acceptedintheBeloved
July 19th, 2011, 10:34 PM
I like the way you think! :hug All signs given to us watchers by the Lord point to September. Whether this means rapture or just something huge prophetically, I don't know. However the incredible convergence of events is certainly God-orchestrated, and all landing in September.
And it is a shame that we can't discuss the feasts. The first four feasts of Israel were fulfilled by Jesus to the EXACT days and times. I see no reason why the next 3 shouldn't be, God is very calculating. Unique to the 5th feast is that no one knows the day or the hour of its beginning, and when Jesus Himself said "no one knows the day or hour..." that particular phrase in Greek is a Jewish idiom exclusive to Rosh Hashanah. Could mean nothing, could mean everything. But considering this is GOD we're talking about, 'nothing' isn't really an option.
:wave
First off, the feast of Shavuot/Pentecost has not yet been fully fulfilled. (Joel 2:27-32; Acts 2:17-21), but will be during Israel's tribulation period (see those passages).
Secondly, the "no man knows the day or the hour" type verses are in the context of His Second Coming (to the earth), not our rapture... so it (the idiom) would apply at that time.
Thirdly (I have several more points, but this is adequate, for now :D ), well, let me save time by posting a portion of an article by Dr. Thomas Ice, which I have posted before (but I don't have the time to bold & highlight, as usual, so please read through it carefully).
I agree with this quoted portion. I think it is very important to grasp these points:
ISRAEL'S FEASTS AND THE CHURCH
It must be admitted that most dispensational premillennialists have tended to see at least one of the Israel's feasts fulfilled by the church. The feast of Pentecost is usually seen as fulfilled by the church at her birthday in Acts 2 by many dispensationalists. This creates a problem since it is inconsistent with maintaining a consistent distinction between God's plan for Israel and His plan for the church. This errant notion that the church fulfills the Feast of Pentecost gives ground and a basis to Miller's perspective that the church also fulfills the Feast of Trumpets in the rapture. If this were true, then it would also follow that the rapture would have to occur on the day in which that feast is celebrated. However, I do not think that the church fulfills any of Israel's feasts. Israel's feasts have been and will continue to be fulfilled in relation to Israel.
Terry C. Hulbert wrote a doctoral dissertation in 1965 at Dallas Theological Seminary entitled "The Eschatological Significance of Israel's Annual Feasts." Hulbert declares,
The seven appointed times were given as a typical presentation of the commitments made to Israel in the Abrahamic Covenant and those which amplified it. As these can be fulfilled only by Israel, so the typology of the feasts can relate only to that nation. (2)
This does not mean that the church is not built upon the sacrificial work of Christ on the cross. This is certainly the basis for forgiveness of sin in any dispensation. However, it is to say that the seven feasts of Israel do serve as a specific typological prophecy picturing God's plan of redemption for His people Israel. It is important to note what Hulbert has said about the fulfillment of the Feast of Pentecost. His views are illustrated in the chart "Israel's Feast Summary," which I think best expresses the Biblical intent that all seven feasts are to be seen as a fulfillment for Israel and not the church.
The fourth feast did not foreshadow a church composed of sin-prone Jewish and Gentile believers pictured by two loaves of unleavened bread. This point is important, for if the church had fulfilled this feast, it could also fulfill the last three as the Amillennarian claims. However, the church is not revealed in the typology of any of the feasts, being related to them in the same way it is related to unconditional covenants made to Israel. It benefits from God's fulfillments to that nation, but is distinct from it. (1)
If we are going to consistently apply the Grammatical-Historical method of interpretation, commonly known as the normal or literal hermeneutic, then we cannot see any of Israel's feasts being fulfilled by God's program for the church. Why? Because these feasts are given in Leviticus 23 to Israel as part of her law. The church has been given the Lord's Table as the feast we are to celebrate "from now on until the kingdom of God comes" (Luke 22:18). If we see any of the feasts being fulfilled by the church then we are practicing the same kind of "replacement theology" which many practice, but to a greater extreme, who see the church replacing Israel in God's plan. Nowhere does the New Testament speak of the church fulfilling any of Israel's feasts. Therefore, since Israel's feasts are fulfilled only by Israel and not by the church, then Rosh HaShanah or the Feast of Trumpets cannot be a prediction of the rapture of the church. Israel's fifth feast does not give any insight into the day of the year on which the rapture will occur.
Hulbert's summary of the purpose for the fulfillment of Israel's feast makes the best sense within the framework of a consistent literal hermeneutic.
