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LaMontre
May 24th, 2007, 04:18 PM
Jesus was in flesh form and the father was Jesus's theophany (his perfect spirit) which gave Jesus a gateway to understand what his purpose was.

You cannot produce a scripture to support this. It sounds more like a new ager's statement than a Christians.


Just like us when we understand through revelation the Word of God we are hearing from our theophany because we are still in flesh. If you read the bible we have a theophany waiting for us, just like when Jesus was in flesh had his theophany (father) waiting for him. That doesn't make us two persons but when we hear (revelation) from our theophany it gives us guidance and understanding of who we are and what our purpose is.

I hear from God, through his word. From this statement, I cannot be sure who your hearing from?


This was the relationship between the Jesus and him hearing from the Father (his theophany). But of course the difference between our theophanies and Christ's is that he was perfect.

To be honest no man can intellectually understand the great mystries of God, but through prayer and revelation they can be made known to us. You can't give someone a revelation. They have to experience it for themselves.

John 14: 8-10 (King James Version)
8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

These verses support my contention, not yours. They say that Jesus AND the Father (two persons) are one.

-GodsLove-
May 24th, 2007, 04:20 PM
I didn't say God is three different people. I said God is three persons. There is a distinction in those two words.

How can a husband and wife be "one flesh" when they are still obviously two people?

The answer is that there is more to it than our limited human understanding can comprehend.

God is One and Three, at the same time. There's a fancy term for it: hypostatic union.



So, you're "oneness" then? I disagree with this because Jesus said He went to be with the Father and He was sending someone else to comfort us until He returns. The Father is in Heaven, the Son (Jesus) at His right hand and the Holy Spirit dwells in the temples (us). That's what the Bible says. So, any understanding of "manifestations" that contradicts the Bible, is wrong.

Im not a oneness as far as the denomination. I don't belong to a denomination, but I am a monotheistic believer.

Monotheistic:the doctrine or belief that there is but one God

Even psychology will tell you that a person who has three different personalities is crazy. Gods not crazy.

Personality: the quality or state of being a person

Person: the body of a human being;

When you said you believe in three different persons not people. Both people and person have the same definition.

-GodsLove-
May 24th, 2007, 04:29 PM
You cannot produce a scripture to support this. It sounds more like a new ager's statement than a Christians.



I hear from God, through his word. From this statement, I cannot be sure who your hearing from?



These verses support my contention, not yours. They say that Jesus AND the Father (two persons) are one.


God manifested himself in three different attributes: God the Father- as pilliar of fire leading children out of Egypt. Second time he manifested himself in flesh to be like us. Now he is manifested in us as the Holy Spirit. What makes this easy revelation difficult is when Jesus begans to refer to the Father. The only time God was flesh was when He was Jesus. He was never flesh in the Father or Holy Spirit. Since he was flesh he had to rely upon his theophany to help him become that sacrifice which is where the father comes in. The Father is just the title for his theophany. But it confuses us because we look at the word "father" carnally.

Tamara224
May 24th, 2007, 04:32 PM
Im not a oneness as far as the denomination. I don't belong to a denomination, but I am a monotheistic believer.

Monotheistic:the doctrine or belief that there is but one God

Even psychology will tell you that a person who has three different personalities is crazy. Gods not crazy.

Personality: the quality or state of being a person

Person: the body of a human being;

When you said you believe in three different persons not people. Both people and person have the same definition.


All trinitarians are monotheistic as well.

Psychology is a human understanding... it tells us nothing about God.

People and person have the same definition in some things... but in this area of theology, the distinction between the two words has long been in place.

In other areas as well, the word 'person' has many different meanings. For example, in legal concepts a corporation can be a 'person'.

But, obviously, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. What bothers me is that you seem unwilling to stop building strawmen. You also seem intent on convincing others that they believe something they don't actually believe. I know why I believe in the Trinity and I know what that means. Until you can discuss this without telling me I don't believe what I say I do or that I believe something I don't... we won't get anywhere. And furthermore, I'm done with this conversation because I am beginning to believe you have another motive.

