Israel’s Invasion Of Canaan

[SumSam]

I was reading up on historical accounts of the Armenian Genocide during the waning years of the Ottoman empire. I got to reading some articles that talked about genocide in the Bible and how it would be unacceptable by today's moral and ethical standards. Among the examples toted out:

- The destruction of 99% percent of the world population in the Great Flood.
- The killing of the first born of Egypt
- The destruction of the Canaanites
- The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah
- The killing of Achan and his family in the book of Joshua

Whereas we know that God is a just God and His will and judgements are perfect, how do we we convey this to non-Christians? I confess I myself have struggled with understanding the last mentioned incident - Achan and his children were all killed for Achan's theft.

I came across this article (http://www.angelfire.com/journal/bibleissues/israel/canaan.htm) that argues that Israel's invasion of Canaan did not result in genocide, since God's commanded the children of Israel to detroy the Canaanite cities and all within them - in a time and age when 90% of the population lived in the countryside. Therefore God commanded Israel to destroy the Canaanite leadership and nobility living in the cities and to drive the remaining Canaanites out of their lands into neighboring lands where they would become minorities and forced to change their evil ways.

What you folks out here on RR think? These issues are usually not discussed in websites or on Christian TV channels, where I usually look for insights into these things.

[HeIsEnough]

I was reading up on historical accounts of the Armenian Genocide during the waning years of the Ottoman empire. I got to reading some articles that talked about genocide in the Bible and how it would be unacceptable by today's moral and ethical standards. Among the examples toted out:

- The destruction of 99% percent of the world population in the Great Flood.
- The killing of the first born of Egypt
- The destruction of the Canaanites
- The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah
- The killing of Achan and his family in the book of Joshua

Whereas we know that God is a just God and His will and judgements are perfect, how do we we convey this to non-Christians? I confess I myself have struggled with understanding the last mentioned incident - Achan and his children were all killed for Achan's theft.

I came across this article (http://www.angelfire.com/journal/bibleissues/israel/canaan.htm) that argues that Israel's invasion of Canaan did not result in genocide, since God's commanded the children of Israel to detroy the Canaanite cities and all within them - in a time and age when 90% of the population lived in the countryside. Therefore God commanded Israel to destroy the Canaanite leadership and nobility living in the cities and to drive the remaining Canaanites out of their lands into neighboring lands where they would become minorities and forced to change their evil ways.

What you folks out here on RR think? These issues are usually not discussed in websites or on Christian TV channels, where I usually look for insights into these things.

Look at it this way. The age to come, the one we look forward to, will be completely purged of the vile, the immoral and the unrepentant.

What is God trying to say?

Israel, in history, is a forerunner of what is to come. God taking a people for Himself, inviting any who would come with Him, purging the rest. It is easy for me to understand it in this context. Conveying that to another, is a different matter. I suppose it would depend greatly on the conversation at the moment.

[LaMontre]

I was reading up on historical accounts of the Armenian Genocide during the waning years of the Ottoman empire. I got to reading some articles that talked about genocide in the Bible and how it would be unacceptable by today's moral and ethical standards. Among the examples toted out:

- The destruction of 99% percent of the world population in the Great Flood.
- The killing of the first born of Egypt
- The destruction of the Canaanites
- The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah
- The killing of Achan and his family in the book of Joshua

Whereas we know that God is a just God and His will and judgements are perfect, how do we we convey this to non-Christians? I confess I myself have struggled with understanding the last mentioned incident - Achan and his children were all killed for Achan's theft.

I came across this article (http://www.angelfire.com/journal/bibleissues/israel/canaan.htm) that argues that Israel's invasion of Canaan did not result in genocide, since God's commanded the children of Israel to detroy the Canaanite cities and all within them - in a time and age when 90% of the population lived in the countryside. Therefore God commanded Israel to destroy the Canaanite leadership and nobility living in the cities and to drive the remaining Canaanites out of their lands into neighboring lands where they would become minorities and forced to change their evil ways.

What you folks out here on RR think? These issues are usually not discussed in websites or on Christian TV channels, where I usually look for insights into these things.

In the politically correct world we live in (where for instance, forcing a convicted felon to work is considered inhumane), it is of course difficult to justify the killing of anyone "just because God said so".

But what we aren't told in the bible, and what is often not mentioned by them that object to the invasion, is the truly evil practices of the societies which were in Canaan at the time. Child sacrifice was rampant. It was an evil culture which needed to be stopped, or at least curtailed. Surely the general population was not contented with such an evil rulership.

And I think "curtailed" is the best word to describe what was done. There is no indication, as you have pointed out, that every person in every town was destroyed. Only specifically targeted cities. So the term "genocide" doesn't fit.

It was indeed an invasion, but this was common in that time.

I think that people will always desire to bring God down a notch or two by implying that he has done things in the past, or allowed things to happen, that place his character into question, but it is only because they do not know him. And if they really believed in God, and what they were saying about him, they would fear him too much to speak out against him anyway. It is nothing but another way for them to "hold back the truth in unrighteouness".

[matt]

Also, we need to concider the point that the invasion of Cannan was the only example of a justified Holy War in the Bible - where the Israelites were authorized by God to wipe everybody out.

This was because of the disgusting practises of those living in those places but also for other reasons.

Firstly, it was the will of God. The LORD, told them to do it.

Secondly, because God was intent upon protecting the integrity of the Israelites. When they came out of Eygpt and were about to take the land, at this point God knew that if they were to settle in the land without cleansing it first, there would be constant turmoil and danger for the Israelite nation.

It would also mean that the seperate tribes could not go out and take possession of their individual territories because of regional conflict and opposition there.

