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View Full Version : Doesn't John 3:5 require baptism for salvation?



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Sing4Him
April 15th, 2009, 10:57 PM
[YOU TUBE VIDEO]GV1k_ckv77M[/YOU TUBE VIDEO]

WarriorOfTheFather
April 15th, 2009, 11:03 PM
I don't get the Video??? :scratch

Is it people just being batized or do you mean we are supposed to be batized?

elpnvn
April 15th, 2009, 11:04 PM
I would because getting baptized is a way of giving public testimony to the fact that you were crucfied with Christ and you have been raised to new life in Christ. When my family went to a Lutheran church(we went from Catholic to Lutheran to Baptist), we had more babies getting baptized than teens/adults. In the Baptist church, I have never heard of/seen a baby getting baptized.. its always people who are old enough to know what they are doing. Why is it that people baptize babies, who don't understand and will never remember it, if baptism symbolizes being new in Christ?

Anthony
April 16th, 2009, 03:00 AM
Elpnvn:

In Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox beliefs to baptize babies (which is usually after about eight days old...depending on the mother, situation, ect but in a time frame of a few weeks) is the belief that if the baby dies before being baptized he/she will enter into purgatory (limbo between heaven and hell). If the baby is baptized and he/she dies than the baby will go to heaven.

I know...weird stuff...but the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox (a break off of Catholicism) are into all that unbiblical ritual stuff.

CJ65
April 16th, 2009, 06:20 AM
I was baptized when I was a baby and also when I was seven in the Catholic church.. but I wasn't saved until last year (age seventeen..). Do y'all have any opinions on what I should do about that? I kind of feel like I've never been baptized for real. The church I go to now is baptist and they dunk people in the water.. wayyy different than the Catholics. Should I get baptized for the third time?


"Just do it." Someone told me, (and I was encouraged by this board) some time ago and that's just what I did. I'd been a believer for a couple of decades before I was baptized by immersion. I've very glad I did.

Read up on it, Jesus set the example; and the Ethiopian in Acts, upon believing insisted on stopping and getting baptized then and there. The Lord wouldn't have included these details if it didn't mean something. I'm no theologian or Bible scholar, it just strikes me now that getting dunked, as you said, is a fine practice.

elpnvn
April 16th, 2009, 08:22 AM
I know...weird stuff...but the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox (a break off of Catholicism) are into all that unbiblical ritual stuff.
That IS weird....I barely remember learning about purgatory and all that. thank you for answering my question, Anthony!



"Just do it." :) I think I am going to...hopefully sometime this summer!! (Or sooner!)

Christina
April 16th, 2009, 08:48 AM
I know the Holy Spirit is everywhere. I don't know why some people think the Holy Spirit in only in church. That's rather shallow to think IMO.
What I did was read the whole New Testament and skipped around the Old. I tried reading from Genesis but it eventually got boring. I have lots of highlights and pencil markings in there so I can refer to it later.
I can honestly say that I know the Bible better than some church going folks. I know because of discussions with co-workers and such. That surprises me still.

The true church is invisible right now (the Body of Christ) and that's the one I wanna be a member of. People repent at home, in the hospital, in prison, etc. We are gonna be mighty surprised at the kind of people it consists of.

YES, you can live a Godly life outside of church because when you're saved, the fruits of the spirit live within your heart.

Church isn't about "oh you're only a true Christian if you go to Church" and I hope nobody got the impression that this is what I was saying. The Church is a place of fellowship and worship and unless you've done the studying and education needed to be a Pastor or teacher, then the guy at the head of the Church doing the teaching knows much more about the Bible then I do just from reading it everyday. Having a Church to attend doesn't make you born again but for the Christian it is a place that we go to learn God's word from someone who has made their life of learning it and studying it, who has been anointed by the Lord to be in that position. I don't know the whole Bible and I can read the Bible every year for the next 20 years (though I doubt the Lord will tarry that long:yeah) and still not understand it all, that's why I would want to seek out a Church so that I can get my meat and potates from someone whom God has given the task of teaching.

