Big Bubba - The Holidays Threads Merged

[lavender]

It pertains to Jerusalem...look at Isaiah 28:14. It also deals with Northern Israel or Ephraim or the area of Samaria. As far as the Scripture delineates I don't see that it pertains to Southern California specifically. Yes, it has future application as we read about the Day of the Lord...His unusual act...His awesome work...His act (all phrases that point to The Day of the Lord). There is a "covenant of death" mentioned in Isiaiah 28:18, which appears to be the same covenant referred to in Daniel 9:27...

Hi Tio, yes, I agree Isa 28:17 pertains to Jerusalem, however I believe there may be a second fulfilment, (not being dogmatic), perhaps as the first trumpet of Rev 8:7.

[Tio-Peregrino]

I think many of us had that same experience, Tio. Christmas to us was and is about Jesus.

:nod

Yes, when that has been the focus for my entire life when it comes to that season/day (although from very early on I knew that Jesus hadn't been born on that specific day) I find it difficult to think that others would be turned away from it because of how that particular time was observed by people who were not Christians. Easter and Resurrection Sunday is another good example. We don't get into bunnies and all that, but focus on the resurrection. I'm not saying that folks who do anything with bunnies are evil or wrong...they've got freedom in Christ to do this. Bunnies are pretty benign...like Santa Claus, IMHO.

[Tio-Peregrino]

Hi Tio, yes, I agree Isa 28:17 pertains to Jerusalem, however I believe there may be a second fulfilment, (not being dogmatic), perhaps as the first trumpet of Rev 8:7.

A double fulfillment? Do you have other prophecies in Scripture that have been fulfilled twice? From my understanding, prophecies have one particular fulfillment. Otherwise, for example, there could be another virgin birth in Bethlehem...no?

[DjJen]

UPDATE!!! ON MY FRIEND:wave

This is what she said...
In regards to the info you sent me about the end of times as it relates to the bible, it was interesting to read it. But I will be totally honest, its hard for me to really take it all as fact because Im skeptical of religion and religious texts. Nothing against Christianity, Im just not convinced. Maybe someday I will change my mind, I dont know. Its hard for me to have faith in it though, which is what you must have to really be a Christian. I would actually like to read the bible at some point in my life. Maybe then I will have a better understanding of the faith that goes along with being christian. Having said that, I still think the bible and Christianity are interesting, so I dont mind talking about it at all.

YEAH thanks for helping me everyone!:hat:hug :yeahI feel like she can see the door she just hasn't heard the knock and let Him in.
Sorry but anymore more advice I could give her?

[Tio-Peregrino]

I have often been intrigued by the Yom Kippur ceremony that took place...and specifically how the Talmud recites it taking place after the crucifixion of the Lord.

In Biblical times, of course, a bull and two goats were the sacrifices made. The bull was offered for the sins of the High Priest and the other priests, so that he could be purified before entering into God’s presence. The goats, one for Yhvh and one for the scapegoat would then atone for Israel. The word “scapegoat” is a translation of Azazel. Keil and Delitzsch explain the significance of the word:


Azazel, which only occurs in this chapter, signifies neither “a remote solitude,” nor any locality in the desert whatever (as Jonathan, Rashi, etc., suppose); nor the “he-goat” . . . The words, one lot for Jehovah and one for Azazel, require unconditionally that Azazel should be regarded as a personal being, in opposition to Jehovah. . . We have not to think, however, of [just] any demon whatever, who seduces men to wickedness in the form of an evil spirit, as the fallen angel Azazel is represented as doing in the Jewish writings . . . but of the devil himself, the head of the fallen angels, who was afterwards called Satan; for no subordinate evil spirit could have been placed in antithesis to Jehovah as Azazel is here, but only the ruler or head of the kingdom of demons. The desert and desolate places are mentioned elsewhere as the abode of evil spirits (Isa. 13:21 and 34:14; Mat. 12:43; Luk. 11:24; Rev. 18:2). (Keil, Johann and Franz Delitzsch, Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament, [e-Sword version 7.0.0, ed. Rick Meyers, 2000-2003])

And yet, while the “scapegoat” was, in effect, given over to Azazel, to the very Enemy himself, the “two goats . . . must be altogether alike in look, size, and value; indeed, so earnestly was it sought to carry out the idea that these two formed parts of one and the same sacrifice, that it was arranged that they should, if possible, even be purchased at the same time” (Edersheim, The Temple: Its Ministry and Services, p. 248).

So all speculations that the scapegoat might represent Satan or the Antichrist or some other evil entity fall short. What could these two goats signify other than the dual-natured Messiah Yeshua? He carried away all our sin, just as the scapegoat would be sent into the wilderness with the sins of Israel: “As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions from us” (Psa. 103:12). Unlike the lambs, goats, and bulls that died on the altar, our Messiah rose again. Thus, like the two goats, He was both sacrificed and yet lives.

A red ribbon was tied in the horns of the scapegoat. When the goat was led out before the people, if God accepted the sacrifice, the ribbon would miraculously turn white as a reminder of the promise that “though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool” (Isa. 1:18). It is most interesting that for the forty years between the sacrifice of Yeshua and the destruction of the Temple, the scarlet ribbon did not turn white!


