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View Full Version : Doesn't John 3:5 require baptism for salvation?



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iSong6:3
March 10th, 2011, 05:43 PM
I'm not helping here but all I can find in a quick search is that he was a strong proponant of infant baptism. I haven't read yet where he disavowed the practice. :idunno

LightOfMyLife
March 10th, 2011, 06:35 PM
I am not looking to debate infant or adult baptism but I am looking for your knowledge.

I once read that Luther wrote that infant baptism can give a false sense of security. Does anybody know where that is or how I can find where that is written? I did a google search and I cannot seem to find it.

Thanks! :wave I did a yahoo search on Martin Luther on infant baptism & there are some links. So I suggest you go there because I do not want to put a link on here that shouldn't be. :hug

Acts5:41
March 10th, 2011, 07:26 PM
I'm a Presbyterian.

My pastor told me that personally he preferred to baptize when people got saved, but didn't mind participating in the "ritual" of dedicating one's child to God.

He also said, in his opinion, once was enough; unless the person requested it.

okapi216
March 10th, 2011, 08:54 PM
In the Episcopal and I believe in the Catholic Churches, they will baptise children and then for adulthood they go through confirmation.

The philosophy is in baptism a person receives God's clensing of the orginal sin of Adam and Eve it is the first step in making heaven possible for an individual whether they are conscious of the act or not. Confirmation is usually done at a later age when a person has the capacity to reflect and comprehend the Holy Spirit's role in their life. It is the Spiritual maturity of a person. That does not mean a person's faith does not continue to deepen and grow for it must.

I hope this helps.

Faith&Hope
March 11th, 2011, 06:54 PM
I attend an Assembly Of God church. We have baby dedications by the Pastor who holds the baby, lifts them up in prayer to the Lord giving them to God, while the parents stand next to him. Then he says a prayer over the parents. When the child is old enough to accept salvation through Christ they then can choose on their own to become baptized.A declaration of their salvation. This is full submersion under the water, not a sprinkle on the head.
I find it hard that people actually believe God would send a baby or young child to (purgatory) because they were not baptised. First off there is no such thing as purgatory. Heaven & Hell that's it. Second what if the parents of the child never got the child baptised, is that the childs fault? Age of accountability, differs from each persons maturity, mental state etc. I was born Catholic, baptised as an infant and made my First Communion. At age 15 I accepted the Lord and left the Catholic church. I got baptised at 15 and again just two years ago as I re-dedicated my heart to Jesus. My 18 year old daughter also got baptised with me. We are not saved by baptism (works) we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Just my 2 cents.

Buzzardhut
March 11th, 2011, 07:26 PM
I'm not helping here but all I can find in a quick search is that he was a strong proponant of infant baptism. I haven't read yet where he disavowed the practice. :idunno

http://www.buzzardhut.net/Catho/10.htm

Luther was stuck in many liturgical practices


In the Episcopal and I believe in the Catholic Churches, they will baptise children and then for adulthood they go through confirmation.

The philosophy is in baptism a person receives God's clensing of the orginal sin of Adam and Eve it is the first step in making heaven possible for an individual whether they are conscious of the act or not.

:preach The power's in the blood, not the tub!

http://www.buzzardhut.net/Catho/

cotton
March 16th, 2011, 01:17 PM
Faith and Hope. Catholics did not think an unbaptised baby went to purgatory but to the nicest place in Hell-"Limbo" A place that was not bad, but where one never got to see the full glory of God. They did not think God would send a baby to the place of punishment, but that without baptism the child could not go to Heaven, where purgatory is located (as a place the believer is purified,dressed for the banquet of the wedding feast of the Lamb.) Today Catholics no longer believe in Limbo, but trust the unbaptised baby to the grace and mercy of a loving God.

They, and other believers in Infant baptism believe that baptism is something God does for man, not something man does for God. Since God does baptism as a full, free gift He can do it for an infant as easily as for a 7 year old or an adult. Baptism is viewed as God's adoption of a child. An action that brings the child into the family of God where he is then trained in godly ways and learns to know and love his Father. Loving parents, knowing they can in no way "save" their newborn bring the baby and relinquish him/her fully to God as the adoptive parent that alone can Save. They then are raising God's child in the nuture and admonition of God. Kind of like how Hannah took care of Samuel until he was called to the Temple, She was caring for God's Child. Now Christian people may not think Infant Baptism is correct, but this is how it is thought of in Christian communities where it is thought to be the will of God and a following of Jesus command to go, teach and Baptise all. Part of the thought being that each of us continue to learn about God after our Baptism-the baby just has a little more to learn than others may have to learn.

Buzzardhut
March 16th, 2011, 02:48 PM
Faith and Hope. Catholics did not think an unbaptised baby went to purgatory but to the nicest place in Hell-"Limbo" A place that was not bad, but where one never got to see the full glory of God. They did not think God would send a baby to the place of punishment, but that without baptism the child could not go to Heaven, where purgatory is located (as a place the believer is purified,dressed for the banquet of the wedding feast of the Lamb.) Today Catholics no longer believe in Limbo, but trust the unbaptised baby to the grace and mercy of a loving God.
But where do babies go now now since limbo is out of business? As the new adoptive parent does God let them into heaven? can't see how the water ritual helps them, since God is not pleased with rituals, only faith in His son's blood atonement, not water rites.

Mitsy
March 16th, 2011, 10:36 PM
I am not looking to debate infant or adult baptism but I am looking for your knowledge.

I once read that Luther wrote that infant baptism can give a false sense of security. Does anybody know where that is or how I can find where that is written? I did a google search and I cannot seem to find it.

Thanks!

While I don't know about the Protestant faith in this matter I do know this problem does exist.

It have heard it often said in Eastern Orthodox faith that we are Saved by our infant baptism. I am of Eastern Orthodox background. That is what we were taught in Sunday School. Of cuorse the Church then undermines that with the need to fast and get confession to assure you are Sin free just in case you die. They really are confusing. Nevertheless many in the Eastern Orthodox faith think they are OK if they are Baptised.

It is very important for an infant to be baptised at brith and given a name. This name can be changed later at the official Baptism later. Eastern Orthodox families used to practice the baptism at birth just in case the baby died soon after (nake sure the baby is Saved and can be buried in the cemetry). With infant mortality rates not as high as they used to be in Western Nations it is not adhered to as it was in the past.

Unfortunately in many Eastern Orthodox Churches today they still teach the importance of infant baptism and equate that to salvation. I know many family who think they are right with God because they are baptised and fast and recieve confession regularly. Sad because they know little if anything about Jesus. The gospel message is not really taught clearly or at all in some Eastern Orthodox Churches. They put far too much emphasis on these sorts of religious rituals instead.

Buzzardhut
March 17th, 2011, 05:03 AM
Unfortunately in many Eastern Orthodox Churches today they still teach the importance of infant baptism and equate that to salvation. I know many family who think they are right with God because they are baptised and fast and recieve confession regularly. Sad because they know little if anything about Jesus. The gospel message is not really taught clearly or at all in some Eastern Orthodox Churches. They put far too much emphasis on these sorts of religious rituals instead.They've obviously been duped, the old bait and switch, placing faith in something useless to God while ignoring what's most important to God :doh

:pray