Crossing the Jordan = Baptism of Holy Spirit?

[Rebecki]

Please keep this thread on topic. I'm not looking for a debate on the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but I would like some information about a teaching that I heard recently that has me wanting more information.

Recently I heard a teaching from Jon Courson on the book of Joshua. He teaches that just as Moses leading the Israelites through the Red Sea was a type of baptism, so is Joshua leading them through the Jordan river. This "second baptism" for the Israelites represents the baptism of the Holy Spirit which comes to give the believer power to witness and serve the Lord, not to give the believer great experiences or manifestations.

Please, please, please, do not post your thoughts against this teaching. I've already read up on the teachings against this. I'm just not finding a lot of information in support of it, nor am I finding many places to look. Some might say that there lies my answer, but I'm not satisfied with that. I want info from both sides so that I can make a firm judgement. I'm not even sure how to locate this topic in Scripture.

If anyone can help me I'd appreciate it very, very much. :)

Also, please don't bash Jon Courson, just keep it on topic about the teaching.

[Hootmon]

The term 'Ivrit', of which Abram/Abraham was the first, means 'one who has crossed over'. How that relates to Joshua and the Jordan, Im not certain...

The OT notion of 'baptism' wasnt necessarily used in the same way we use it now. It was to signify a 'change of status'. IMO, the purpose of the Red Sea 'baptism' was to signify the change in 'slavery' from 'slave to Pharoah' to 'slave to God'.

The Jordan passage is more akin to Abraham's 'crossing over' than the Red Sea 'rebirth'. Both Joshua and Abraham had already proven their faith before the events occurred.

I dont know if that helps or not, but there you go...

[Joel]

The term 'Ivrit', of which Abram/Abraham was the first, means 'one who has crossed over'. How that relates to Joshua and the Jordan, Im not certain...

The OT notion of 'baptism' wasnt necessarily used in the same way we use it now. It was to signify a 'change of status'. IMO, the purpose of the Red Sea 'baptism' was to signify the change in 'slavery' from 'slave to Pharoah' to 'slave to God'.

Salvation.

Colossians 1:13 ~ Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.

[Hootmon]

Oh, sure. Pack four sentences into one word... :heh

Ever get the sense that they thought about rivers (flowing water in general) as being 'alive'. Not mere boundaries, but divisions between qualitatively different 'things'?

[Joel]

Very good point.
It would seem as so.

I think they, the ancients, and God himself even... might think of nature and the 'stuff' around us in much more poetic terms that we often take for granted.

Flowing rivers are indeed "alive". So passing from one side to the next could be thought of as going 'through' or 'across' "life"?

Passing from life into the next? Just thinking out loud.....




I have always seen the crossing of the Reed Sea/Jordan River as qualifiers for the transcending of life into death into life reborn.

[Hootmon]

Passing from life into the next? :nod


I have always seen the crossing of the Reed Sea/Jordan River as qualifiers for the transcending of life into death into life reborn.Not just 'another of the same type', but rather 'another of a different type'...

[Joel]

:nod

[Joel]

So Ivrit... the first Hebrew (Abraham), and the nation of Hebrews... the nation whom God chose to call His own....

are indeed representative of those that 'cross over from beyond'.... the expression of Life & Death, as it were, and the grand chasm of crossing over represented....


Christ, our God, and the Hebrew messiah, would seem to be the epitome and encapsulation of these themes....

[Hootmon]

Successive 'crossings' bring us closer to God?

[Joel]

hmm...