It was also ordered for a spiritual/religious reason. God commanded in the Old Testament that The Jews should not marry outside their race, but should inter-marry to protect themselves and preserve their religious beliefs. To do so would mean inevitably that many would be led astray and follow the practises of those living in the land before it was conquered. We see many examples of just this thing happening in the Bible with the Israelites and inevitably judgement from God always follows. Such as Baal worship and child sacrifice.

At the early and young stage the Israelites were at it was necessary for God to order this Holy War so as to protect His own people, the'apple of his eye'

And finally, yes, it is difficuilt justifying this to other people, sometimes even Christians. But ultimately we do because quite simply it is God's will. And who are we to argue with that! God is the potter, we are just the pots, it's not for us to question the motivation of what that potter creates or how He does it!

Take care
Matt

[SumSam]

Thanks for the replies.

I've thought that perhaps God ended the tyranny of the Aztecs in a similar manner through Cortes and his band, though their own personal motives were perhaps driven more by gold.

But trying to discuss this with others is a different matter altogether, as some of you have pointed out.

[ANewCreature]

Those are all good points - I hadn't thought about the fact most would have lived int he countryside before.

I would also add to the comment about the vile, evil things such as child sacrifice, thta these areas had come up for God's judgment. Somewhere earlier, in Genesis, is a comment that the evil of the Canaanites was not yet complete - I forget where, but perhaps thatis the sign that God was giving them a chance to repent. And, the time when Israel entered is the time when it was complete - that there was now no chance that they would come around.

But, instead of allowing a plague to erupt, like the Bubonic Pleague or something worse, and instead of God raining down fire, He allowed israel, just this once, to engage in this invasion. Because they were going to be judged, anyway. Just like Sodom and Gomorrah were.

It seems strange that this article would lump the plauge on the first born in there, becasue that was a disease, and diseases happen all the time. Why not mention the Bubonic Pleague that killed 1/3 of Europe, much more in some areas. Oh, well, that's expecting them to be logical, and they wont' do that.

[Freedom]

In the politically correct world we live in (where for instance, forcing a convicted felon to work is considered inhumane), it is of course difficult to justify the killing of anyone "just because God said so".

But what we aren't told in the bible, and what is often not mentioned by them that object to the invasion, is the truly evil practices of the societies which were in Canaan at the time. Child sacrifice was rampant. It was an evil culture which needed to be stopped, or at least curtailed. Surely the general population was not contented with such an evil rulership.

And I think "curtailed" is the best word to describe what was done. There is no indication, as you have pointed out, that every person in every town was destroyed. Only specifically targeted cities. So the term "genocide" doesn't fit.

It was indeed an invasion, but this was common in that time.

I think that people will always desire to bring God down a notch or two by implying that he has done things in the past, or allowed things to happen, that place his character into question, but it is only because they do not know him. And if they really believed in God, and what they were saying about him, they would fear him too much to speak out against him anyway. It is nothing but another way for them to "hold back the truth in unrighteouness".

The Bible does allude to the sinfulness of the Amorites and indeed why the land was not given to Israel earlier was that the sin wasn't full enough in a vision to Abraham from God:

Gen 15:12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.


Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land [that is] not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;


Gen 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.


Gen 15:15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.


Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites [is] not yet full.

[Freedom]

Also, I am not convinced God told them to destory just some of the inhabitants of the land although the only thing I can see is if the heathen people feared God and left the land voluntarily. The whole land was to be Israel's not just the towns.
Now God knows the hearts and it was because there was such a hardness and enslavement to sin probably similiar to pre flood human wickedness where God also spared none except for Noah and his family as well.

Num 33:55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them [shall be] pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Deu 7:1 ¶ When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

Deu 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, [and] utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:


Jos 9:24 And they answered Joshua, and said, Because it was certainly told thy servants, how that the LORD thy God commanded his servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you, therefore we were sore afraid of our lives because of you, and have done this thing.

[JoelThomas]

Something that I often think about when reading the old testament is that it seems as though God was always working towards the Messiah.
He needed very specific things from the nation of Israel.

Regardless of what you believe about things such as the Nephalim (bloodlines being tainted),its safe to say everything God was doing was under direct assault.

The enemy has tirelessly tried to pervert the land, drive out the Isrealites, occupy their territory (dividing Jerusalem, etc).

After all if you occupy the land God promised to his people you can thwart his plans right:hehee:doh

He couldn't leave it up to the Isrealites to occupy the right land, and maintain the bloodline, etc.

These are all academic reasonings, the real answer would be to ask the Holy Spirit to guide you when you are talking/thinking about these subjects. Let him put words in your mouth and thoughts in your head :thumb

[LaMontre]

Also, I am not convinced God told them to destory just some of the inhabitants of the land although the only thing I can see is if the heathen people feared God and left the land voluntarily. The whole land was to be Israel's not just the towns.

I agree.

Now God knows the hearts and it was because there was such a hardness and enslavement to sin probably similiar to pre flood human wickedness where God also spared none except for Noah and his family as well.

Num 33:55 But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them [shall be] pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Yeah, but I think driving them out is the keyword. My point was that God didn't really order genocide.

Deu 7:1 ¶ When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

Deu 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, [and] utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

Still, the command was to drive them out, and I am sure, to destroy any that resisted militarily.

Jos 9:24 And they answered Joshua, and said, Because it was certainly told thy servants, how that the LORD thy God commanded his servant Moses to give you all the land, and to destroy all the inhabitants of the land from before you, therefore we were sore afraid of our lives because of you, and have done this thing.

Yes, but he did not kill them here either. He simply made them (basically) slaves.