that was just posted with Rob Bell. You might want to check that out.

Are you sure about this? True that before Christ we were slaves to sin and in Jesus He offers an easy yoke. This doesn't mean our lives will be easy though. We are promised trials and persecution, although we find rest in Jesus.
I'm sorry. I should have used a more accurate word. Jesus said that His yoke was light. I mistook this as a synonym for 'easy', but that's not completely true.
You're right, our lives won't be easier. Jesus does promise that. So in that you're correct.
However, His yoke is still lighter, and I don't see this preacher's yoke the same way. Some might, I don't.

Only if a person is born again will they be a new creation. When a person is born again they receive the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately they also are still made of flesh. Paul is the one who said, "For in me and my flesh, there's no good thing." So your problem isn't with this preacher, it's with Paul and the inspired Word of God.

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Those in Christ must choose to live by the Spirit. We must fight against the flesh with the power of the Holy Spirit.
Well, if Paul said it, I guess I won't argue it. However, my major qualm was with the first half of the statement.

"If you've ever seen yourself, you'll know that you're never going to be anything else than you were."

This is not correct. I can tell you for a fact that I'm not the same person I was. Most of my friends are not who they were. When you are in Christ, you're a new creation. These don't seem to line up.

[Beth O]

Well, if Paul said it, I guess I won't argue it. However, my major qualm was with the first half of the statement.

"If you've ever seen yourself, you'll know that you're never going to be anything else than you were."

This is not correct. I can tell you for a fact that I'm not the same person I was. Most of my friends are not who they were. When you are in Christ, you're a new creation. These don't seem to line up.

This is correct re: the flesh. Are you still made of flesh? Do you sin? Only through the power of the Holy Spirit can we do good. That is what the preacher is saying and this is what Paul is saying. Once made a new creation the Spirit within us wars against the flesh. Do you believe that Paul was made a new creation? Below I have copied more of Romans Ch 7. We can see that Paul still struggled against sin and when he says that there is no good in him, he is talking about his flesh. When Pastor Reidhead says, "If you've ever seen yourself, you'll know that you're never going to be anything else than you were." He is also talking about the flesh. Only through the power of the Holy Spirit can we do good.

Romans 7:14-25 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The emergents might be deep in a philosophical kind of way. What they have dumbed down is the gospel of Jesus Christ. They don't want to talk about sin, they don't want to talk about Hell. What do we need to be saved from? The punishment of our own sin. The emergents are more concerned about people having a pleasant time on earth than for them to be eternally secure in Christ.

I have already told you on the other thread. I sat through an entire Rob Bell video. and once I have discerned a false teacher, I no longer listen to what that false teacher has to say any more. There are many Biblically sound teachers I can listen to for my edification. My suggestion for you is to spend less time listening to Rob Bell and more time in the one true Word of God. When Pastors like Paris Reidhead say things that match up with scripture, it won't seem so foreign to you. I will pray that you be rooted in the Word of God.