So, research it more, find out what the Trinity really is. But I'm outa here. :wave

LaMontre
May 24th, 2007, 04:34 PM
God manifested himself in three different attributes: God the Father- as pilliar of fire leading children out of Egypt. Second time he manifested himself in flesh to be like us. Now he is manifested in us as the Holy Spirit. What makes this easy revelation difficult is when Jesus begans to refer to the Father. The only time God was flesh was when He was Jesus. He was never flesh in the Father or Holy Spirit. Since he was flesh he had to rely upon his theophany to help him become that sacrifice which is where the father comes in. The Father is just the title for his theophany. But it confuses us because we look at the word "father" carnally.

Sorry but this contradicts the very scripture you quoted. I mean, you either believe scripture or you believe something else;


10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Jesus was not the Father, the Father was in Him. This is clear.

-GodsLove-
May 24th, 2007, 04:41 PM
Sorry but this contradicts the very scripture you quoted. I mean, you either believe scripture or you believe something else;



Jesus was not the Father, the Father was in Him. This is clear.


Theophany: a visible manifestation of a deity

Deity: god; supreme being

In other words theophany means, the visible manifestation of God. Which is Christ.

You say theophany is a new age statement, than so is trinity.

The difference is the definition of theopany fits the Bible's claims perfect.

Neither of the exact words are in the Bible, but the trinity doesn't agree with the Bible.

Trinity: the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead; group of three closely related persons or things

As I said before God is not three different people.

LaMontre
May 24th, 2007, 04:49 PM
Theophany: a visible manifestation of a deity

Deity: god; supreme being

In other words theophany means, the visible manifestation of God. Which is Christ.

I can accept that, but I cannot see how that gets us any closer to supporting your contentions in this thread.


Neither of the exact words are in the Bible, but the trinity doesn't agree with the Bible.

In your opinion. Again, lets keep this in context. I believe I have shown with scriptural support from your own posts, that the bible indeed does illustrate the trinitarian view of God.


You say theophany is a new age statement, than so is trinity.

I said no such thing, I said a particular statement sounded new age, and it does.

I am aware of of what a theophany is.

You seem to need to put words in peoples mouths?

-GodsLove-
May 24th, 2007, 04:53 PM
I can accept that, but I cannot see how that gets us any closer to supporting your contentions in this thread.



In your opinion. Again, lets keep this in context. I believe I have shown with scriptural support from your own posts, that the bible indeed does illustrate the trinitarian view of God.



I said no such thing, I said a particular statement sounded new age, and it does.

I am aware of of what a theophany is.

You seem to need to put words in peoples mouths?

Im sorry I though thats what you meant about "new age". True God worked in three different areas, but he wasn't three different people. It was three different manifestations, so wouldn't that make the Trinity definition wrong?

LaMontre
May 24th, 2007, 04:57 PM
Im sorry I though thats what you meant about "new age". True God worked in three different areas, but he wasn't three different people. It was three different manifestations, so wouldn't that make the Trinity definition wrong?

Again, this is your opinion. How can I reply....where is your support?

I mean, I can say God was a frog until he was kissed by a beautiful princess, but it doesn't mean anything without some kind of authority, outside my own opinion, to support it.

-GodsLove-
May 24th, 2007, 05:01 PM
Again, this is your opinion. How can I reply....where is your support?

I mean, I can say God was a frog until he was kissed by a beautiful princess, but it doesn't mean anything without some kind of authority, outside my own opinion, to support it.


When God was in the manifestation of the Father he was never a person. Everytime he spoke to Abraham, Job, or whoever it was he was never a person. Now we don't see the Holy Spirit walking around as a person. The only time God was a person was when He was in Jesus Christ. So than that would mess the trinity all up.