Big Bubba - The Holidays Threads Merged

[1master]

I dont believe they belong in the Church. I feel like :pukeing when I think of that.

[House of Light]

2 Kings 21:7 He(manasseh) took the carved Asherah Pole he had made and put it in the temple,....." Usually, with this Asherah Pole...are prostitutes....

About the eating of meat sacrificed to idols. I don't think people went out and sought meat that had been sacrificed to idols. That is where the difference lies. They were not actively invovled with the sacrifice to pagan idols...and thn eating the meat. They didn't say, "Hey, lets have a meal tonight of meat sacrificed to idols."

However, when we actively participate, and seek it out...that is a different story.

Finally, not all things are permissable for us. We can't take that out of context. Its not permissable to practice witchcraft, murder, commit adultery. I think what was being said about meat sacrificed to other idols, was, "Hey...if you are hungry, and that is what is available...eat it." It wasn't permisable to take all of the pagan practices and make them our own....just because "we can".

Lastly, I just want to ask the question, "Why?" Why would those practices be something we want to participate in? After the truth be known? It makes stomach heave when I think that this same ritual has been practiced for thousands of years....each spring....after the 1st full moon following the spring equinox. Do I want to be part of that? Do I want my kids part of that, even if I call it something different? Isn't it the same thing with a different name? If I change my name, Am I still me?

I am not condemning anyone who particiaptes. That is up to you and what you feel convicted to do or not to do. I just get frustrated when that old asherah pole gets brought into church.

[lmenningen]

...we have just finished studying the Kings...and how they would incorporate the Asherah pole into the temple...It would be wise to factor in that those people were consciously and intentionally rejecting the Lord and worshipping another god. We see the intentional part in Exodus "...Come, make us gods that shall go before us...as for this Moses...we do not know what has become of him." (Exo 32:1 NKJV) and the worshipping part with Jeroboam in I Kings 12:25-30 NKJV "...if these people go up to the house of the Lord at Jerusalem, then (their) heart will turn back to Rehoboam" - therefore Jeroboam "made two calves" and said "Here are your gods..." - and not only that, Rehoboam himself "...forsook the law of the Lord, and all Israel along with him." (II Chron 12:1 KKJV)

[KaiafromBergen]

1Cr 8:7 Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.


1Cr 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.


1Cr 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.


1Cr 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;


1Cr 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?


1Cr 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.


1Cr 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Over the years, our family has realized that the "traditions" of Halloween, Easter, Christmas are pagan (we knew halloween was pagan, but just participated for the candy). As we've matured, we've come to realize that that by perpetuating the pagan rituals surrounding these "holidays" we are diminishing ourselves and our witness.

We no longer participate in halloween, and our Christmas celebration consists of giving what we would have spent on gifts to a Christian organization. Easter (in our vocabulary) has become "Resurrection Day" and we spend it praising God for what He has done through His Son, Jesus Christ . . . and our anticipation of Rapture!

[teresa13]

I don't want my kids to think of "eggs and candy" when someone says the word "easter." I certainly don't want those pagan things brought into worship of our Lord.

:thumb

[Anddra]

Then it seemed good to the apostles and to the elders, with the whole assembly, to send chosen men from among them with Paul and Barnabas to Antioch, Judas called Barsabas and Silas, leading men among the brethren, having by their hand written [thus]:

'The apostles, and the elders, and the brethren, to the brethren who are from among [the] nations at Antioch, and [in] Syria and Cilicia, greeting: Inasmuch as we have heard that some who went out from amongst us have troubled you by words, upsetting your souls, [saying that ye must be circumcised and keep the law]; to whom we gave no commandment; it seemed good to us, having arrived at a common judgment, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have given up their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves also will tell you by word [of mouth] the same things. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: to abstain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what is strangled, and from fornication; keeping yourselves from which ye will do well. Farewell.'

Acts 15:22-29 (Darby) (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2015:22-29&version=16)

One would have to deliberately to go out of their way in order to meat meat sacrificed to idols, so that is not going to happen by accident. Also, we need to bear in mind 1 Corinthians 10:25, which makes it clear that even if the animal had been sacrificed to idols, it is no sin to eat its meat if you have bought it from the 'shambles' (butcher's stall, meat market or provision shop). I avoid products made with blood, such as black pudding, or a dish made from an animal with its blood still in it, such as jugged hare. No further comment should be necessary regarding fornication.

