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The Sower
November 16th, 2007, 06:30 PM
hello everyone, This thread is reguarding to John Hagees' thread
that was locked. I took it upon myself to contact the ministry and pass them the thread that was locked. This is the email that they wrote me. I wanted to post it to see what u guys have to say about it.

Email Letter responding back to the previous thread that was locked.




We received an inquiry from you on a quote from Pastor’s new book “In Defense of Israel”. Accept our apologies for the delay in contacting you. Pastor has written a response to answer your concerns.

We thank you for taking the time to contact us. May you and your family be blessed in all you do.

JESUS: MESSIAH OR SAVIOR?

Many Christians have constructed a catch 22 concerning Jesus as Messiah. The catch 22 is this:
"Jesus came to be Messiah but because the Jews rejected Him as Messiah He had to go to the cross, hence the Jews are the Christ Killers."

Fact: According to Webster's Dictionary the word "Messiah" means "the expected king who delivers from oppressors." A Messiah is one who rules and reigns over a given people.

Fact: The God of the Bible is absolutely sovereign! That means He is in control of everything in heaven and on earth all the time. If God is not sovereign; He can't be God.

Question: What was God's Sovereign will for Jesus Christ from the foundations of the earth?

Revelation 13:8 reads that Jesus Christ was the "Lamb of God slain from the foundations of the world." This verse says it was God's Sovereign plan for Jesus to die as Savior before the world was created in Genesis 1:1.

Most people confuse the role of "Messiah" and "Savior." To be Messiah you must live. To rule and reign you must live. Jesus came to die and be the Savior of every person on earth.

THERE IS NO DUAL COVENANT! The Bible says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Jesus Himself stated in Mark 14:8, Luke 24:46 and Mark 10:33-34 that He had come to die for the sins of the world as Savior. Again, you must live to be Messiah. You cannot be both Messiah and Savior!

John the Baptist introduced Jesus as the "Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). The only thing a lamb can do is to be slaughtered as a sin offering.

Fact: Jesus claimed to be Savior several times in the Bible. He never claimed to be Messiah to the Jewish people. In John 4 Jesus told the woman at the well, a Gentile, who He was, knowing the Jews and Samaritans had nothing to do with each other. I go into this in great detail in my latest book, "In Defense of Israel."

Fact: Jesus repeatedly in His ministry told His Disciples and followers to "tell no one" about His supernatural accomplishments. If Jesus wanted to be Messiah by popular demand, He would have wanted His supernatural exploits to be told by everyone to spread His popularity.

Sixty-four times in the four Gospels Jesus instructed those who were excited about His being the Messiah to "tell no one." He refused the role. He never promised to be Messiah. The Jews did not reject Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who refused to be the reigning Messiah because it was God's Sovereign will for Him to die on the cross.

Fact: Bible proof that Jesus did not come to be Messiah is found in Matthew 26:26-30 where Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi, was celebrating Passover with His 12 Disciples in what Christians call "The Lord's Supper."

In the Passover there are five cups of wine that Jesus and His Disciples would drink together. These five cups have been and still are celebrated by observant Jews who keep the Passover.

The fifth cup is the Messiah's Cup. Luke 26:28, Jesus claims to be the Savior of the world by saying, "For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sin."

In the next verse, Luke 26:29, Jesus rejects the Messiah's Cup saying, "But I say unto you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's Kingdom."

Jesus rejected the Messiah's Cup because He knew He was about to die. He promised His Disciples that He would drink the Messiah's Cup when He returns to earth the second time as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Fact: If an Almighty and Sovereign God sent His Son into the world the first time to be Messiah...God failed! The truth is, God cannot fail...never.
Jesus was sent to the earth the first time to die as the Lamb of God.

I trust this simple explanation will clarify any concerns you might have concerning Jesus the Messiah and Jesus the Savior. Let us prepare for the soon coming of King Jesus, our Deliverer and Lord of Lords. It will be very soon!

BlessedinHim
November 16th, 2007, 06:50 PM
Jesus is messiah and saviour. He now lives and He does reign in the hearts of His believers. He will riegn all in the millenium as a physical king, although now, He is a spiritual King. Jesus is still the King of Kings.

The Sower
November 16th, 2007, 07:00 PM
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=19167

previous thread that was locked

goinghome
November 16th, 2007, 07:25 PM
hello everyone, This thread is reguarding to John Hagees' thread
that was locked. I took it upon myself to contact the ministry and pass them the thread that was locked. This is the email that they wrote me. I wanted to post it to see what u guys have to say about it.

Email Letter responding back to the previous thread that was locked.




We received an inquiry from you on a quote from Pastor’s new book “In Defense of Israel”. Accept our apologies for the delay in contacting you. Pastor has written a response to answer your concerns.

We thank you for taking the time to contact us. May you and your family be blessed in all you do.

JESUS: MESSIAH OR SAVIOR?

Many Christians have constructed a catch 22 concerning Jesus as Messiah. The catch 22 is this:
"Jesus came to be Messiah but because the Jews rejected Him as Messiah He had to go to the cross, hence the Jews are the Christ Killers."

Fact: According to Webster's Dictionary the word "Messiah" means "the expected king who delivers from oppressors." A Messiah is one who rules and reigns over a given people.

Fact: The God of the Bible is absolutely sovereign! That means He is in control of everything in heaven and on earth all the time. If God is not sovereign; He can't be God.

Question: What was God's Sovereign will for Jesus Christ from the foundations of the earth?

