FunMudder
July 28th, 2007, 09:29 AM
We will have to agree to disagree then.
80% of people saying they are a Christian does not mean diddley when you look at what is going on in too many of the "Christian" churches. If we are so overwhelmingly a country for the Lord, WHY is there so much of the new age pop culture being sold/promoted and accepted inside the church? From the enourmous amount of secular movies, tv shows, music and magazines, what is it that people are buying? Where is our cultures focus? Follow where they are spending their money and it tells you plenty. Only 20% of the population is not funding all this.
And just because you don't believe in UFO's does not mean there is not a huge subculture devoted to it :idunno
I learned in statistics class that 94% of all statistics are made up on the spot anyway. So a poll doesn't really mean anything. You walk into a evangelical conference and take a poll on how many people believe in Jesus as the only way, and you are going to get a drastically different number than if you walked into ecumenical conference.
It's all about where those polls are taken.
Our nation as a whole no longer reflects a God centered country. Now, how can we have 80% of the voting people believe in one Holy God, and yet have so many leaders whose fruit show nothing that reflects Biblical values? Abortion, violence, drug addiction, rebelliousness, reckless sex. All of these things are on the rise. What does that say about the fruit of those "80%"?
There is a vast difference between people calling themselves a Christian, and the people living like a Christian. Fred Phelps calls himself a Christian, but what does his life show about his faith?
I never said that unbelievers should be running to the Bible because of these lights in the sky. :doh What I said was that a MESSENGER from God would not be leaving confusion instead of actually delivering a message. These lights could be a freaky helicopter for all I know, BUT if it is something supernatural, it does not have the criteria of a messenger of God.
ACS1
August 2nd, 2007, 06:55 PM
The goal of Satan is to destroy God’s people and discredit the cause of Christ. He is not to be taken lightly. He is real. He was an angel, the highest of all created beings, who rebelled against God out of pride.
1 Peter 5:8 “Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary the devil, prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.”
Jude 9: Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him in a railing judgment but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
Is Satan for real?
The authority of the Bible: Genesis 3:1; 1 Chronicles 21:1; Revelation 12:9
The testimony of Christ: Matthew 4:1-11; also Christ refers to Satan 25 times.
The reality of demons: Satan is their “prince” (Luke 11:15)
Who is Satan?
A created spirit: Job 1:6; Colossians 1:16
An angel: Matthew 25:41; Revelation 12:7
A cherub: Ezekiel 28:14
The highest of all created beings: Ezekiel 28:14
Where did he come from?
Created perfect: Ezekiel 28:12-13
Had a heavenly estate: Jude 6
A guardian of God’s glory: Ezekiel 28:14
The occasion of his sin = power and beauty: Ezekiel 28
The nature of his sin = pride: Isaiah 14:13; 1 Timothy 3:6
The cause of his sin = personal, free choice: Habakkuk 1:13; James 1:13
Our responsibility is to become acutely aware of Satan’s methods but not preoccupied by them. We can become educated about his schemes by examining his names in Scripture; all of them reveal something of his tactics. Scripture is very clear about his agenda and his targets. But he is limited and we have no need to fear him if we follow God’s instructions in faith.
2 Corinthians 2:11: Paul agrees to forgive a brother along with a Corinthian church in order that “no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.”
The vital question: how can we make sure we are not ignorant of his schemes?
Satan’s name reveals his tactics:
Satan (adversary): Job 1:6-7; 1 Thessalonians 2:18
Devil (slanderer): 1 Peter 5:8
Lucifer (son of the morning): Isaiah 14:12
Beelzebub (lord of the flies): Matthew 12:24
Belial (a false god): 2 Corinthians 6:15
Evil one: 1 John 5:19
Tempter: 1 Thessalonians 3:5
Prince of this world: John 12:31 (NIV)
Accuser of the brethren: Revelation 12:10
Representations include:
Serpent: Genesis 3
Dragon: Revelation 12
Angel of light: 2 Corinthians 11:14
Satan attacks God’s program, the church, by:
False philosophies: Colossians 2:8
False religions: 1 Corinthians 10:20
False ministers: 2 Corinthians 11:14-15
False doctrine: 1 John 2:18
False disciples: Matthew 13:24-30
False morals: 2 Thessalonians 2:7-12
Satan attacks God’s people by:
Directing governments: Daniel 10:13
Deceiving people: 2 Corinthians 4:4
Destroying lives: Hebrew 2:14
Persecuting the saints: Revelation 2:10
Preventing service: 1 Thessalonians 2:18
Promoting schisms: 2 Corinthians 2:10-11
Planting doubt: Genesis 3:1-5
Producing sects and cults: 1 Timothy 4:1
Provoking sin:
Anger: Ephesians 4:26-27
Pride: 1 Timothy 3:6
Worry: Matthew 13:22
Self-reliance: 1 Chronicles 21:1
Discouragement: 1 Peter 5:5-8
Worldliness: 1 John 2:16
Lying: Acts 5:3
Immorality: 1 Corinthians 5:1-2
Satan’s power is limited.