So, I see nothing here that precludes us from eating a chocolate egg (in fact, I have one waiting to be eaten right now). However, I would rather not participate in any service where these symbols are used. In themselves, they are of no importance but it can and does give occasion for stumbling (as evidenced by the discussion on this thread).

We do well to remember how Romans 14 finishes...


So then let us pursue the things which tend to peace, and things whereby one shall build up another. For the sake of meat do not destroy the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil to that man who eats while stumbling [in doing so]. [It is] right not to eat meat, nor drink wine, nor [do anything] in which thy brother stumbles, or is offended, or is weak. Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Blessed [is] he who does not judge himself in what he allows. But he that doubts, if he eat, is condemned; because [it is] not of faith; but whatever [is] not of faith is sin.

Romans 14:19-23 (Darby) (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2014:19-23;&version=16;)

[KitsapGirl]

Hubby and I are very upset.....in the past few months we have watched our church grow more and more away from the word. This sort of thing is why my DH & I are considering leaving our church...New pastor coming in so we'll wait & see first

After ther service on Sunday...the pastors wife(along with a few other women) handed out easter eggs to our kids. The goddesses symbol of fertility.....(That is what it has symbolized for thousands of years...regardeless of what name you label it).....My husband made the comment that they might as well put a pole to Asherah in the sanctuary too...although nobody there knew what he was talking about. Anyway...our kids...(without us interferring) told the pastors wife "No thankyou..." When she asked why...My 6 year old told her that was a pagan tradition...and God does not stand for that. So sad that those in authority are unaware of what they're really teaching...

Most people would say"Big deal". This was us until recently, but if you believe Gods word to be 100% truth...like we do...then a lot of what we condone & believe will have to be corrected...But we have just finished studying the Kings....and how they would incorporate the Asherah pole into the temple(they did this...and even brought in prostitutes)...and God judged them harshly......for bringing in pagan worship into the temple.

House of Light I agree with you. The Scriptures say we are not to mimic or have anything resembling pagan practices. In the Hebrew scriptures it talks of King Asa walking with the Lord and he removed all the idols that his fathers had made, but the high places were not removed. This is a picture of Christianity today we have removed the idols but we still have some of the so called, cute, innocent practices of the pagans. I am sure the Lord feels the same today as he did then--it is an abomination to him.
This year "easter" falls correctly--on the 3rd day after passover--which is the correct day to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord. Most years this pagan holiday is not even close to passover. My family and I celebrate Resurrection Sunday always on the Sunday after passover, that way we are not in any way associated with easter.Funny...This is what we're trying to do...We also do an in-home seder meal & make the commections for our kids. As far as the extended family, we do the egg hunt for Grandma, and a big dinner on Easter day...I still don't feel right about depriving Grandma...

2 Kings 21:7 He(manasseh) took the carved Asherah Pole he had made and put it in the temple,....." Thank you for the referenceUsually, with this Asherah Pole...are prostitutes....Interesting how sex & a pole are also hand in hand today...
About the eating of meat sacrificed to idols. I don't think people went out and sought meat that had been sacrificed to idols. That is where the difference lies. They were not actively invovled with the sacrifice to pagan idols...and thn eating the meat. They didn't say, "Hey, lets have a meal tonight of meat sacrificed to idols." AMEN!

However, when we actively participate, and seek it out...that is a different story.Again AMEN!

Finally, not all things are permissable for us. We can't take that out of context. Its not permissable to practice witchcraft, murder, commit adultery. AMEN!I think what was being said about meat sacrificed to other idols, was, "Hey...if you are hungry, and that is what is available...eat it." It wasn't permisable to take all of the pagan practices and make them our own....just because "we can".

Lastly, I just want to ask the question, "Why?" Why would those practices be something we want to participate in? After the truth be known? It makes stomach heave when I think that this same ritual has been practiced for thousands of years....each spring....after the 1st full moon following the spring equinox. Do I want to be part of that? Do I want my kids part of that, even if I call it something different? Isn't it the same thing with a different name? If I change my name, Am I still me? YUP!

