Big Bubba - The Holidays Threads Merged

[Tio-Peregrino]

Christ came not to terminate the law;

So the Mosaic Law is still in effect? Where do we read that Paul applies the Mosaic Law specifically to a congregation of people after Pentecost???

Matthew 5:17 has largely been misused to imply that the Law of Moses is still in effect today. Taking that verse out of its context simply isn't good, and actually confuses the issue greatly. I'll have to respond again when I have ample time to go into detail.

[Tio-Peregrino]

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Act 17:2 And according to Paul's custom, he went in to them and reasoned with them out of the Scriptures on three sabbaths,

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


If you think the sabbath has been done away with or replaced by the day of the sun, then how do you reconcile this prophecy;

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Has this taken place? Has a flesh come to worship before the LORD?

Colossians 2:16 -- to be balanced you must take this into account, Lavender.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone's saying that the Sabbath has been done away with. It exists...it's Saturday. Observance of that particularly day is not mandatory for the Christian.

You are very preoccupied with the letter of the Mosaic Law. The Sabbath was the seal of the Mosaic Law. God commanded Israel to observe it...to remember their slavery in Egypt. Were you a slave in Egypt? I don't think so. We can praise the Lord on Mondays, Wednesdays, or Sundays, or even on Saturday evening as the Church as Troas did in Acts. God wants our contrite hearts (Psalm 51)...not vain observances. We can come before the Lord whenever. It's wrong of you to call those of us who attend Church on Sunday to be worshippers of the Sun.:tsk It's tantamount to your implication that I worship the Christmas tree as an idol.

[lavender]

If you keep My commandments, you shall abide in My love... words of Jesus, our Lord and our God. YET, what were Jesus' commandments? 1. Love the Lord your God with all your mind, all your heart, all your soul and all your strength, 2. love your neighbor as yourself, 3. love one another (fellow believers) as Christ loves you. UPON THESE hangs the whole of the Law. THESE things are what we, as Christians, are called to "observe".

In His love,

Yes, by love we fulfill the law, by loving God and loving people, absolutetly correct. And because the word "love" is quite vague, the Lord made sure we understood what love is;

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

It looks to me like the Ten Commandments stand.


Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

[Tio-Peregrino]

does the Bible mention believers observing the sabbath after Christ's rising?

What matters even more, I would say, is that which took place after Pentecost. The ekklesia...the Church came into being on Pentecost. And I think it's been reitterated here that one can attend church on any day. The Sabbath was the seal of the Mosaic Law...like circumcision was the seal of the Abrahamic Covenant...like the rainbow was the seal of the Noahic Covenant.

There was no Sabbath observance from Adam to Moses. It's not mentioned at all. Many folks who give up with the Scripture regardin the Sabbath in the Mosaic Law usually divert to the Creation...and call it a Creation ordinance. However, if it was a Creation ordinance then both Gentiles and Jews would be observing it. And obviously the Gentiles did not observe it...it was one more way that the Lord made Israel special unto Himself. In fact, the word Sabbath is first found when its written of in the Mosaic Law...not at the time of Creation.

"And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deuteronomy 5:15).

But this thread is not about the Sabbath. So I'll shush...

[Tio-Peregrino]

Yes, by love we fulfill the law, by loving God and loving people, absolutetly correct. And because the word "love" is quite vague, the Lord made sure we understood what love is;

It's not the Mosaic Law, though.


Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

It looks to me like the Ten Commandments stand.

Similarity does not mean that they are the same. It was wrong to kill back at the time of Cain and Abel. They lived long before the Mosaic Law was given. We live under the New Covenant...

1 Corinthians 11:25

Furthermore, Paul called the New Covenant the "law of the life-giving Spirit" in Romans 8:2 as opposed to the "law of sin and death." Pretty stark contrast there. He's referring to the New...not the Mosaic.


Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

This is a judgement of God on Jerusalem...not sure how you're trying to utilize it for your purposes here.:scratch

[lavender]

So the Mosaic Law is still in effect? Where do we read that Paul applies the Mosaic Law specifically to a congregation of people after Pentecost???

Matthew 5:17 has largely been misused to imply that the Law of Moses is still in effect today. Taking that verse out of its context simply isn't good, and actually confuses the issue greatly. I'll have to respond again when I have ample time to go into detail.


In context;

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So, in context it says something different than "Think not that I am come to destroy the law"? And the heaven and earth thing, what does that reeeally mean?

Let's be clear, the sacrificial law has been superseded by a better covenant through the blood of Christ, the book of Hebrews is very clear on that. Furthermore, we are not under the letter of the law but rather the spirit. It's not only still a sin to commit adultery, "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. " Mat 5:28 How can this be so hard to comprehend?


Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

[lavender]

Colossians 2:16 -- to be balanced you must take this into account, Lavender.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone's saying that the Sabbath has been done away with. It exists...it's Saturday. Observance of that particularly day is not mandatory for the Christian.

You are very preoccupied with the letter of the Mosaic Law. The Sabbath was the seal of the Mosaic Law. God commanded Israel to observe it...to remember their slavery in Egypt. Were you a slave in Egypt? I don't think so. We can praise the Lord on Mondays, Wednesdays, or Sundays, or even on Saturday evening as the Church as Troas did in Acts. God wants our contrite hearts (Psalm 51)...not vain observances. We can come before the Lord whenever. It's wrong of you to call those of us who attend Church on Sunday to be worshippers of the Sun.:tsk It's tantamount to your implication that I worship the Christmas tree as an idol.

Incorrect Tio, I'm preoccupied with truth. However, I'm responding to this post to ask you if you are trying to goad me into answering on a subject I've been warned about?


Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

[Sassy Granny]

If the keeping of Sabbath (whether the day or the associated observances) were for today, then there's a prescription for what that "keeping" looks like. No thank you! :suprised

http://www.torah.org/advanced/shulchan-aruch/ocarchives.html

[icebear]

thank God for grace, eh?


:faint

[HeIsEnough]

Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

Lets just drop the Sabbath issue, and lets also keep in check the exceptionally damning scriptures like the one above, others can be pointed back at you just as easily. Resorting to methods like that is not so good.