I also understand trying to find a sound doctrinal Church, I too am STILL looking but every week I'm onto the next one to see and hear their faith and beliefs but I won't stop searching until I find one. The Bible tells us to congregate and to fellowship and it's only natural that a Christian would seek out those like minded to surround themselves with, I personally can't understand being a true born again believer and be "ok" with not attending Church......not the building but the Christian family within. I was saved at a young age (11 years old) but I didn't understand what was expected from me as a "new creature" and I rebelled....after 25 years God finally stopped me dead in my tracks and gave me one more chance to listen to Him so I sat straight up and now? I couldn't fathom the idea of not having a Church to attend for my meat and potatoes or a place to fellowship with others like me, or a place to sing in worship with others who Love the Lord as I do, as a Christian I would think this is something important for us.

I don't judge anyone, it's not my place to. God speaks to each and everyone of us and will lead each of us in His own way. I didn't mean to give the wrong impression that you're only a true Christian if you attend a Church, I just simply asked allspark a question which he responded to.:hug

Christina
April 16th, 2009, 08:52 AM
As for the church thing...church is the gathering of the people. You can have church in your house just by inviting friends and family over for bible study or to listen to audio sermons. Church isn't about a fancy building with oak pews on Sunday or Wednesday only worship. You can worship or gather people together for fellowship anywhere at anytime. Heck even online. Christianity isn't about odd religious rituals in large dressed up buildings. It's about personal relationship with Christ, and joining with other Christians if one is able too. If that means having church with two Christians (or two Christians and a pastor) on a street corner in Brooklyn than so be it.



Thank you Anthony, you said it better than I did:hug

Sing4Him
April 16th, 2009, 09:49 AM
The video shows that Baptism is an outward example of one's profession of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It shows how once we have come to faith, that our lives have "new Clothes" as we are IN Jesus and indwelled with the Holy Spirit and we walk our lives In Him.. (temptation shown and how with New Clothes or our being indwelled by Him, that we reject it and "walk in the Light as He is the Light")

New Man in Jesus. (New Clothes)

God's Trombone
April 16th, 2009, 10:47 AM
Curious....doesn't that kind of cancel eachother out?:scratch

How can a true Christian never go to Church but still think they're living a Godly life or at least a life that is acceptable to God?

Perhaps there is no suitable church to attend.


Hi Allspark:hug Welcome to RR:hat


If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour then you've been baptized with the Fire of the Holy Spirit! He indwells you still.

John the Baptizer baptized with water, which served (and serves still) as an outward act of Faith. It is inward Baptism by the Holy Spirit that Jesus Christ sent to His believers at Pentecost that is our Seal of salvation in New Testament times.

I believe in water immersion as an outward affirmation of having accepted Jesus. Not having this though is nothing to be ashamed about, IMHO.

I disagree doctrinally/scripturally that the Acts 2 Pentecost "filled with the Spirit" is identical with Paul's "one baptism." I also don't agree doctrinally that there is scriptural affirmation that we should make an "outward affirmation of having accepted Jesus" by being water baptized. Although I have been water baptized myself, both as an infant in RCC and as an adult in a Pentecostal church. It is my current belief that neither were scripturally necessary.


I just recently started attending church again since I was a teenager. There are lots of ways to worship the Lord every day!! Just because you don't (or can't) attend church does not mean you are not living a Godly life (just as, just because you DO attend church, does not mean you ARE leading a Godly life!)

:nod


If you have repented of your sins, and geniunly accepted Christ as your saviour then yes, you are saved...Baptisim doesen't save you, its just a public declaration that you have been saved...Although all Christians should be baptized according to scripture....The thief on the cross was not baptised, but Jesus told him he would be with him in paradice that very day.

Again, as I metioned above, why say "al lChristians should be (water) baptized according to scripture" when Paul's "one baptism" is Spirit baptism?l


<snip>. Baptism is an outward sign of the inward change, and a testimony to those who are present at your baptism. Going to church to worship, learn and fellowship is very important to Christian growth, however, if there are no biblically solid churches in your area there are other ways to grow, learn and fellowship.

I do hope that you will be baptized soon. Baptism is something that our Lord did and is a sign of obedience and following Him.