I am not condemning anyone who particiaptes. That is up to you and what you feel convicted to do or not to do. I just get frustrated when that old asherah pole gets brought into church.Thank you House of Light...There is strength in numbers...you see we felt like the only ones who felt & thought this way...When we bring it up at church with other believers, we get the deer in the headlight stare...like we've lost it or something...others tell us that we're becoming legalistic...it's hard to boldly do what's right when those around you who you thought were on your side do not support your efforts to fully follow Gods commandments...
EX 20:3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;


Over the years, our family has realized that the "traditions" of Halloween, Easter, Christmas are pagan (we knew halloween was pagan, but just participated for the candy). As we've matured, we've come to realize that that by perpetuating the pagan rituals surrounding these "holidays" we are diminishing ourselves and our witness.

We no longer participate in halloween, and our Christmas celebration consists of giving what we would have spent on gifts to a Christian organization. Easter (in our vocabulary) has become "Resurrection Day" and we spend it praising God for what He has done through His Son, Jesus Christ . . . and our anticipation of Rapture!
This is where my family is at...trying to break the ties...gently

[OVemLogo]

Here's a study I did on this one time when explaining to someone why I abstain from certain things like Saturnalia...

Eating Meat

1 Corinthians 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

Paul was writing the Church in Corinth. Many of these members were once pagans who worshiped idols Paul`s letter addresses a number of issues that they had brought to his attention. In this case the question was whether or not it was ok to eat meat that was sacrificed in pagan temples, offered to idols (G1494 - eidolothuta [a]), that was later made available for others to buy (e.g. like one might do at a street vendor or supermarket today).

In both Israel and pagan nations, meat was used in sacrificial offerings. Israel also had special days appointed by God like the Sabbath, while the pagans had their own (any special days talked about in these matters refer to days God detailed in Mosaic Law). Israel worshiped the One true living God while the pagans worshiped lifeless and vain idols. The pagans operated outside of God`s revealed plan.

In Israel the sacrifice of the lamb was quite important. For the Church Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. His Blood covers our sins. This sacrifice was first hinted at when God made clothing to cover Adam and Eves nakedness. Later on we see this sacrifice taught to later generations (e.g. Abel`s pleasing offering) and eventually being written in Mosaic Law. All this points to Jesus through whom we have salvation and eternal life. We have left behind our former conduct - all those things which did not glorify God. Things that neither edify the Body of Christ - The Faithful Church. Today we don`t observed any special days nor do we offer animal sacrifices.

Hebrews 10
v1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.

Today God`s people worship in Spirit and Truth in The Body of Christ. Day by day God is helping us grow Spiritually. He`s preparing a Bride for His Son Jesus. Therefore we always want to do what is pleasing to God, as well as those things that build up the Body of Christ:

Romans 14:19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual up building.

In this matter about pagan meat there were some who were stronger in the faith, who`s consciences were not affected by what the simply saw as plain old meat. There were others however who were not strong enough in the faith to see this. For them it was a terrible thing, and it did not edify them to see these things.

1 Corinthians 8
v9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
v10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol`s temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?
v11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died.
v12 Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

Not all those who chose to abstain were necessarily weak in the faith. Take Paul for example. Paul was strong in the faith yet he CHOSE to be weak:

1 Cor 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

He even CHOSE to give up things that were ok to do, yet abstained so not to give anyone occasion to accuse him of anything:

Romans 14
v15 But I have made no use of any of these rights, nor am I writing these things to secure any such provision. For I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of my ground for boasting.

He also reminded us that....

...We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves (Rom 15:1).

Paul was simply doing as Christ did, and enjoins us to do the same.

Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ (1 Cor 11:1).

Paul chose to avoid the appearances of evil, and wrote also how we are to flee away from idolatry.

1 Thes 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

1 Cor 10:14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.

Paul desired to lay no stumbling block in the way of any of his beloved brethern.

Luke 17:1
v1 And he said to his disciples, "Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come!
v2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.

