Big Bubba - The Holidays Threads Merged

[Joyb0218]

Don't know much about Two-House theory but am assuming that this involves grouping us As Israel instead of a co-inheritance family. Never have or ever WILL believe we are one and the same. Learning why God commanded Israel to do certain things on certain days has taught me a great deal about His plan for them all along, and what an awesome example they are to us and the rest of the world. Passover is beautiful in its orchestration.

Everything God specified to Israel typified JESUS CHRIST... :thumb

Everything points to His Son. That's why:

Hebrews 10:1 - For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things...

The law, the ordinances, the feasts, the Sabbath's ALL point to Christ.

I don't disagree with you that the Jewish calendars and celebrations are wonderful to study. They are a great "inside" into the mind of the Lord and what He expected of His chosen people....

Personally, I think all the hoopla surrounding "pagan" this or "pagan" that, is a direct assault from satan to taint anything and everything a follow of Christ wants to put into rememberance. His birth, His death and resurrection. All these wonderful events that I hold dear.

I'm typing this really fast so I apologize if I come across weird or am leaving stuff out. But that is what I've learned from study on the OT. Everything points to the cross and Jesus' work on it. :thumb

[Evangelist16]

Just a question, what was Holy Scripture for Paul? What did he use as Scripture, when he wrote all his letters. What was Holy Scripture for Peter? When he wrote his epistle's, what Scripture did he use?

[LindaR]

How is it not judging the brethren to put forth the idea that anyone who celebrates the Lord Jesus's birth or resurrection is following pagan gods and the world is laughing? Or that the Church should follow feast days that were given to the Jewish people alone? Or that, as you said, "My people perish for lack of knowledge" in a post upthread regarding pagan holidays, the Jewish feast days and Christians?

The problem with wrong theology is that it is built on faulty premises and nothing sound can be built on it. And the legalism and spiritual pride that comes from the *secret knowledge that our small group has found that the Body of Christ is ignorant of* comes through. Read this whole, long thread. Nothing new is being said.

Also, so a Search here on Two-House and Hebrew Roots and you'll pull up a lot of great information. A post upthread was deleted because it linked to a Two House, Hebrew Roots site, where the poster was getting his ideas. It is not Biblical.

The Church is not Israel. Israel had commandments to keep the feast days. The Church does not. And the Church is sealed unto eternal life in the grace and righteousness of Jesus.
:agree

We still should be celebrating Jewish Holy Days.

Why? The NT believer needs to get back to the Word of God...not "Jewish Roots"

Acts 15 pretty much speaks for itself as far as the Gentile believers are concerned...what was true for the 1st century church is still true today.

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Acts 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

Acts 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

Acts 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

When the NT believer observes Christmas and Easter, he/she is not celebrating pagan deities. Why look at the pagan origins of these holidays? The birth of Christ and the resurrection of Christ are BIBLICAL events...that is what we observe...not the pagan origins. No need to go back to the Old Covenant and celebrate the Jewish feasts.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

[LindaR]

Just a question, what was Holy Scripture for Paul? What did he use as Scripture, when he wrote all his letters. What was Holy Scripture for Peter? When he wrote his epistle's, what Scripture did he use?
We have the complete canon of Scripture. Therefore, why be concerned about the Scripture Paul and Peter used, which was the OT Scriptures.

Old Testament > Promise / New Testament > Fulfillment

Old Testament > Types / New Testament > Reality

Old Testament > Preparation / New Testament > Presentation

Old Testament > The Foundation / New Testament > The Building

[LisaJo]

[/QUOTE]
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things...

The law, the ordinances, the feasts, the Sabbath's ALL point to Christ.


The verse above describes what the dispute was about. Gentiles were not expected to adhere to The Law of Moses. It is obvious that EVERYTHING that Our Lord had the Jews do, was a shadow of things to come. What Israel did in obedience to God, is not the same as what those around them believed and acted-out.
http://www.jewishmag.com/29mag/moon/moon.htm




One of the first commandments that was given to the Jews, even before they left Egypt, was to fix the calendar to observe the month of the Passover in the appointed time, the spring. Thus, the requirement of having a monthly calendar that is adjusted to meet the solar cycle is a Biblical injunction.
It should not be overlooked that two of the major (http://www.jewishmag.com/29mag/moon/moon.htm#) Jewish festivals begin on the full moon, Passover and Succoth. Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year is different, it is the first day of the seventh month.
The Jewish month is based on the seeing the new moon. When two persons saw the new moon they would come to the Jewish High Court and give testimony that they had saw the moon. This did not mean that the court did not know when the moon was scheduled to appear, but rather that the sanctification of the moon had to be made according to eyewitness reports. The court would question the witnesses to ascertain that they indeed did see the moon. Afterwards, the court proclaimed that a new month had begun. Even if the court knew by its own calculations that the new moon was scheduled to appear on a certain day, but due to weather conditions it was not seen, they did not declare the new moon until the next day when witnesses arrived. It was conceivable that the new month would be delayed a day. Also the courts were empowered to add an extra month to the yearly cycle to insure (http://www.jewishmag.com/29mag/moon/moon.htm#) that the holiday of Passover would be in the spring. For this purpose they would add another month to the yearly cycle. The year would then have thirteen months (as in this year 2000, or as we say, 5760).