Balance and wisdom are crucial in our assessment of the spiritual opposition. To assign too much or too little credit to the reality of demonic activity is to err greatly.
He is created, therefore not omniscient or infinite.
He can be resisted by the Christian: James 4:7
God places limitations on him: Job 1:12
We do not fight for victory; we fight from victory.
As believers in Christ, we are invincible. The Bible has given numerous promises of victory over the power of the enemy.
1 John 4:4: “You are from God, little children, and have over come them; because greater is He that is in you than he who is in the world.”
1 John 5:4-5: “Whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world – our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?”
Revelation 12:11: “They overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.”
James 4:7: “Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.”
deilands
August 3rd, 2007, 07:53 AM
Ok -
So now let me dig a little deeper. Throwing out all ASSUMPTIONS of who Satan is: In other words. .where in Scripture does it say that Satan ever really was an Angel of Light.
Secondly, where in Scripture does it name Satan as Lucifer (Which it does not).
Thirdly, how can Satan be created "Evil from the beginning" or a "murderer from the beginning" and be an Angel?
Fourthly, while I do not deny that angels fell - does that mean that Satan was one of them?
I have been having a large issue with believing that Satan is being spoken of in the old testament as an angel. Jesus never refers to him as such, and Scripture in direct relation to him only refers to him as a Serpent. So ignoring assumptions (which do things we shall not mention), can we then say that Satan was created evil from his inception?
-Daniel
deilands
August 3rd, 2007, 07:56 AM
Some Links:
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2215
http://www.tektonics.org/gk/heylucy.html
Short links mind you, I dont want you to have to read a gazillion pages. Still - understanding prophetic symbolism and the style of prophetic writing, it cannot be said that Satan is literally or ever literally was an angel. He makes himself appear as one (which is interesting considering what Christianity by and large believes). Ahh, the joy of having Dante and Milton as our doctrine creators.
twelvesmaster
August 3rd, 2007, 08:23 AM
Ok -
So now let me dig a little deeper. Throwing out all ASSUMPTIONS of who Satan is: In other words. .where in Scripture does it say that Satan ever really was an Angel of Light. ......
From Smith's Bible Dictionary:
Lucifer
(light-bearer ), found in (Isaiah 14:12) coupled with the epithet "son of the morning," clearly signifies a "bright star," and probably what we call the morning star. In this passage it is a symbolical representation of the king of Babylon in his splendor and in his fall. Its application, from St. Jerome downward, to Satan in his fall from heaven arises probably from the fact that the Babylonian empire is in Scripture represented as the type of tyrannical and self idolizing power, and especially connected with the empire of the Evil One in the Apocalypse.
tom_roberts
August 3rd, 2007, 02:57 PM
Baal is identified as Satan by Jesus himself, Matt.10:25 Mark. 3:22 Luke 11:15.
Incredibly, the Bible explains where Satan currently resides, and connects him with forces in the atmosphere. . . Paul says we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and powers, with wicked spirits in high places, literally, "in the heavens" "in the aerial regions" Eph.6:12. Hence Satan is called "the prince of the Power of the air" "the prince of the aerial host" Eph.2:2. The confederation of rebel angels is seated in the atmospheric heaven in the spaces above and around our world
For who in the sky (the atmosphere),
shall be ranked with Jehovah,
who among the sons of the mighty
is like Jehovah? Psalm 89:6
"How art thou fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground,
which didst weaken the nations!"
(Interlinear) "O shining star, son of morning,
how you have fallen from the heavens...
For you said in your heart,
I will go up to the heavens;
I will raise my throne above the stars of God,
and I will sit in the mount of meeting
in the sides of the north...
I will be compared to the most high."
Ezekial 28:
You were the anointed cherub
that covers, and I had put you
in the holy height of God...
YOU WALKED UP AND DOWN
IN THE MIDST OF THE STONES OF FIRE...
You were perfect in your ways from the day
you were created, until iniquity was found in you.
3 Behold you are wiser than Daniel;
every one of the secret things
is not hidden to you...
15 You were perfect in your ways
from the day you were created,
until iniquity was found in you.
16 By the multitude of your trade
they filled your midst with violence, and you sinned.
So I cast you profaned from the height of God,
AND I DESTROYED YOU,
OH COVERING CHERUB,
FROM AMONG THE STONES OF FIRE...
18 By the host of your iniquities,
by the iniquity of your trade,
you have profaned your holy places;
thus I brought a fire from your midst;
When Satan and his angels rebelled, God destroyed their literal dwelling places. According to scripture this destruction was swift and decisive. God calls "Rahab" (boaster, pride?), obliterated. Job 26:11-13:
The pillars of heaven are stunned at His rebuke.
