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blitzkreig
December 11th, 2007, 03:51 PM
Please consider the harm which is done when Israel is "replaced" by the "Church". Or where the "two" are "shoe horned" into "one" giving no acknowledgement to how individuals might join the Body of Christ, but that Israel herself continues to exist in prophecy as a separate entity ... through to the end.

Often called "Replacement Theology".

When we merge the two, I believe we do irreparable harm to the doctrine and blessings due to each of them . When the significance (and prominence) of the differences are ignored ... :preach

Anyway I will leave it up to Sperry Lewis Chafer and his Volume I Prolegomena to his 8 volume "Systematic Theology".

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The Book of Acts and the Epistles introduce the fact of a new classification of humanity termed the Church which group is, also, properly designated as a part of the New Creation since each individual within the group has experienced the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15).

The works of Systematic Theology generally have recognized the redeemed people of this age, but only as a supposed sequence or continuation in the progress of the divine purpose in Israel. They refer to “the Old Testament Church” and to “the New Testament Church” as together constituting component parts of one divine project, thus failing to recognize those distinctions between Israel and the Church which, being so radical in character, serve to indicate the widest possible difference between them—difference as to origin, difference as to character and responsibility, and difference as to destiny. There are at least twenty-four far-reaching distinctions yet to be observed between Israel and the Church, while there are about twelve major features common to both; but the obvious similarities do not set aside the differences. The fact that revelation concerning both Israel and the Church includes the truth about God, holiness, sin, and redemption by blood, does not eliminate a far greater body of truth in which it is disclosed that Israelites become such by a natural birth while Christians become such by a spiritual birth; that Israelites were appointed to live and serve under a meritorious, legal system, while Christians live and serve under a gracious system; that Israelites, as a nation, have their citizenship now and their future destiny centered only in the earth, reaching on to the new earth which is yet to be, while Christians have their citizenship and future destiny centered only in heaven, extending on into the new heavens that are yet to be (for both earthly and heavenly blessings see Rev. 21:1–22:7; 2 Pet. 3:10–13; Heb. 1:10–12; Isa. 65:17; 66:22).

With respect to humanity, the time from Adam until now is generally conceded by those who accept the Scripture testimony to be about six millenniums, these being divided into three time-periods of about two millenniums each. In the period from Adam to Abraham there was one stock or kind of humanity on the earth—Gentile; in the period from Abraham to Christ there were two—Jew and Gentile; and in the period from Pentecost to the present hour there have been and are three—Jews, Gentiles, and the Church. In the coming and final millennium there will be, according to much prediction, but two stocks or kinds of people on the earth—the Jew and the Gentile—, and as has been observed, these, having been marvelously transformed, continue as inhabitants of the new earth wherein righteousness dwells. Thus it is seen that the present dispensation only is characterized by the presence on earth of a third grouping of humanity—the Church. Not only did Christ anticipate this body of people (Matt. 16:18), but they appear along with Israel (1) as cosharers in the purpose of His incarnation, (2) as the subjects of His ministry, (3) as the objects of His death and resurrection, (4) as the beneficiaries of His second advent, and (5) as related to Him in His kingdom reign. Of these aspects of truth, it may be observed:

(1) There were two independent and widely different purposes in the incarnation. (a) On the Messianic side and in relation to His office as Israel’s King, Christ was born of a virgin and came into this human relationship with indisputable kingly rights in order that He might fulfill the Davidic Covenant (2 Sam. 7:8–18; Ps. 89:20–37; Jer. 33:21, 22, 25, 26). To the Virgin Mary the angel said, “And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end” (Luke 1:31–33); and as the rightful heir through human lineage, He will be the everlasting occupant of David’s earthly throne, and reign over the house of Jacob forever (Isa. 9:6, 7; Luke 1:33). (b) On the mediatorial and redemptive side and to fulfill the Abrahamic Covenant, it is equally true that by the incarnation the Mediator between God and man is provided with all the inexhaustible blessings which the theanthropic Mediator secures; and through the virgin birth the Kinsman-Redeemer is realized who, as typified by Boaz, is qualified to redeem the lost estate and claim His heavenly Bride—the Church.

While these two widely different objectives obtain in the incarnation, the general facts concerning the incarnation are common to both. When contemplating either the heavenly purpose in the Church or the earthly purpose in Israel, it should be observed that: (a) it was none other than the Second Person of the Godhead who came into this human relationship; (b) to do this He emptied Himself, becoming obedient to His Father’s will; (c) He took a human body, soul, and spirit; and (d) the union thus formed between the divine and human natures resulted in the incomparable theanthropic Person.

