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Not Perfect, But Forgiven
September 28th, 2011, 08:34 PM
To answer the original question succinctly as possibly, yes. We are extremely close, right there, in Heaven's terms. To the eternal God, several years is the same as several thousand years. He is outside of time itself, and yet, can operate in it and effect us in a myriad of ways whenever He choses. While He completely understands our concept of "time," since He gave us the ability to perceive and use it to our benefit, we must realize the eternal scale.

Jesus told the apostle of Revelation that His Return is at the door over a millenium ago. To God, that is the same as yesterday. He is, after all, the Ancient of Days, as one of His many titles. All of Heaven is one eternal day. To us, several months or years is a VERY long time, because we have temporal bodies with temporal minds. Everything about us is extremely mortal. We are even succeptible to death. *GASP!!!* But PRAISE BE TO GOD!! He understands! Jesus Christ endured everything we did, so He fully understands our concept of time. In fact, He invented it. God said about the tribulation that "if those days were not shortened, no flesh would survive." Notice how He refers to the 7 year tribulation as "days." The "days of Noah" (who actually lived hundreds of years.) The bible is full of referenes to God referring to our lives as a blip on the radar of eternity. Our lives are "as a vapor" according to scripture, so first, we must understand that in heavenly terms, our lives start and are over in an extremely short period of time.

While God does not operate according to our times, He does use our times to influence us and the entire universe. Prophecy is an example of this. So, anyone who thinks they know when the Rapture might be is playing a completely futile game of nebulous variables. "Imminent" means nothing is required to precede the rapture, but we are given one clue! He said that when the full number of the Gentiles is in, the Rapture will occur. Seeing as the world is in such a horrible state morally, we can infer that the full number is nearing completion, sort of a co-ocurring phenomenon. However, it is by no means indicative of the Rapture itself. The world has always been messed up since the Fall. We only know that the Rapture will happen in such a time as this. Different parts of the bible refer to various elements that will be present in the world at the time of His return for the Church: high crime, all kinds of sins, moral depravity, extreme violence, advanced technology, etc. All of these things exist now.

Basically, everything is already in place, so if the Rapture occured right now, prophecy would be 100% fulfilled. Knowing the Rapture precedes the tribulation, this gives another problem to those trying to say they know when the Rapture is, becasue there is nothing to indicate it's coming. Everything will be "normal" until the instant of the Rapture, and then complete chaos. The only way I would get nervous is if I flip on the TV and see an unsually charismatic man talking about unifying the world, it's currencies, its religions and creating a utopia of peace on planet earth with people hanging onto his every word. I know he's probably the anti-christ and I'm not supposed to be here to see that, because he can't be revealed until we are gone! Yes he's probably alive, and yes we probably have seen him without even knowing it, BUT we aren't supposed to know YET! I'm content with finding out from the balconies of heaven.

Since only God Almighty knows the exact number of the Gentiles to be saved, and therefore the exact moment of the Rapture down to what will be on each of our mind's individually when it happens, there is no way we will know until we are flying vertically through cloud and sky, ripped from our lives as we know them. We are close, but we won't know until the Rapture just how close. But when it does happen, it will be unmistakable! You know, I need a vacation. 7 years in Heaven followed by 1000 years and then eternity with Jesus sounds great. That's what keeps me going! Knowing that at ANY moment now, all of this life will be left behind forever, and I'll never die, and I'll be with Jesus, THAT is the joy of my salvation! The cares of this life are so tiny from the eternal perspective that I even feel a sense of shame sometimes for catching myself worrying. That's the human condition (besides sin and other things.)

MaranathaLJ
September 28th, 2011, 08:48 PM
The Fig Tree is a great example telling us we would see when His return is near.

1 John 2:18 really jumped out at me "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist is coming,

Won't argue that we should be watching for Jesus and be focused on Him during these perilous times but the subject of Ac has taken off as we see the stage being set in the world. Think it's important to expose him because if people see what he is really about they wont be as deceived.

smendieta
September 28th, 2011, 08:50 PM
To answer the original question succinctly as possibly, yes. We are extremely close, right there, in Heaven's terms. To the eternal God, several years is the same as several thousand years. He is outside of time itself, and yet, can operate in it and effect us in a myriad of ways whenever He choses. While He completely understands our concept of "time," since He gave us the ability to perceive and use it to our benefit, we must realize the eternal scale.