Where does "Pagan" fit into this? If you are trying to group The Law of Moses with Pagan practices as well, I'm not buying it.

[Evangelist16]

We have the complete canon of Scripture. Therefore, why be concerned about the Scripture Paul and Peter used, which was the OT Scriptures.


Okay, so the scripture's that Saul and Peter used are just obselete? That was the Holy Scripture for them. They didn't have a New Testament back then, and you also realize that their was only one Gentile writer, throughout the whole Bible? As well, why do you think Saul, was so interested into getting back too Jerusalem, to celebrate Passover? Again, their is only one difference between me and Messianic Jew. He is one of the original chosen of God. While I have been grafted in. As well, show me one place in the whole Bible, that represents Easter. Please do show.

[LindaR]

Okay, so the scripture's that Saul and Peter used are just obselete? That was the Holy Scripture for them. They didn't have a New Testament back then, and you also realize that their was only one Gentile writer, throughout the whole Bible? As well, why do you think Saul, was so interested into getting back too Jerusalem, to celebrate Passover? Again, their is only one difference between me and Messianic Jew. He is one of the original chosen of God. While I have been grafted in. As well, show me one place in the whole Bible, that represents Easter. Please do show.
Remember that Saul/Paul wrote (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) the majority of the New Testament. Before the NT canon was complete, all anybody had was the OT. The NT is the fulfillment of the OT...so how can a person see the OT as obsolete? They didn't have the NT because these men were two of the main writers of the NT. As far as the one Gentile writer, Luke, he was more than likely a proselyte to Judaism and later converted to Christianity.

When Paul was saved on the road to Damascus, his life changed. In Philippians 3, he writes:

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Philippians 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

Philippians 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Philippians 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

What is the difference between you and a Messianic Jew? Absolutely nothing...in Christ there is no difference (Galatians 3:28)

As far as Easter in the Bible, the only place the word "Easter" is mentioned in the Bible is in Acts 12:4:

Acts 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

From Way of Life Encyclopedia:


Way of Life Encyclopedia

EASTER

(1) A pagan holiday (Acts 12:4). This is the only place in which "easter" appears in the Authorized Version. Some say that this should be translated "passover" and they point to this as an error in the KJV, but they are wrong. The Easter of Acts 12:4 occurred after the Passover. We know this because Acts 12:3 says it was "the days of unleavened bread." The feast of unleavened bread followed the Passover (Numbers 28:16-25), but this Easter was after the feast of unleavened bread. It refers to a pagan holiday, probably the celebration of Tammuz, the sun god (Jack Moorman, Easter or Passover?). "Easter" is a proper translation to distinguish it from the Jewish Passover, and the KJV translators were wise in their choice of this word. In using the term "Easter" in Acts 12:4, The King James Translators merely left intact the reading of Tyndale, Matthews, and the Geneva Bible: "Then were the days of unleavened bread, and when he had caught him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to be kept, intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people" (The Newe Testament by William Tindale, 1526, John Wesley Sawyer, The Martyrs Bible Series).

(2) An occasion observed by many Christians commemorating the resurrection of Christ. It is observed on the Sunday immediately after the first full moon that occurs on or after March 21. Originally Easter was a pagan holiday in the name of the goddess of spring, but it was "Christianized" by the Catholic Church and adapted to the remembrance of Christ's resurrection. Sunrise services are adaptations of the ancient worship of the sun.

[Evangelist16]

As far as Easter in the Bible, the only place the word "Easter" is mentioned in the Bible is in Acts 12:4:

Acts 12:3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

You realize, Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Passover right? He didn't fulfill Easter. Those who read KJV, and say KJV only. They have no idea, that Easter, is a pagan traditon, which their is no way to correct it. It was a Pagan Holiday, that Roman Christians liked, so they adapted their Pagan ideas with Christian ideas. Still today, Christians say they celebrate the resurrection of our Savior, but really they still promote their the Pagan tradition. If you want to celebrate, something Jesus fulfilled when he died on the cross for our sins, celebrate the Feast of Passover. I encourage you all, who disagree with me, to go and read the book of Exodus. The first passover.

[Joyb0218]

Evangelist16, can I ask what you thought of iSong's post, #1107?

[Evangelist16]

Well, I already was rebuked by iSong's the other day. For posting a website on "Two-house Theory", as well "Hebrew Roots". I'm just totally interested, why Christians would celebrate a pagan holiday. I don't think Jesus, would want us to celebrate Pagan traditions. Go read 1 Kings 18. They had to choose between, God, or Baal. So what your doing when it comes to Easter, is God, or Ashteroth. We can debate this back and forth, but why is it when I start to speak of the pagan traditions of Easter and Christmas. The nest gets stirred and people get defensive? I as a Christian am not juding, not one of you. When I'm out on the streets witnessing to people, then after I go through the Law of God (The Ten Commandments), and they are guilty of them. Some will say that I am judging them. But this is a first from fellow Christians, that I've been told I'm judging people. Joy, can you tell me though, what Passover represents? And how Jesus was prophesied, when the Hebrews had the first passover, which happened in Moses' time?