(2) Christ revealed two distinct lines of truth. In the first, He presented Himself as Israel’s Messiah and called upon that nation for their long predicted national repentance, in which He also declared the character of His earthly kingdom rule and Himself as the Fulfiller of the great Messianic purposes. At that time He said of Himself, “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 15:24). In sending out His disciples He commanded them, saying, “Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 10:5, 6). In the second, when Israel’s rejection of Him became apparent, He began to speak of His departure and second advent, and of a hitherto unannounced age which should intervene in which the gospel should be preached in all the world to Jew and Gentile alike, and His disciples, whose messages had before been restricted to Israel alone, were then commissioned to declare the glad tidings to every creature. A slight comparison of His farewell address to Israel—“… hated of all nations” (Matt. 23:37–25:46)—with His farewell word to those who had believed on Him to the saving of their souls (John 13:1–17:26), will disclose the most evident distinctions between Israel and the Church. Such contrasts could be drawn from the Gospels almost indefinitely, and without these distinctions in mind only perplexity can characterize the one who reads with attention.

(3) In His death and resurrection the same two widely different objectives are discernible. To Israel His death was a stumbling block (1 Cor. 1:23), nor was His death any part of His office as King over Israel—“Long live the king!”; yet, in His death Israel had her share to the extent that He dealt finally with the sins committed aforetime, which sins had been only covered according to the provisions of the Old Testament atonement (Rom. 3:25). By His the way was prepared for any individual Jew to be saved through faith in Him; and by His death a sufficient ground was secured whereon God will yet “take away” the sins of that nation at the time when “all Israel shall be saved” (Rom. 11:27). However, the nation Israel sustains no relation to the resurrection of Christ other than that which David foresaw, namely, that if Christ died He must be raised again from the dead in order that He might sit on David’s throne (Ps. 16:10; Acts 2:25–31). Over against this, it is revealed that Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for it (Eph. 5:25–27), and that His resurrection is the beginning of the New Creation of God, which includes the many sons whom He is bringing into glory (Heb. 2:10). In that New Creation relationship, the believer is in the resurrected Christ and the resurrected Christ is in the believer. This twofold unity establishes an identity of relationship which surpasses all human understanding. It is even likened by Christ to the unity which exists between the Persons of the Godhead (John 17:21–23). By the baptism of the Spirit, wrought, as it is for everyone, when one believes (1 Cor. 12:13), the saved one is joined to the Lord (1 Cor. 6:17; Gal. 3:27), and by that union with the resurrected Christ is made a partaker of His resurrection life (Col. 1:27), is translated out of the power of darkness into the kingdom of the Son of His love (Col. 1:13), is crucified, dead, and buried with Christ, and is raised to walk in newness of life (Rom. 6:2–4; Col. 3:1), is now seated with Christ in the heavenlies (Eph. 2:6), is a citizen of heaven (Phil. 3:20), is forgiven all trespasses (Col. 2:13), is justified (Rom. 5:1), and blessed with every spiritual blessing (Eph. 1:3). This vast body of truth, which is but slightly indicated here, is not found in the Old Testament, nor are the Old Testament saints ever said to be related thus to the resurrected Christ. It is impossible for these great disclosures to be fitted into a theological system which does not distinguish the heavenly character of the Church as in contrast to the earthly character of Israel. This failure on the part of these systems of theology to discern the character of the true Church, related wholly, as it is, to the resurrected Christ, accounts for the usual omission from these theological writings of any extended treatment of the doctrine of Christ’s resurrection and all related doctrines.

(4) The great events predicted for the close of the present age include the Day of Christ when the Church will be taken to be forever with the Lord—some by resurrection and some by translation (1 Cor. 15:35–53; 1 Thess. 4:13–17)—, and the Day of the Lord when Israel will be regathered, judged, and privileged to experience the fulfillment of all her earthly covenants in the land which has been given to her by the oath of Jehovah, which oath cannot be broken (Deut. 30:3–5; 2 Sam. 7:16; Ps. 89:34–37; Jer. 23:5, 6; 31:35–37; 33:25, 26).

(5) In the coming kingdom of Messiah the distinction between Israel and the Church is still more obvious. Israel, as a nation, is seen through prophetic vision to be on the earth as subjects of the kingdom and in her kingdom glory, while the Church is said to be coreigning with Christ (Rev. 20:6). As His Bride and Consort, it is the rightful place of the Church to share in His reign.