Jesus told the apostle of Revelation that His Return is at the door over a millenium ago. To God, that is the same as yesterday. He is, after all, the Ancient of Days, as one of His many titles. All of Heaven is one eternal day. To us, several months or years is a VERY long time, because we have temporal bodies with temporal minds. Everything about us is extremely mortal. We are even succeptible to death. *GASP!!!* But PRAISE BE TO GOD!! He understands! Jesus Christ endured everything we did, so He fully understands our concept of time. In fact, He invented it. God said about the tribulation that "if those days were not shortened, no flesh would survive." Notice how He refers to the 7 year tribulation as "days." The "days of Noah" (who actually lived hundreds of years.) The bible is full of referenes to God referring to our lives as a blip on the radar of eternity. Our lives are "as a vapor" according to scripture, so first, we must understand that in heavenly terms, our lives start and are over in an extremely short period of time.

While God does not operate according to our times, He does use our times to influence us and the entire universe. Prophecy is an example of this. So, anyone who thinks they know when the Rapture might be is playing a completely futile game of nebulous variables. "Imminent" means nothing is required to precede the rapture, but we are given one clue! He said that when the full number of the Gentiles is in, the Rapture will occur. Seeing as the world is in such a horrible state morally, we can infer that the full number is nearing completion, sort of a co-ocurring phenomenon. However, it is by no means indicative of the Rapture itself. The world has always been messed up since the Fall. We only know that the Rapture will happen in such a time as this. Different parts of the bible refer to various elements that will be present in the world at the time of His return for the Church: high crime, all kinds of sins, moral depravity, extreme violence, advanced technology, etc. All of these things exist now.

Basically, everything is already in place, so if the Rapture occured right now, prophecy would be 100% fulfilled. Knowing the Rapture precedes the tribulation, this gives another problem to those trying to say they know when the Rapture is, becasue there is nothing to indicate it's coming. Everything will be "normal" until the instant of the Rapture, and then complete chaos. The only way I would get nervous is if I flip on the TV and see an unsually charismatic man talking about unifying the world, it's currencies, its religions and creating a utopia of peace on planet earth with people hanging onto his every word. I know he's probably the anti-christ and I'm not supposed to be here to see that, because he can't be revealed until we are gone! Yes he's probably alive, and yes we probably have seen him without even knowing it, BUT we aren't supposed to know YET! I'm content with finding out from the balconies of heaven.

Since only God Almighty knows the exact number of the Gentiles to be saved, and therefore the exact moment of the Rapture down to what will be on each of our mind's individually when it happens, there is no way we will know until we are flying vertically through cloud and sky, ripped from our lives as we know them. We are close, but we won't know until the Rapture just how close. But when it does happen, it will be unmistakable! You know, I need a vacation. 7 years in Heaven followed by 1000 years and then eternity with Jesus sounds great. That's what keeps me going! Knowing that at ANY moment now, all of this life will be left behind forever, and I'll never die, and I'll be with Jesus, THAT is the joy of my salvation! The cares of this life are so tiny from the eternal perspective that I even feel a sense of shame sometimes for catching myself worrying. That's the human condition (besides sin and other things.)

Great Post!!!

jn31675
September 28th, 2011, 10:05 PM
momoffaith, that is the point, to share Jesus and to have more of an urgency about sharing our faith with the world. In Tim Lahayes commentary of Revelation he said that is why the beginning church was so effective, because they believed Jesus was coming for them any moment and they were vigorous about spreading the good news to others. I dont know about others but for me that is the kicker. I have to have been in the word and have had my prayer time in asking the Lord to help me otherwise I will be of no use. Case in point the other day I was coming out of Target with my youngest son and a nice looking lady came up to me and asked me how I thought about the state of the world today and if I thought it was going to get better. For all the learning I have been doing regarding the end times you would think I would be the right person to ask that too. I TOTALLY blew it though. I hadnt been in the bible the last few days and I hadnt gotten my quiet time in either. I was so crabby that day and I didnt want to talk to a stranger so I blew her off. She handed me a pamphlet that I started reading later and saw she was a Jehovah Witness. I felt so bad. I blew an open opportunity and felt so guilty about it afterwards. So I just have to learn from it and move on and pray that I will run into her again and the Lord will give me words to witness to her. We need to be in the word and prayed up every day because an opportunity might come to us when we least expect it!

