Tithing, holding back the Church????

[Kknight]

I have no idea...I'm not familiar with "Word of Faith" teaching and have never been to a WOF church. :idunno

Just to clarify though, I'm not saying to be ridiculous about this. I'm not saying that if you have an income of $1,000 that you should write a $5,000 check "on faith." I'm also not saying to give money that you don't have (i.e. writing a "hot" check to your church.)

I'm saying to prayerfully consider what God would have you commit to and then to give that first as soon as you get paid...rather than sending off all the bills and then figuring out what you have left over.

[Comfort me]

I have no idea...I'm not familiar with "Word of Faith" teaching and have never been to a WOF church. :idunno

You are telling people that if they give the church so much money that they will be blessed. That is not necessarily true. The Lord only promises everlasting life if you accept the gift of salvation. The concept of tithing has been twisted so badly by man seeking his own will that some of these pastors should be ashamed. I almost lost everything following a misguided shepard and he said if I did what he said then God would meet all my needs. That is not true. You have to have discernment and know what is right and what is wrong considering the circumstances. WOF is basically a teaching that if you do certain things you can control God. That he is obligated to meet certain demands. God is obligated to no man. Man does not control God but WOF believes that man can dictate God's actions. That is very wrong and a lot of churches utilize this thinking when it pertains to the tithe. I'm not telling people what to do but I do understand what Paul said to the Corinthians.

[denny272]

Romans 14:1-12
This verse admonishes me to not judge you for whatever you do or don't do, whether you tithe 10% or give according to what you set aside, first fruits or whatever is left over after the bills and grocery that you can Joyfully give etc.......:hug

However, it also states that Jesus will judge what is "right". Not me.:ohno

My families understanding of scripture is that tithing the first fruits 10% is an old law established in the OT. The purpose of the tithe was to distribute the saved FOOD from the storehouse when the land was in famine.
There is no Temple in Israel currently, there is no storehouse at the Temple, and that law was fulfilled to completion when Jesus died and was resurected.

Our family accepts the New Covenant of Jesus Christ. We are under Grace by faith that we are no longer under the old law and we give according to the NT standards put forth by Paul.
It is my understanding of scripture that grace is all or nothing. Paul speaks over and over about not "mixing" old law with Grace. It can not be done. You must choose law or grace.

The Church is not, or rather I should say should not, be a business and should never be treated as such.

Your family should do whatever you feel led is scripturally correct.:nod

[LaMontre]

You are telling people that if they give the church so much money that they will be blessed. That is not necessarily true....I'm not telling people what to do but I do understand what Paul said to the Corinthians.

Well, there is good support for the contention that you will be blessed in equal measure to what you give:

2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

These are good new testament scriptures that teach our motivations in giving. God has not left us without reward in this life for sacrificial giving.

However, this does not mean, in any capacity, that we are required to give the old testament tithe. Nor does it mean we wont be blessed if we choose not to give, or simply do not feel comfortable (on "any given sunday") by giving.

Phi 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Now many have used this scripture to say (as someone else seemed to allude) that you must give because God promised to provide for your need. The problem with this is that I have seen people with great needs (some of which they brought upon themselvs admittedly) give away Gods provision. This is the problem. If the church is guilting people into giving, and succeeding, then they may be making God a liar, by causing many to question such promises.

The whole crux of the matter is to live at peace. And you can't do that if your bills aren't paid, or if your wondering how your going to pay them because you have first given more than you felt comfortable with to the church.

[Comfort me]

Well, there is good support for the contention that you will be blessed in equal measure to what you give:

2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

These are good new testament scriptures that teach our motivations in giving. God has not left us without reward in this life for sacrificial giving.

However, this does not mean, in any capacity, that we are required to give the old testament tithe. Nor does it mean we wont be blessed if we choose not to give, or simply do not feel comfortable (on "any given sunday") by giving.

Phi 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Now many have used this scripture to say (as someone else seemed to allude) that you must give because God promised to provide for your need. The problem with this is that I have seen people with great needs (some of which they brought upon themselvs admittedly) give away Gods provision. This is the problem. If the church is guilting people into giving, and succeeding, then they may be making God a liar, by causing many to question such promises.

The whole crux of the matter is to live at peace. And you can't do that if your bills aren't paid, or if your wondering how your going to pay them because you have first given more than you felt comfortable with to the church.

I agree the Lord will bless you but not always in wealth. I'm not trying to convince people not to tithe. They should do it because they want to and not because some pastor is pressuring them.

[denny272]

Well, there is good support for the contention that you will be blessed in equal measure to what you give:

2Co 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.

Luk 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

These are good new testament scriptures that teach our motivations in giving. God has not left us without reward in this life for sacrificial giving.

However, this does not mean, in any capacity, that we are required to give the old testament tithe. Nor does it mean we wont be blessed if we choose not to give, or simply do not feel comfortable (on "any given sunday") by giving.

Phi 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Now many have used this scripture to say (as someone else seemed to allude) that you must give because God promised to provide for your need. The problem with this is that I have seen people with great needs (some of which they brought upon themselvs admittedly) give away Gods provision. This is the problem. If the church is guilting people into giving, and succeeding, then they may be making God a liar, by causing many to question such promises.

The whole crux of the matter is to live at peace. And you can't do that if your bills aren't paid, or if your wondering how your going to pay them because you have first given more than you felt comfortable with to the church.

:thumb I agree with what you are saying.:nod I believe there is no "set amount...10%" from which you must give and I also believe that if you give with motivation to get more, then you're out of luck. Your motivation must be pure and cheerful giving and then God promises to supply all of your needs.

[LaMontre]

I agree the Lord will bless you but not always in wealth.

Good point. :thumb

[LaMontre]

:thumb I agree with what you are saying.:nod I believe there is no "set amount...10%"

Mar 12:41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
Mar 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
Mar 12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
Mar 12:44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

Uh oh, another wrinkle! :heh

[Kknight]

You are telling people that if they give the church so much money that they will be blessed. That is not necessarily true. The Lord only promises everlasting life if you accept the gift of salvation. The concept of tithing has been twisted so badly by man seeking his own will that some of these pastors should be ashamed. I almost lost everything following a misguided shepard and he said if I did what he said then God would meet all my needs. That is not true. You have to have discernment and know what is right and what is wrong considering the circumstances. WOF is basically a teaching that if you do certain things you can control God. That he is obligated to meet certain demands. God is obligated to no man. Man does not control God but WOF believes that man can dictate God's actions. That is very wrong and a lot of churches utilize this thinking when it pertains to the tithe. I'm not telling people what to do but I do understand what Paul said to the Corinthians.

I completely agree with all of this...again, there is no argument here. I'm not saying to give a certain amount to be blessed. I used some percentages and numbers in my example, but they were just examples...and I qualified my statement by saying to "prayerfully consider what God would have you give."

In regards to the WOF stuff, thank you for explaining that to me. I do not believe that I can "control God." I do however believe that God keeps his promises...and as pointed out by one of the other posters there are many.

[Kknight]

Your family should do whatever you feel led is scripturally correct.:nod

Once again I agree and this is what I said that I do...and what I suggested that others do.