Two revelations were given to the Apostle Paul: (1) That of salvation to infinite perfection for individual Jew and Gentile alike through faith in Christ and on the ground of His death and resurrection (Gal. 1:11, 12). That this salvation is an exercise of grace which far surpasses anything hitherto experienced in the Old Testament, is clearly revealed in 1 Peter 1:10, where it is stated, “Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you.” (2) That of the new divine purpose in the outcalling of the Church (Eph. 3:6). This new purpose is not merely that Gentiles are to be blessed. Old Testament prophecy had long predicted Gentile blessings. The purpose consists in the fact that a new body of humanity was to be formed from both Jews and Gentiles, a relationship in which neither Jew nor Gentile position is retained, but where Christ is all and in all (Gal. 3:28; Col. 3:11). The Apostle likewise records the former estate of Gentiles and Jews and the present estate of those who are now saved, whether of one group or the other. We read concerning the Gentile, “that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world” (Eph. 2:12). Of the Jew we read, “Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen” (Rom. 9:4, 5). But of the Church we read, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved” (Eph. 1:3–6).

With the same fundamental distinction in view, the Apostle makes separate enumeration of the Jews, the Gentiles, and the Church of God (1 Cor. 10:32); and again in Ephesians 2:11 he refers to the Gentiles as the Uncircumcision, and the Jews as the Circumcision made with hands; but in Colossians 2:11 he refers to the Circumcision made without hands. The latter designation indicates the supernatural standing and character of those who comprise the Body of Christ.

Though in its time established and imposed by Jehovah, Judaism did not merge into Christianity, nor does it now provide the slightest advantage to the individual Jew who would become a Christian. With reference to Christianity, Jews and Gentiles are now, alike, “under sin.” They need identically the same grace of God (Rom. 3:9), and that grace is offered to them on precisely the same terms (Rom. 10:12). Nicodemus, who was apparently a most perfect specimen of Judaism, was told by Christ that he must be born again, and the Apostle Paul prayed that the Israelites who had “a zeal for God” might be saved. They were at fault in that after the new and limitless privileges in grace had come through Christ (John 1:17), they still clung to the old meritorious features of Judaism, “going about to establish their own righteousness” and not submitting themselves to the imputed righteousness of God (Rom. 10:1–3).

The one who cannot recognize that the Church is a new, heavenly purpose of God, absolutely disassociated from both Jew and Gentile (Gal. 3:28; Col. 3:11), but sees the Church only as an ever increasing company of redeemed people gathered alike from all ages of human history, will perhaps do well to ponder the following questions: Why the rent veil? Why Pentecost? Why the distinctive message of the Epistles? Why the “better” things of the Book of Hebrews? Why the Jewish branches broken off? Why the present headship and ministry of Christ in heaven? Why the present visitation to the Gentiles and not before? Why the present indwelling by the Spirit of all who believe? Why the baptism of the Spirit—unique in the New Testament? Why two companies of redeemed in the new Jerusalem? Why only earthly promises to Israel and only heavenly promises to the Church? Why should the divinely given rule of life be changed from law to grace? Why is Israel likened to the repudiated and yet to be restored wife of Jehovah, and the Church likened to the espoused bride of Christ? Why the two objectives in the incarnation and resurrection? Why the new day—the Day of Christ—with its rapture and resurrection of believers and with its rewards for service and suffering—a day never once mentioned in the Old Testament? Why the “mysteries” of the New Testament, including the Body of Christ? Why the New Creation, comprising, as it does, all those who by the Spirit are joined to the Lord and are forever in Christ? How could there be a Church, constructed as she is, until the death of Christ, the resurrection of Christ, the ascension of Christ, and the Day of Pentecost? How could the Church, in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile, be any part of Israel in this or any other age?

Like the doctrine of the resurrection of Christ, the doctrine of the true Church with her supernatural and exalted position and her heavenly destiny is largely omitted from theological writings only because these aspects of truth cannot be fitted into a Judaized system to which Systematic Theology has too often been committed. The stupendous spiritual loss of such an omission is only slightly reflected in the failure on the part of believers to understand their heavenly calling with its corresponding God-designed incentive to a holy life.

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Zaphnathpaaneah
December 11th, 2007, 04:49 PM
Ever notice how replacement theologists want the Church to have all the blessing of Israel, but they sure don't want any of the judgements that were placed upon it?

That part they seem to ignore.

blitzkreig
December 11th, 2007, 06:28 PM
Ever notice how replacement theologists want the Church to have all the blessing of Israel, but they sure don't want any of the judgements that were placed upon it?

That part they seem to ignore.So true.