Forty years before the Temple was destroyed the chosen lot was not picked with the right hand, nor did the crimson stripe turn white, nor did the westernmost light burn; and the doors of the Temple’s Holy Place swung open by themselves, until Rabbi Yochanon ben Zakkai spoke saying: “O most Holy Place, why have you become disturbed? I know full well that your destiny will be destruction, for the prophet Zechariah ben Iddo has already spoken regarding you saying: 'Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour the cedars'” (Zech. 11:1). (Babylonian Talmud, Yoma 39b)

Hebrews 8 -10 explains that when Messiah completed His sacrifice on the cross, He entered the heavenly Holy of Holies, of which that of the Tabernacle and the Temple were merely copies, to complete the Yom Kippur ritual of atonement. The sacrifice was not accepted because it was being offered by the wrong High Priest:


For Messiah is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: nor yet that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others . . . But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; from henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool. (Heb. 9:24-25, 10:12-13)

It's quite interesting that they would note what took place in the 40 years prior to the destruction of Jerusalem. This is probably not great evidence for your friend...but it is nevertheless interesting. As Christians we know that Matthew 12 is a watershed moment...the denial of Jesus's Messiahship, an event that culminated in the Unforgivable Sin as many call it. Unfortunately, many Christians want to say that the Unforgivable Sin can be practiced today...yet in its context we see that it can't be. A denial was made that led to physical suffering of a generation--though not spiritual death to that generation. The apostles speak to that generation, and many are saved, as we read in Acts.

(A parallel here would be the Exodus generation...the sin at Kadesh Barnea kept this generation from entering the Promised Land...so they had a physical judgement yet the whole generation was not kept from Abraham's Bosom, which would be parallel with Heaven for us following what Jesus accomplished in His crucifixion)

When one reads Eusebius (probably the first Christian historian) we see that no Christians died in the destruction of Jerusalem. Is this a coincedence?


"But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. " (History of the Church 3:5:3)

Regardless, the ribbon not turning white is interesting. Why did this happen? It seems to be that the sacrifice was not accepted because the countdown for divine discipline had begun in Matthew 12.

[savedatcamp]

UPDATE!!! ON MY FRIEND:wave

This is what she said...
In regards to the info you sent me about the end of times as it relates to the bible, it was interesting to read it. But I will be totally honest, its hard for me to really take it all as fact because Im skeptical of religion and religious texts. Nothing against Christianity, Im just not convinced. Maybe someday I will change my mind, I dont know. Its hard for me to have faith in it though, which is what you must have to really be a Christian. I would actually like to read the bible at some point in my life. Maybe then I will have a better understanding of the faith that goes along with being christian. Having said that, I still think the bible and Christianity are interesting, so I dont mind talking about it at all.

YEAH thanks for helping me everyone!:hat:hug :yeahI feel like she can see the door she just hasn't heard the knock and let Him in.
Sorry but anymore more advice I could give her?

I would say just pray for her at this point, ask the Lord to soften her heart and make her open to the Word of God and his gift of Salvation.
Blessings,
savedatcamp

[savedatcamp]

I love everyone here at RR :hat but this thread was for a new believer~member to learn about Pagan Holidays and how to witness to her friend. It has become (IMHO) very confusing and complicated for those new to the Lord Jesus and his gift of Salvation.
Blessings,
savedatcamp

[Tio-Peregrino]

I love everyone here at RR :hat but this thread was for a new believer~member to learn about Pagan Holidays and how to witness to her friend. It has become (IMHO) very confusing and complicated for those new to the Lord Jesus and his gift of Salvation.
Blessings,
savedatcamp

I can see your concern. The thread did have a rabbit trail of sorts in regard to covenantal issues. However, I think that this is good information to know for young Believers. Once a young Believer comes to the Lord I know that the Deceiver will try to put them on a collision course with such issues as the Law...such issues as confusion between the Church and Israel...between Sabbath observance and freedom in Christ. I hesitated some before commenting on some of these issues, but thought of my own walk and how early on I was confused with some of these issues...and even later on I was confused with other issues brought up in this thread.

Blessings,
Matthew

[HeIsEnough]

Pagan Holidays


I think that this is good information to know for young Believers.

:nod

It takes a good full understanding of the situation, to understand why and how we relate to the law.

[CharlotteMc]

I can see your concern. The thread did have a rabbit trail of sorts in regard to covenantal issues. However, I think that this is good information to know for young Believers. Once a young Believer comes to the Lord I know that the Deceiver will try to put them on a collision course with such issues as the Law...such issues as confusion between the Church and Israel...between Sabbath observance and freedom in Christ. I hesitated some before commenting on some of these issues, but thought of my own walk and how early on I was confused with some of these issues...and even later on I was confused with other issues brought up in this thread.

Blessings,
Matthew

I don't consider myself to be a young Believer, however, I have learned so much from this thread. Thank you Tio.
:thankyou