When God fulfilled the first four feasts He had provided everything necessary for Israel to enter into literal kingdom blessing--redemption, separation, resurrection, and the presence of the Holy Spirit. Israel's rejection of these, however, made necessary a national change of heart before the Kingdom could be established. Foreknowing this, God included the Feasts of Trumpets and Day of Atonement in the annual cycle. Thus, the Feast of Trumpets predicted God's alerting of the nation for the impending event which would bring about repentance. The Feast of the Day of Atonement predicted, not the death of Christ which had already been typified in the Passover, but the new reaction of Israel to the Redeemer's death. This change will take place when the believing Remnant repents during the Tribulation period. The event which fulfills this sixth feast is identified as God's intervention to save Israel from destruction as Gentile armies attack Jerusalem. (2-3)
Israel as a nation officially rejected in turn each spiritual provision offered by God and made available through the fulfillment of the first four feasts. The paschal lamb of God pointed out by John the Baptist was rejected as an imposter. The resurrection of Christ, as it answered to the Feast of Firstfruits, was suppressed in its proclamation by the bribe money paid to the sentries, . . . Finally, the coming of the Spirit was rejected at Pentecost as the Jews taunted the apostles with charges of drunkenness.
By the time of the close of Acts chapter 2, God had done all He could do for Israel until they repented as a nation. Thus, the significance of Peter's second sermon in Acts 3 was that it reemphasized the condition of millennial blessing already laid down in the Old Testament, but as yet unfulfilled. . . .
http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/israels-fall-feasts-and-date-setting-of-rapture
(Note: I don't agree with the entire article at link, but I do agree with the portion quoted above. :hat )
Israel's feasts were given to Israel (Lev 23:2, 10, 24, 34, 44), and IMO, will aid in pointing them to Christ during their coming tribulation period.
ETA: One last little point :aha ... why would the first three feasts be fulfilled all in the same year of each other, but the last three (supposedly) be spread out over (at least) a seven year period? I don't believe this is an accurate way to view it. JMHO :)
And technically, "signs" are for Israel, not the Church. (Even "the sabbath" is a "sign" between God and the children of Israel - Ex 31:17; Matt 24:20; Col 2:16-17; 1 Cor 1:22 "For the Jews require a sign" - there will also be "signs" [attesting miracles] during the trib, etc)
And it is a shame that we can't discuss the feasts. The first four feasts of Israel were fulfilled by Jesus to the EXACT days and times. I see no reason why the next 3 shouldn't be, God is very calculating. Unique to the 5th feast is that no one knows the day or the hour of its beginning, and when Jesus Himself said "no one knows the day or hour..." that particular phrase in Greek is a Jewish idiom exclusive to Rosh Hashanah. Could mean nothing, could mean everything. But considering this is GOD we're talking about, 'nothing' isn't really an option.
:wave
First off, the feast of Shavuot/Pentecost has not yet been fully fulfilled. (Joel 2:27-32; Acts 2:17-21), but will be during Israel's tribulation period (see those passages).
Secondly, the "no man knows the day or the hour" type verses are in the context of His Second Coming (to the earth), not our rapture... so it (the idiom) would apply at that time.
Thirdly (I have several more points, but this is adequate, for now :D ), well, let me save time by posting a portion of an article by Dr. Thomas Ice, which I have posted before (but I don't have the time to bold & highlight, as usual, so please read through it carefully).
I agree with this quoted portion. I think it is very important to grasp these points:
ISRAEL'S FEASTS AND THE CHURCH
It must be admitted that most dispensational premillennialists have tended to see at least one of the Israel's feasts fulfilled by the church. The feast of Pentecost is usually seen as fulfilled by the church at her birthday in Acts 2 by many dispensationalists. This creates a problem since it is inconsistent with maintaining a consistent distinction between God's plan for Israel and His plan for the church. This errant notion that the church fulfills the Feast of Pentecost gives ground and a basis to Miller's perspective that the church also fulfills the Feast of Trumpets in the rapture. If this were true, then it would also follow that the rapture would have to occur on the day in which that feast is celebrated. However, I do not think that the church fulfills any of Israel's feasts. Israel's feasts have been and will continue to be fulfilled in relation to Israel.