When one fails to differentiate between the programs and plans God has for each the Church and Israel all doctrine becomes a soup which one has to pick away at ... such as avoiding the judgments ... or the issue of the when and if of the rapture.

I have an article somewhere in which it is Scofield I thnk who calls it the "greatest disappointment of the Church age" ... I will try to find it and post it sometime ...

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Buzzardhut
December 11th, 2007, 06:31 PM
Replacement theology is about to be replaced with the Millennium

blitzkreig
December 11th, 2007, 06:37 PM
Replacement theology is about to be replaced with the Millennium AMEN. THAT is a good one ... :yeah

Train
December 21st, 2007, 10:01 PM
Anyway I will leave it up to Sperry Lewis Chafer and his Volume I Prolegomena to his 8 volume "Systematic Theology".

----------------------------

The fact that revelation concerning both Israel and the Church includes the truth about God, holiness, sin, and redemption by blood, does not eliminate a far greater body of truth in which it is disclosed that Israelites become such by a natural birth while Christians become such by a spiritual birth; that Israelites were appointed to live and serve under a meritorious, legal system, while Christians live and serve under a gracious system; that Israelites, as a nation, have their citizenship now and their future destiny centered only in the earth, reaching on to the new earth which is yet to be, while Christians have their citizenship and future destiny centered only in heaven, extending on into the new heavens that are yet to be (for both earthly and heavenly blessings see Rev. 21:1–22:7; 2 Pet. 3:10–13; Heb. 1:10–12; Isa. 65:17; 66:22).


This is all new to me, but I have wondered what people mean when they talk of "replacement" theology. Thanks for posting it.

I have questions though about the three points I quoted above. The first point, that Israelites have their citizenship by a natural birth, would seem to imply that Jews don't need to be born again in order to avoid hell. Is that right? What about what Jesus told Nicodemus?

I don't understand what Chafer means in the second point that "Israelites were appointed to live and serve under a meritorious, legal system." Is he saying that Jews have available to them some kind of works righteousness? What about what Paul said about Abraham's righteousness being from faith?

The third point is kind of confusing to me just because I always thought that after the parousia heaven and earth will be the same place. I wasn't taught that, it's just based on my definition of heaven (heaven is where God is) and how I interpreted Revelation 21:3: "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them. . ."

Train
December 21st, 2007, 10:15 PM
Oh, this is also confusing to me:

Please consider the harm which is done when (5) In the coming kingdom of Messiah the distinction between Israel and the Church is still more obvious. Israel, as a nation, is seen through prophetic vision to be on the earth as subjects of the kingdom and in her kingdom glory, while the Church is said to be coreigning with Christ (Rev. 20:6). As His Bride and Consort, it is the rightful place of the Church to share in His reign.


If a particular Jew is saved by faith in Christ, then in the situation described above, will that particular Jew be coreigning with Christ in heaven or on earth as a subject of the kingdom? If you say in Heaven then doesn't that imply that God's plan for Christians is better than His plan for Jews? Because if a person could go either way wouldn't God give him the better place? On reading again, it seems to me like Chafer would say the person would be in Heaven. But the whole thing seems to me like a kind of limited universalism, where all Jews alive at a certain time avoid hell either by their faith in Christ or by virtue of their birth.

iSong6:3
December 31st, 2007, 08:41 AM
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Clouds
January 2nd, 2008, 02:40 PM
This is all new to me, but I have wondered what people mean when they talk of "replacement" theology. Thanks for posting it.

I have questions though about the three points I quoted above. The first point, that Israelites have their citizenship by a natural birth, would seem to imply that Jews don't need to be born again in order to avoid hell. Is that right? What about what Jesus told Nicodemus?

The new dispensation of grace, starting at Pentecost, requires that both Jews and Gentiles have to be born again in order to be saved.

Before Pentecost, Israelites obtained salvation by obeying in faith the requirements of the Mosaic system (the dispensation age of law). Natural birth, without proper obedience of the law, never guaranteed salvation for an Israelite prior to Pentecost. Natural birth, even with proper obedience of Mosaic law, does not work for anyone now. All have to be born again to be saved now.

Train
January 2nd, 2008, 06:23 PM
Before Pentecost, Israelites obtained salvation by obeying in faith the requirements of the Mosaic system (the dispensation age of law).


What does that mean "obeying in faith"? Faith in what? Are you implying that Jesus death was only for those who lived after Him, and that those who lived before Him had to somehow work their way to salvation? If the Israelites obtained salvation through the Mosaic law, then why does Paul say that the law was added so that the trespass might increase (Romans 5:20)?