$teve
September 29th, 2011, 03:31 AM
To answer the original question succinctly as possibly, yes. We are extremely close, right there, in Heaven's terms. To the eternal God, several years is the same as several thousand years. He is outside of time itself, and yet, can operate in it and effect us in a myriad of ways whenever He choses. While He completely understands our concept of "time," since He gave us the ability to perceive and use it to our benefit, we must realize the eternal scale.

Jesus told the apostle of Revelation that His Return is at the door over a millenium ago. To God, that is the same as yesterday. He is, after all, the Ancient of Days, as one of His many titles. All of Heaven is one eternal day. To us, several months or years is a VERY long time, because we have temporal bodies with temporal minds. Everything about us is extremely mortal. We are even succeptible to death. *GASP!!!* But PRAISE BE TO GOD!! He understands! Jesus Christ endured everything we did, so He fully understands our concept of time. In fact, He invented it. God said about the tribulation that "if those days were not shortened, no flesh would survive." Notice how He refers to the 7 year tribulation as "days." The "days of Noah" (who actually lived hundreds of years.) The bible is full of referenes to God referring to our lives as a blip on the radar of eternity. Our lives are "as a vapor" according to scripture, so first, we must understand that in heavenly terms, our lives start and are over in an extremely short period of time.

While God does not operate according to our times, He does use our times to influence us and the entire universe. Prophecy is an example of this. So, anyone who thinks they know when the Rapture might be is playing a completely futile game of nebulous variables. "Imminent" means nothing is required to precede the rapture, but we are given one clue! He said that when the full number of the Gentiles is in, the Rapture will occur. Seeing as the world is in such a horrible state morally, we can infer that the full number is nearing completion, sort of a co-ocurring phenomenon. However, it is by no means indicative of the Rapture itself. The world has always been messed up since the Fall. We only know that the Rapture will happen in such a time as this. Different parts of the bible refer to various elements that will be present in the world at the time of His return for the Church: high crime, all kinds of sins, moral depravity, extreme violence, advanced technology, etc. All of these things exist now.

Basically, everything is already in place, so if the Rapture occured right now, prophecy would be 100% fulfilled. Knowing the Rapture precedes the tribulation, this gives another problem to those trying to say they know when the Rapture is, becasue there is nothing to indicate it's coming. Everything will be "normal" until the instant of the Rapture, and then complete chaos. The only way I would get nervous is if I flip on the TV and see an unsually charismatic man talking about unifying the world, it's currencies, its religions and creating a utopia of peace on planet earth with people hanging onto his every word. I know he's probably the anti-christ and I'm not supposed to be here to see that, because he can't be revealed until we are gone! Yes he's probably alive, and yes we probably have seen him without even knowing it, BUT we aren't supposed to know YET! I'm content with finding out from the balconies of heaven.

Since only God Almighty knows the exact number of the Gentiles to be saved, and therefore the exact moment of the Rapture down to what will be on each of our mind's individually when it happens, there is no way we will know until we are flying vertically through cloud and sky, ripped from our lives as we know them. We are close, but we won't know until the Rapture just how close. But when it does happen, it will be unmistakable! You know, I need a vacation. 7 years in Heaven followed by 1000 years and then eternity with Jesus sounds great. That's what keeps me going! Knowing that at ANY moment now, all of this life will be left behind forever, and I'll never die, and I'll be with Jesus, THAT is the joy of my salvation! The cares of this life are so tiny from the eternal perspective that I even feel a sense of shame sometimes for catching myself worrying. That's the human condition (besides sin and other things.)

It's a well articulated post, something that may be taught in the halls of a theological seminary, but I contend that this is not really biblical.

I refer to a couple of important passages of scriptures, among others, that as believers looking for the Lord, can know when the season is approaching though we don't know the day or hour:


Luke 21: 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


Matthew 24: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.