Terry C. Hulbert wrote a doctoral dissertation in 1965 at Dallas Theological Seminary entitled "The Eschatological Significance of Israel's Annual Feasts." Hulbert declares,
The seven appointed times were given as a typical presentation of the commitments made to Israel in the Abrahamic Covenant and those which amplified it. As these can be fulfilled only by Israel, so the typology of the feasts can relate only to that nation. (2)
This does not mean that the church is not built upon the sacrificial work of Christ on the cross. This is certainly the basis for forgiveness of sin in any dispensation. However, it is to say that the seven feasts of Israel do serve as a specific typological prophecy picturing God's plan of redemption for His people Israel. It is important to note what Hulbert has said about the fulfillment of the Feast of Pentecost. His views are illustrated in the chart "Israel's Feast Summary," which I think best expresses the Biblical intent that all seven feasts are to be seen as a fulfillment for Israel and not the church.
The fourth feast did not foreshadow a church composed of sin-prone Jewish and Gentile believers pictured by two loaves of unleavened bread. This point is important, for if the church had fulfilled this feast, it could also fulfill the last three as the Amillennarian claims. However, the church is not revealed in the typology of any of the feasts, being related to them in the same way it is related to unconditional covenants made to Israel. It benefits from God's fulfillments to that nation, but is distinct from it. (1)
If we are going to consistently apply the Grammatical-Historical method of interpretation, commonly known as the normal or literal hermeneutic, then we cannot see any of Israel's feasts being fulfilled by God's program for the church. Why? Because these feasts are given in Leviticus 23 to Israel as part of her law. The church has been given the Lord's Table as the feast we are to celebrate "from now on until the kingdom of God comes" (Luke 22:18). If we see any of the feasts being fulfilled by the church then we are practicing the same kind of "replacement theology" which many practice, but to a greater extreme, who see the church replacing Israel in God's plan. Nowhere does the New Testament speak of the church fulfilling any of Israel's feasts. Therefore, since Israel's feasts are fulfilled only by Israel and not by the church, then Rosh HaShanah or the Feast of Trumpets cannot be a prediction of the rapture of the church. Israel's fifth feast does not give any insight into the day of the year on which the rapture will occur.
Hulbert's summary of the purpose for the fulfillment of Israel's feast makes the best sense within the framework of a consistent literal hermeneutic.
When God fulfilled the first four feasts He had provided everything necessary for Israel to enter into literal kingdom blessing--redemption, separation, resurrection, and the presence of the Holy Spirit. Israel's rejection of these, however, made necessary a national change of heart before the Kingdom could be established. Foreknowing this, God included the Feasts of Trumpets and Day of Atonement in the annual cycle. Thus, the Feast of Trumpets predicted God's alerting of the nation for the impending event which would bring about repentance. The Feast of the Day of Atonement predicted, not the death of Christ which had already been typified in the Passover, but the new reaction of Israel to the Redeemer's death. This change will take place when the believing Remnant repents during the Tribulation period. The event which fulfills this sixth feast is identified as God's intervention to save Israel from destruction as Gentile armies attack Jerusalem. (2-3)
Israel as a nation officially rejected in turn each spiritual provision offered by God and made available through the fulfillment of the first four feasts. The paschal lamb of God pointed out by John the Baptist was rejected as an imposter. The resurrection of Christ, as it answered to the Feast of Firstfruits, was suppressed in its proclamation by the bribe money paid to the sentries, . . . Finally, the coming of the Spirit was rejected at Pentecost as the Jews taunted the apostles with charges of drunkenness.
By the time of the close of Acts chapter 2, God had done all He could do for Israel until they repented as a nation. Thus, the significance of Peter's second sermon in Acts 3 was that it reemphasized the condition of millennial blessing already laid down in the Old Testament, but as yet unfulfilled. . . .
http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/israels-fall-feasts-and-date-setting-of-rapture
(Note: I don't agree with the entire article at link, but I do agree with the portion quoted above. :hat )
Israel's feasts were given to Israel (Lev 23:2, 10, 24, 34, 44), and IMO, will aid in pointing them to Christ during their coming tribulation period.
ETA: One last little point :aha ... why would the first three feasts be fulfilled all in the same year of each other, but the last three (supposedly) be spread out over (at least) a seven year period? I don't believe this is an accurate way to view it. JMHO :)
And technically, "signs" are for Israel, not the Church. (Even "the sabbath" is a "sign" between God and the children of Israel - Ex 31:17; Matt 24:20; Col 2:16-17; 1 Cor 1:22 "For the Jews require a sign" - there will also be "signs" [attesting miracles] during the trib, etc)