Big Bubba - The Holidays Threads Merged

[Timothy]

I've had similar experiences with many in the so called "Hebrew Roots" movement. The teachings in that movement are very legalistic - many believing the entire Mosaic Law continues and that we should all live effectively as Orthodox Jews, except for accepting Christ as the Messiah....

This is often described as "Galatianism," as that is what the Galatians did - put themselves back under the law.

[scrappergirl]

RObbison,
I didn't know it actually had a name.

Do you know if all messianic churches/synagogs believe this?
I am not even sure if she got this from her new 'church' or if she just decided it herself...she seems to like to play the better christian than thou card alot.
and frankly, it causes people to run the opposite way.

one minute she is totally for THIS and the next, she's condemning THIS like its the plague.
Take for instance BEnny Hinn. She was totally into him. I sent her a bunch of stuff showing his true nature and the stuff he has said, etc., and now she acts like she was NEVER Into him...like she ALWAYS knew there was "something" not right.
:doh

[historyb]

I don't believe that a Christian is any less faithful for celebrating Jesus's resurrection on Easter or closer to the time of Passover. It's the fact that we praise Him and rejoice in His resurrection that matters. If we argue dates and rituals and this and that, we start focusing on the outside, we become more like the Pharisees who wanted to do what looked right in the eyes of others rather than giving their hearts fully to God. It's that heart condition that matters to Christ. Not this day or that day, this food or that food, etc. :hug

:thumb

[Robbinson]

RObbison,
I didn't know it actually had a name.

Do you know if all messianic churches/synagogs believe this?
I am not even sure if she got this from her new 'church' or if she just decided it herself...she seems to like to play the better christian than thou card alot.
and frankly, it causes people to run the opposite way.

one minute she is totally for THIS and the next, she's condemning THIS like its the plague.
Take for instance BEnny Hinn. She was totally into him. I sent her a bunch of stuff showing his true nature and the stuff he has said, etc., and now she acts like she was NEVER Into him...like she ALWAYS knew there was "something" not right.
:doh

No - not all messianic synagogues and Churches. There are many in the messianic community (Jewish and Gentile) who worship with Jewish traditions but who do not believe the Mosaic law continues (other than the 10 commandments). But there are some who take a much more legalistic view of Matthew 5:17 to mean that literally the entire Torah continues because "not all was fulfilled" yet. Its hard to reconcile that view with NT scripture. For example, what purpose could there be for an ongoing levitical priesthood when we have Chirst, our high priest in the order of Melchezidek who is greater than any levitical priest? Why re-create the veil in the temple separating Israel from God if Christ tore the veil giving us direct access to God through Christ? Why wear the law on our farheads (tefillan) and post it on our doorposts (Mezuzzah) if Christ has written His law in our hearts? Why reinstitute animal sacrafics (if/when the temple is rebuilt) when Christ is are once and for all sacrifice? Why subject ourselves to the Law when Christ has freed us from the Law and nailed it to the cross?

Regards,

Brian

[scrappergirl]

i agree with your post.

one thing about the ten commandments is that whole saturday sabbath (although for me it is pretty much cleared up in col. 2)...
anyway.
just sad and frustrating that she has decided not only to put herself back under the law, but others as well....

okay.
sorry for the derail.
back to topic!

[Doulos]

Let me bring this up: if you have a concern with the date of Easter being used to "celebrate his death and resurrection," then similarly you should have the same concern with the date of Christmas (December 25th) to celebrate the birth of Christ, if the same principle is applied. Just as the name Easter and dating of the holiday have pagan origins, the name Christmas ("Christ's Mass") is of Catholic origination. The Catholic church overlayed pagan winter festivals. The holidays are what they are - created by man, most with religious thems placed over pagan themes. Here's something that I wrote a while back, which may help.

When it comes to worship, a little leaven does spoil the whole lump. However, the secular is by its very nature already spoiled. This is why I condemn Christmas as a religious holiday. It is not based in truth (as it declares a day for Jesus' birth which by most accounts is highly unlikely and by my own determination impossible) nor does it have any sort of biblical authority. I have less of a problem with it as a secular celebration and a time for family to get together and even to celebrate Christ as we should at all times anyway.

Now on Easter, I really have a problem with the name and prefer those celebrations that call it Resurrection Day. As for the day it is celebrated it is close enough I guess (especially given how out of whack the Gregorian calendar is). I wish that instead we would celebrate the true day that Jesus rose, which is the biblical holiday First Fruits.

Now for Halloween, if one is involved in it as a secular celebration I don't have much of a problem with it given that it is a day for kids to dress up and get candy and nothing more.

[Doulos]

I've had similar experiences with many in the so called "Hebrew Roots" movement. The teachings in that movement are very legalistic - many believing the entire Mosaic Law continues and that we should all live effectively as Orthodox Jews, except for accepting Christ as the Messiah. The problem is that teaching ignores significant portions of NT teachings in the epistles regarding the fulfillment of the law by Christ, the purpose of the law as a tudor until christ, the law being a shadow of things to come, etc.

Regards,

Brian

The Law has not ended and it is still in full effect as it has been since its inception except for all those that are in Christ. Now, you are right about 'some' in the Hebrew Roots movement. It didn't start out that way, but it has seemed to drift in that direction. This is typical of every legitimate 'movement' I know of in the church. It starts well and addresses real issues, but then it becomes self involved and goes too far. However, I have also known many to not understand what those in the Hebrew Roots movement are doing and call out "legalism" without any true basis.

[Doulos]

No - not all messianic synagogues and Churches. There are many in the messianic community (Jewish and Gentile) who worship with Jewish traditions but who do not believe the Mosaic law continues (other than the 10 commandments). But there are some who take a much more legalistic view of Matthew 5:17 to mean that literally the entire Torah continues because "not all was fulfilled" yet. Its hard to reconcile that view with NT scripture. For example, what purpose could there be for an ongoing levitical priesthood when we have Chirst, our high priest in the order of Melchezidek who is greater than any levitical priest? Why re-create the veil in the temple separating Israel from God if Christ tore the veil giving us direct access to God through Christ? Why wear the law on our farheads (tefillan) and post it on our doorposts (Mezuzzah) if Christ has written His law in our hearts? Why reinstitute animal sacrafics (if/when the temple is rebuilt) when Christ is are once and for all sacrifice? Why subject ourselves to the Law when Christ has freed us from the Law and nailed it to the cross?

Regards,

Brian

I think Matt. 5:17-18 is clear that the Law has not and will not pass away until heaven and earth itself pass away. But, I think you misinterpret the consequences of that. First I want to be very clear that no one in Christ is under the Law. But, the Law still serves to condemn as it always has. This is why it is instrumental in driving the unsaved to Christ. It was created so that sins might abound, in other words so people would know just how sinful they truly are. It is guilt of sin that convinces us of the need for a Savior. Thus it drives the sinner into the arms of Christ.

For those in Christ, there has indeed been a change in law (Heb. 7:12); for He is our High Priest. We have been set free from the old letter of the Law and now serve in spirit and in truth.

[Robbinson]

.

For those in Christ, there has indeed been a change in law (Heb. 7:12); for He is our High Priest. We have been set free from the old letter of the Law and now serve in spirit and in truth.

:thumb

[historyb]

We have been set free from the old law. We don't follow it anymore, it is there as a tutor not for us to follow. As far as Christian Holidays:

5 In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. 6 Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God

Romans 14:5-6