He knew Jesus spoke very seriously about this matter as well.

Both Paul and the council of Jerusalem concluded therefore for these new Gentile believers...

"... to abstain from the things polluted by idols,...what has been sacrificed to idols,... If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well..." (Acts 15:20,29)

Paul again confirms this conclusion this in his own testimony saying...

1 Cor 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

Those of us who know the origins of the meat (whatever it might be) have an obligation to consider those who are weak.

Romans 15
v1 We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
v2 Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.
v3 For Christ did not please himself...

The moment we introduce a stumbling block, is the moment we have chosen to please ourselves at the expense of love for the Body of Christ. Paul said to imitate him as he imitated Christ. Christ chose not to please himself, as also Paul did.

Now for the OTHER side of the coin to this matter: It`s important for us never to try to interfere with the Work the Holy Spirit is doing in the hearts of those who have not yet abandoned the things that do not edify the Body. We are not to point the finger of blame. We are to rather be patient and not despise our brethern:

Romans 14:3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him.

In His time, and in the perfect way He knows best, He will speak to their hearts. Until then we who have chosen to be weak (not for any lack of strength or Spiritually maturity) ought to bear with those who`s actions weaken the unity in the Body.

Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Until then we who have chosen to be weak (though not for any lack of strength or Spiritually maturity on our part - but rather because of that strength) ought to therefore bear patiently with those who`s actions weaken the unity in the Body. Again, in His time and perfect plan, the Holy Spirit will bring them to this same understanding. An understanding that will better serve the interests of the Body. If they are truly doing something wrong, it is the job of the ministry to correct them. It`s not for us to interfere in. Sheep do not feed or correct other sheep. Until then our best recourse is to pray for the Lord to grant them this understanding that will help them to edify the Body. The Holy Spirit saved us, helps us grow, and can do the same for others as well.

1 Cor 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

1 Corinthians 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

_______________________________

[a] G1494 - eidolothuta

Thayer Definition: 1) sacrificed to idols, the flesh left over from the heathen sacrifices; 1a) it was either eaten at the feasts or sold (by the poor and the miserly) in the market; ... neuter of a compound of G1497 and a presumed derivative of G2380...

KJV Occurrences: idols Act_15:29, Act_21:25, 1Co_8:1, 1Co_8:4, 1Co_8:10, 1Co_10:19, 1Co_10:28, Rev_2:14, Rev_2:20 -- offered 1Co_8:7 -- sacrificed Rev_2:14, Rev_2:20

[b] Summary of verse references

Abstaining:
Luke 17:1-2
Acts 15:20,29;
Rom 14:1-3a,15-16,20a,20c-22; 15:1-7;
1 Cor 8:7,9-13; 9:12b,15,22; 10:14,19-22,28-33; 11:1;
1 Thes 5:22;

Not Abstaining:
Rom 14:2,3b,14,20b;
1 Cor 8:4-6,8; 9:1,4; 10:19a

[Daughter]

I don't know but I think that "celebrating" easter and christmas is actuallly going along with paganism and in these last days, we are provoking God's anger.

I'm not into legalism, but this is really making me think hard (and has been for years). I don't know what to think anymore. Easter, Christmas, these are all pagan celebrations. I would like other's opinions. I don't like to celebrate pagan holidays.

[Mitsy]

Uhm NO! You make it pagan by attaching pagan stuff to them.

I'm not Jewish so I don't follow the Jewish traditional feast days nor traditions. So I'm happy to celebrate at Easter the Crucifixion of my Lord and at Christmas the Birth of my Lord.

If you set something aside for the Lord it becomes consecrated and therefore acceptable to the Lord.

You could apply your logic to food we eat, things we buy, banks we use, places we work. All these things and places are defiled by the world in some way by sinfullness attached to them. We would have to stand in one spot and die of starvation in order that we didn't come into contact with waht the pagans or non-believers have defiled in some way.

God created the world and time and space. All days actually belong to God not any pagan cultures who choose to worship their false gods on this day or that. I'm sure you could find a pagan festivals for every day of the year. So are we as children of the God who created everything, not able to enjoy the days He created and worship Him on whatever day we choose? Think about it.