Again, Jesus Christ gave no injunction to Paul for us to be water baptized. There is "one baptism" i.e., our baptism into Christ by the Spirit.


I don't go to church either. I was baptized many years ago in a church. I moved again and never did find another church. It's hard to find one to really like.
I know the Holy Spirit is everywhere. I don't know why some people think the Holy Spirit in only in church. That's rather shallow to think IMO.
What I did was read the whole New Testament and skipped around the Old. I tried reading from Genesis but it eventually got boring. I have lots of highlights and pencil markings in there so I can refer to it later.
I can honestly say that I know the Bible better than some church going folks. I know because of discussions with co-workers and such. That surprises me still.
I would loved to have had at least one Godly parent when I was growing up but I didn't. I guess that made me an unclean child. Satan spent countless years trying to ruin me, make me miserable. I'm saved now and he still trys too.
The true church is invisible right now (the Body of Christ) and that's the one I wanna be a member of. People repent at home, in the hospital, in prison, etc. We are gonna be mighty surprised at the kind of people it consists of.

YES, you can live a Godly life outside of church because when you're saved, the fruits of the spirit live within your heart.

:thumb


I accepted Christ as My Saviour when I was 7 years old. When I was a teenager, there were some young people in my church that were getting baptized and my pastor said, "why don't you get baptized, all the other young people are."

This was an affront to me (at the time). To get baptized just because others were was not the reason to be baptized . . . . I knew that baptism was the outward sign of in inward conversion, but this just made me resist being baptized and I didn't get baptized.

In the mid 1980's (I was 23 at the time) I went on a trip to Israel. My pastor and a few others hooked up with a tour of Seventh Day Adventists (another story in itself . . . no, my pastor or the group I was with did not subscribe to the SDA beliefs, they had room on their tour as a good price.)

When we got to Tiberius, I was looking over the itinerary and saw that we would be going to a place for baptisms on the Jordan River and I heard a question in my head, "Any more excuses?" I took this to mean that, I was in Israel, we were going to the Jordan (the same river where Jesus was baptized) so, what other excuses did I have?

I was (Praise Jesus) baptized in the Jordan for the first and only time!

I write all this to say that I knew I was saved even though I didn't get baptized until much later. Was my reasoning skewed by my pastor, who, on hindsight, was probably just trying to make it easier for me to be baptized by saying I wouldn't be the only one . . . yes, I believe I was rebellious.

Pray about it - that The Lord will give you the opportunity to be baptized - I look back on that day as the day when I finally said, OK Lord, I give over control to you (not that I haven't take "control" back many times - always turned out really bad!)

Very nice , but does that make water baptism a scriptural requirement according to the teaching Christ gave Paul?


The allspark...the question is; What hinders you from being baptised?


[QUOTE=elpnvn;1186152]I was baptized when I was a baby and also when I was seven in the Catholic church.. but I wasn't saved until last year (age seventeen..). Do y'all have any opinions on what I should do about that? I kind of feel like I've never been baptized for real. The church I go to now is baptist and they dunk people in the water.. wayyy different than the Catholics. Should I get baptized for the third time?

You said you were saved last year. According to the Gospel you received the "one baptism" at that time.


I would because getting baptized is a way of giving public testimony to the fact that you were crucfied with Christ and you have been raised to new life in Christ. :thumb

We are not required by the Gospel to give such a "public testimony" e.g. water baptism.


You can if you want to, but as people have said here already it isn't a true requirement for salvation. :pray to God for forgiveness and accept Jesus is all you need. :hug

:nod :thumb


"Just do it." Someone told me, (and I was encouraged by this board) some time ago and that's just what I did. I'd been a believer for a couple of decades before I was baptized by immersion. I've very glad I did.

Read up on it, Jesus set the example; and the Ethiopian in Acts, upon believing insisted on stopping and getting baptized then and there. The Lord wouldn't have included these details if it didn't mean something. I'm no theologian or Bible scholar, it just strikes me now that getting dunked, as you said, is a fine practice.

[COLOR="red"]If , as you say "Jesus set the example" for US, why did the resurrected Christ give Paul the revelation of the "one baptism" which was not water but Spirit?
Ephesians 4:5[1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
/COLOR]