Matthew 34: 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

The simple unambiguous word of God.

gradywhite
September 29th, 2011, 08:25 AM
momoffaith, that is the point, to share Jesus and to have more of an urgency about sharing our faith with the world. In Tim Lahayes commentary of Revelation he said that is why the beginning church was so effective, because they believed Jesus was coming for them any moment and they were vigorous about spreading the good news to others. I dont know about others but for me that is the kicker. I have to have been in the word and have had my prayer time in asking the Lord to help me otherwise I will be of no use. Case in point the other day I was coming out of Target with my youngest son and a nice looking lady came up to me and asked me how I thought about the state of the world today and if I thought it was going to get better. For all the learning I have been doing regarding the end times you would think I would be the right person to ask that too. I TOTALLY blew it though. I hadnt been in the bible the last few days and I hadnt gotten my quiet time in either. I was so crabby that day and I didnt want to talk to a stranger so I blew her off. She handed me a pamphlet that I started reading later and saw she was a Jehovah Witness. I felt so bad. I blew an open opportunity and felt so guilty about it afterwards. So I just have to learn from it and move on and pray that I will run into her again and the Lord will give me words to witness to her. We need to be in the word and prayed up every day because an opportunity might come to us when we least expect it!

While reading your post, I got to the part about her asking you if the world would get any better. I said to myself, "she must be speaking to a JW." That's the exact line they used on me. I was about to start off on 'well no, it's gonna get worse', then she said something about "do you think we will ever be able to get rid of prisons?". I said yeah, after they are all burning in hell. Not to subtle, I guess.
She gave me a track and went on her way.
And, as far as you "blowing it", you should see me when I try to witness. If I had a cherry stem in my mouth, it would sure have atleast 2 knots in it, when I spit it out.

golden mean
September 29th, 2011, 09:12 AM
I look at it this way, we are commanded to know when the tribulation is at the door in Matthew 24. We know the rapture happens sometime before the tribulation, but not exactly how much before.

From the looks of it, the war of Gog and Magog could happen in a year or less. Perhaps it is only a few months away. This war will precipitate the 7 year peace agreement that marks the beginning of the tribulation. Therefore, there is no way to be unaware that the rapture is near unless one chooses to be willfully ignorant. The signs are all in place. In fact, I believe the fascination with the rapture, even in secular society, is an indication that it must certainly be imminent. The Lord is making it clear, even to unbelievers, that something is going to happen and soon!

I've given this a lot of thought lately, what is it that triggers the rapture? What is the delay? How long before the tribulation starts will the rapture happen? It starts with the meaning of the word "Harpazo". All sources I have ever heard or read say it means: to seize; to carry off by force or to snatch out or away. I have also heard it is used in the context of snatching out of harms way. If it does indeed mean to snatch away quickly, out of harms way, what danger to us would cause the Lord to carry us off in this manner?

My conclusion is that the Wrath of God, which the church is not subject too, is the only danger that would cause the Lord to remove the church suddenly from the entire world. Christians have been persecuted and died ever since our Savior was crucified, so it's not human hatred for Christ and the danger it subjects the church to that causes the rapture. It can only be the Wrath of God, that is so terrible, that would cause the Lord to send our Bridegroom to snatch us away and out of danger.

Being merciful and wanting as many people as possible to believe and be saved before the rapture happens, the Lord is likely to wait until the last possible moment. I don't see the rapture happening years, months or weeks before the tribulation starts. Rather, I think because of the Lord's lovingkindness, that He would wait until mere days, hours or even minutes before snatching us away, leaving Him free to vent His full wrath on an unbelieving mankind.

These are just my thoughts but one thing is for certain, the Holy Spirit wouldn't be at work in so many Bible believing Christians lives letting us know the time is near, unless the time was truly near, even at the door!