He quiets The sea with his power,
- and by his understanding
He shatters (maw-khats, dashes asunder), Rahab,
-by His spirit the heavens were beautiful;
His hand forbids the fugitive snake
1 Chronicles 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
1 Chronicles 21:1-3 (in Context) 1 Chronicles 21 (Whole Chapter)
Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:5-7 (in Context) Job 1 (Whole Chapter)
Job 1:7
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 1:6-8 (in Context) Job 1 (Whole Chapter)
Job 1:8
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Job 1:7-9 (in Context) Job 1 (Whole Chapter)
Job 1:9
Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:8-10 (in Context) Job 1 (Whole Chapter)
Job 1:12
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
Job 1:11-13 (in Context) Job 1 (Whole Chapter)
Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:1-3 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
Job 2:2
And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Job 2:1-3 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
Job 2:3
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
Job 2:2-4 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
Job 2:4
And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
Job 2:3-5 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
Job 2:6
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Job 2:5-7 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
Job 2:7
So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Job 2:6-8 (in Context) Job 2 (Whole Chapter)
Psalm 109:6
Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psalm 109:5-7 (in Context) Psalm 109 (Whole Chapter)
Zechariah 3:1
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zechariah 3:1-3 (in Context) Zechariah 3 (Whole Chapter)
Zechariah 3:2
And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Zechariah 3:1-3 (in Context) Zechariah 3 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Matthew 4:9-11 (in Context) Matthew 4 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 12:26
And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
Matthew 12:25-27 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matthew 16:22-24 (in Context) Matthew 16 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 1:13
And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
Mark 1:12-14 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 3:23
And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
Mark 3:22-24 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 3:26
And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
Mark 3:25-27 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
Mark 4:14-16 (in Context) Mark 4 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 8:33
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
Mark 8:32-34 (in Context) Mark 8 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 4:8
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Luke 4:7-9 (in Context) Luke 4 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke 10:17-19 (in Context) Luke 10 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 11:18
If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Luke 11:17-19 (in Context) Luke 11 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 13:16
And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
Luke 13:15-17 (in Context) Luke 13 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Luke 22:2-4 (in Context) Luke 22 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 22:31
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luke 22:30-32 (in Context) Luke 22 (Whole Chapter)
John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
John 13:26-28 (in Context) John 13 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts 5:2-4 (in Context) Acts 5 (Whole Chapter)
Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Acts 26:17-19 (in Context) Acts 26 (Whole Chapter)
Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
Romans 16:19-21 (in Context) Romans 16 (Whole Chapter)
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 5:4-6 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 5 (Whole Chapter)
1 Corinthians 7:5
Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
1 Corinthians 7:4-6 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 7 (Whole Chapter)
2 Corinthians 2:11
Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
2 Corinthians 2:10-12 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 11 (Whole Chapter)
2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2 Corinthians 12:6-8 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 12 (Whole Chapter)
1 Thessalonians 2:18
Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
1 Thessalonians 2:17-19 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 2 (Whole Chapter)
2 Thessalonians 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2 Thessalonians 2:8-10 (in Context) 2 Thessalonians 2 (Whole Chapter)
1 Timothy 1:20
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
1 Timothy 1:19-20 (in Context) 1 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter)
1 Timothy 5:15
For some are already turned aside after Satan.
1 Timothy 5:14-16 (in Context) 1 Timothy 5 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 2:9
I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 2:8-10 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 2:13
I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Revelation 2:12-14 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 2:24
But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
Revelation 2:23-25 (in Context) Revelation 2 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Revelation 3:8-10 (in Context) Revelation 3 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 12:8-10 (in Context) Revelation 12 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Revelation 20:1-3 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 20:7
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Revelation 20:6-8 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter)
Thats all the info i have on Our enemy
hope it helps
Buzzardhut
August 3rd, 2007, 03:04 PM
Ok -
So now let me dig a little deeper. Throwing out all ASSUMPTIONS of who Satan is: In other words. .where in Scripture does it say that Satan ever really was an Angel of Light.
Secondly, where in Scripture does it name Satan as Lucifer (Which it does not).
Thirdly, how can Satan be created "Evil from the beginning" or a "murderer from the beginning" and be an Angel?
Fourthly, while I do not deny that angels fell - does that mean that Satan was one of them?
I have been having a large issue with believing that Satan is being spoken of in the old testament as an angel. Jesus never refers to him as such, and Scripture in direct relation to him only refers to him as a Serpent. So ignoring assumptions (which do things we shall not mention), can we then say that Satan was created evil from his inception?
-Daniel
Daniel,
You should be satisfied with all these wonderful answers correct?
You are looking for an answer right?
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