Revelation 13:8 reads that Jesus Christ was the "Lamb of God slain from the foundations of the world." This verse says it was God's Sovereign plan for Jesus to die as Savior before the world was created in Genesis 1:1.

Most people confuse the role of "Messiah" and "Savior." To be Messiah you must live. To rule and reign you must live. Jesus came to die and be the Savior of every person on earth.

THERE IS NO DUAL COVENANT! The Bible says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Jesus Himself stated in Mark 14:8, Luke 24:46 and Mark 10:33-34 that He had come to die for the sins of the world as Savior. Again, you must live to be Messiah. You cannot be both Messiah and Savior!

John the Baptist introduced Jesus as the "Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). The only thing a lamb can do is to be slaughtered as a sin offering.

Fact: Jesus claimed to be Savior several times in the Bible. He never claimed to be Messiah to the Jewish people. In John 4 Jesus told the woman at the well, a Gentile, who He was, knowing the Jews and Samaritans had nothing to do with each other. I go into this in great detail in my latest book, "In Defense of Israel."

Fact: Jesus repeatedly in His ministry told His Disciples and followers to "tell no one" about His supernatural accomplishments. If Jesus wanted to be Messiah by popular demand, He would have wanted His supernatural exploits to be told by everyone to spread His popularity.

Sixty-four times in the four Gospels Jesus instructed those who were excited about His being the Messiah to "tell no one." He refused the role. He never promised to be Messiah. The Jews did not reject Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who refused to be the reigning Messiah because it was God's Sovereign will for Him to die on the cross.

Fact: Bible proof that Jesus did not come to be Messiah is found in Matthew 26:26-30 where Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi, was celebrating Passover with His 12 Disciples in what Christians call "The Lord's Supper."

In the Passover there are five cups of wine that Jesus and His Disciples would drink together. These five cups have been and still are celebrated by observant Jews who keep the Passover.

The fifth cup is the Messiah's Cup. Luke 26:28, Jesus claims to be the Savior of the world by saying, "For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sin."

In the next verse, Luke 26:29, Jesus rejects the Messiah's Cup saying, "But I say unto you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's Kingdom."

Jesus rejected the Messiah's Cup because He knew He was about to die. He promised His Disciples that He would drink the Messiah's Cup when He returns to earth the second time as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Fact: If an Almighty and Sovereign God sent His Son into the world the first time to be Messiah...God failed! The truth is, God cannot fail...never.
Jesus was sent to the earth the first time to die as the Lamb of God.

I trust this simple explanation will clarify any concerns you might have concerning Jesus the Messiah and Jesus the Savior. Let us prepare for the soon coming of King Jesus, our Deliverer and Lord of Lords. It will be very soon!

IMHO, the Hagee group is not understanding what sovereign will means, among other things. Jesus did come as the Messiah, that was God's sovereign will. Jesus realized they did not accept Him as such, therefore He would die at their hands and become Savior to gentiles as well, which is also God's perfect plan. It does not mean God would have failed, it means that God knows what will happen ahead of time and will arrange for it to all work for good. If the Jews would have accepted Him as Messiah, He would have been Messiah, so yes, He did come as the Messiah. God knew this, and made a better plan, and also made Him Savior. Why is this so hard?:scratch Are they Calvinists too? Oh no, Word of Faith Calvinists :runhills:runhills:runhills:runaway:snap

roadrunner570
November 16th, 2007, 07:28 PM
It almost sounds like he will say one thing to appease his jewish friends, but will then say another to appease his Christian supporters. I mean, I could be wrong, but thats how it appears.

BlessedinHim
November 16th, 2007, 07:29 PM
IMHO, the Hagee group is not understanding what sovereign will means, among other things. Jesus did come as the Messiah, that was God's sovereign will. Jesus realized they did not accept Him as such, therefore He would die at their hands and become Savior to gentiles as well, which is also God's perfect plan. It does not mean God would have failed, it means that God knows what will happen ahead of time and will arrange for it to all work for good. If the Jews would have accepted Him as Messiah, He would have been Messiah, so yes, He did come as the Messiah. God knew this, and made a better plan, and also made Him Savior. Why is this so hard?:scratch Are they Calvinists too? Oh no, Word of Faith Calvinists :runhills:runhills:runhills:runaway:snap

oh my. :idunno :heh

A Berean
November 16th, 2007, 07:32 PM
Bunch of double talk and doublespeak:tsk!! He is in error, and he is a WoF "preacher- all it takes for me to shun him.

A Berean
November 16th, 2007, 07:33 PM
IMHO, the Hagee group is not understanding what sovereign will means, among other things. Jesus did come as the Messiah, that was God's sovereign will. Jesus realized they did not accept Him as such, therefore He would die at their hands and become Savior to gentiles as well, which is also God's perfect plan. It does not mean God would have failed, it means that God knows what will happen ahead of time and will arrange for it to all work for good. If the Jews would have accepted Him as Messiah, He would have been Messiah, so yes, He did come as the Messiah. God knew this, and made a better plan, and also made Him Savior. Why is this so hard?:scratch Are they Calvinists too? Oh no, Word of Faith Calvinists :runhills:runhills:runhills:runaway:snap

Amen, going!

worm
November 16th, 2007, 08:01 PM
:spy i think jhon hagge is a undercover agent of the vatican.. and all the folks in his church need to wake up!!! and run from there as fast as they can....check out this brother who will expose him......

:popcornbag

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?SpeakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&Keyword=Dr.^Scott^Johnson

worm
November 16th, 2007, 08:02 PM
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?SpeakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&Keyword=Dr.^Scott^Johnson