Excellent! Thank you:hug

OtherSideOfTheBoat
September 29th, 2011, 12:52 PM
1 Thessalonians 5:3 says, "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." They are sure saying that a lot RIGHT now in the UN with even the US selling Israel down the road yesterday by voting YES to send the PA statehood matter to the admissions committee. The US is asking Israel to give over up half their land, half their capital and their holiest sites. It demands Israel foresake its defence. Never before has the US taken such an anti-Semitic view or expressed such hatred towards the Jews. America IS the gatekeeper which is now opening up God's holy land to attack from multiple enemies.

ithacagurl
September 29th, 2011, 04:22 PM
To answer the original question succinctly as possibly, yes. We are extremely close, right there, in Heaven's terms. To the eternal God, several years is the same as several thousand years. He is outside of time itself, and yet, can operate in it and effect us in a myriad of ways whenever He choses. While He completely understands our concept of "time," since He gave us the ability to perceive and use it to our benefit, we must realize the eternal scale.

Jesus told the apostle of Revelation that His Return is at the door over a millenium ago. To God, that is the same as yesterday. He is, after all, the Ancient of Days, as one of His many titles. All of Heaven is one eternal day. To us, several months or years is a VERY long time, because we have temporal bodies with temporal minds. Everything about us is extremely mortal. We are even succeptible to death. *GASP!!!* But PRAISE BE TO GOD!! He understands! Jesus Christ endured everything we did, so He fully understands our concept of time. In fact, He invented it. God said about the tribulation that "if those days were not shortened, no flesh would survive." Notice how He refers to the 7 year tribulation as "days." The "days of Noah" (who actually lived hundreds of years.) The bible is full of referenes to God referring to our lives as a blip on the radar of eternity. Our lives are "as a vapor" according to scripture, so first, we must understand that in heavenly terms, our lives start and are over in an extremely short period of time.

While God does not operate according to our times, He does use our times to influence us and the entire universe. Prophecy is an example of this. So, anyone who thinks they know when the Rapture might be is playing a completely futile game of nebulous variables. "Imminent" means nothing is required to precede the rapture, but we are given one clue! He said that when the full number of the Gentiles is in, the Rapture will occur. Seeing as the world is in such a horrible state morally, we can infer that the full number is nearing completion, sort of a co-ocurring phenomenon. However, it is by no means indicative of the Rapture itself. The world has always been messed up since the Fall. We only know that the Rapture will happen in such a time as this. Different parts of the bible refer to various elements that will be present in the world at the time of His return for the Church: high crime, all kinds of sins, moral depravity, extreme violence, advanced technology, etc. All of these things exist now.

Basically, everything is already in place, so if the Rapture occured right now, prophecy would be 100% fulfilled. Knowing the Rapture precedes the tribulation, this gives another problem to those trying to say they know when the Rapture is, becasue there is nothing to indicate it's coming. Everything will be "normal" until the instant of the Rapture, and then complete chaos. The only way I would get nervous is if I flip on the TV and see an unsually charismatic man talking about unifying the world, it's currencies, its religions and creating a utopia of peace on planet earth with people hanging onto his every word. I know he's probably the anti-christ and I'm not supposed to be here to see that, because he can't be revealed until we are gone! Yes he's probably alive, and yes we probably have seen him without even knowing it, BUT we aren't supposed to know YET! I'm content with finding out from the balconies of heaven.

Since only God Almighty knows the exact number of the Gentiles to be saved, and therefore the exact moment of the Rapture down to what will be on each of our mind's individually when it happens, there is no way we will know until we are flying vertically through cloud and sky, ripped from our lives as we know them. We are close, but we won't know until the Rapture just how close. But when it does happen, it will be unmistakable! You know, I need a vacation. 7 years in Heaven followed by 1000 years and then eternity with Jesus sounds great. That's what keeps me going! Knowing that at ANY moment now, all of this life will be left behind forever, and I'll never die, and I'll be with Jesus, THAT is the joy of my salvation! The cares of this life are so tiny from the eternal perspective that I even feel a sense of shame sometimes for catching myself worrying. That's the human condition (besides sin and other things.)

^^^^ This!!! Everything you said. May God be praised.

ronbo477
September 29th, 2011, 04:25 PM
Disagree that the I am at the door is the end of the tribulation. Reason all believers will know the exact date of the 2nd coming. It is laid out to the exact day in the Bible. You do not have to discern the times. Instead you need to know how to count days. This is the way I interupt it.