The Passion of The Christ & Stations of the Cross

[HouTex]

I have had numerous emails and inquiries about the best-selling Don Piper book, "90 Minutes in Heaven." Are such experiences legitimate? When one dies, is there a scripture verse that says some will visit Heaven (or hell) and return to tell the world about it? Not really. What, then, can we make of the many people who claim to have made these journeys?


The problem with books of this nature is that they undermine the authority of Scripture. The Bible teaches that God "has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world" (Hebrews 1:2). The tense of "has spoken" indicates a full and final revelation. Everything we will know about Heaven and hell during this life and in this age is contained in the Bible.

http://www.omegaletter.com/articles/articles.asp?ArticleID=6104

[BlessedinHim]

I have read a book or 2 on this subject several years ago. What I found was that their "experiences" were not in line with the word. For example, one of the books said that the people or angels they saw were wearing BROWN robes. Ummmm, that is definitely not scriptural. The bible says we will have white robes. So, unless all they say lines up with scripture, then I discount it to some weird dream or they had a satanic visitation.

I dont believe one would get to go to hell and visit there just to come back and tell us about it either, He has told us what we need to know in His word.

[Jennie]

This interests me because I almost bought the book by Bill Wiese "23 Minutes in Hell". He quotes a lot of scripture, things he saw were related to in the Bible. I asked my pastor about it and he said it sounded far fetched. I've left it alone thinking what we are to know is in the Bible. I wonder if they really just had dreams.

[BlessedinHim]

http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/biblical-teaching/DeWaay/07-5-heaven.htm

This site tells you what you need to know about this idea of these "dreams"

[Caneman]

Is it unbiblical to relate to Jesus personally, intimately, or experientially?

Blessings,

Caneman

[Lexie]

If it has connections to the type of contemplative Rieki masters of Ken Wilber which is Zen Buddhism, partner Father Thomas Keating, Father Richard Rohr, then there is a problem. I wonder where the seperation of Church and state is in the education system?


Returning to full time teaching after more than a decade in Yale University central administration, including seven years as Associate provost, she has spent the last several years in curriculum development which includes alternative and complementary therapies as part of the Spirituality and Health Curriculum. Believing that it is important to examine the spiritual roots of many alternative and complementary therapies, she has taught courses and done professional presentations and workshops on prayer, meditation and Reiki, among other topics. She is trained as a Reiki Master practitioner. She has studied Centering Prayer under the direction of Father Thomas Keating, a Trappist monk at St. Benedict's abbey in Snowmass, Colorado. She is an Oblate of a Roman Catholic cloistered order of monks and affiliated with The New Camoldese Hermitage in Big Sur, California. She has also trained with Rev. Lauren Artress and, in doing so, has become a certified Labyrinth facilitator as part of Veriditas at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco. She has participated in a special international spirituality program at Chartres Cathedral in France in May 1999. She has recently published several articles on Prayer and Reiki.
http://nursing.yale.edu/Faculty/ameling.html


Ricahrd Rohr Jesus is a radical politcal inclusive activist

Noted theologians and authors
discuss the radical, dynamic and
passionate message of Jesus. Unlike
other videos about the life of Jesus,
Portrait of a Radical uses powerful
images and music to move the
viewer into the dynamic nature of
Jesus told in a language that can be
heard by a person of any faith
attempting to reclaim Jesus'
message from the institution that
has obscured His radical,
compassionate and inclusive
teachings. Portrait of a Radical
draws the viewer into a space where
Jesus can be experienced from a
different perspective

"Creativity and Filmaking” David
Lynch; "Science and
Consciousness" -- John Hagelin;
"Transcendental Meditation and the Brain" Fred Travis; "World
Peace" John Hagelin;
"Consciousness-Based Education" -
-David Lynch
http://www.queenswoodcentre.com/newsletters/newsletter_6.pdf

[Caneman]

I see a problem with a buddhist like Wilbur, but what do you know about Thomas Keating?

Caneman

[Lexie]

I see a problem with a buddhist like Wilbur, but what do you know about Thomas Keating?

Caneman


Hi Caneman,

Thomas Keating is a Catholic Monk, he along with Thomas Merton, also few others, have brought the Hindu Buddhist contemplative practices into the Church. Here is an interview with Keating and Wilber, Keating a favorite teacher on Wilber site.

http://www.integrativespirituality.org/postnuke/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=286&page=1

Father Keating along with M. Basil Pennington, is co-founder of the Centering Prayer movement and of Contemplative Outreach, a worldwide nonprofit organization dedicated to encouraging the practice of this Christian form of meditation. Over the years, he has spoken to monks, clergy, and laypeople all over the world about devotional practices. He also frequently participates in dialogues with contemplatives of other religions.

Centering Prayer is a method of prayer, which prepares us to receive the gift of God's presence, traditionally called contemplative prayer. It consists of responding to the Spirit of Christ by consenting to God’s presence and action within. It furthers the development of contemplative prayer by quieting our faculties to cooperate with the gift of God’s presence. Centering Prayer is drawn from ancient prayer practices of the Christian contemplative heritage, notably the Fathers and Mothers of the Desert, Lectio Divina, (praying the scriptures), The Cloud of Unknowing, St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila.

It helps that Keating also has an unusually open-minded attitude towards the meditative practices of other traditions and has studied with spiritual teachers from a variety of Hindu and Buddhist lineages, for this lead to the creation of the Snowmass Interreligious Conference in 1982, where teachers from diverse paths meet regularly to compare notes and evaluate the successes and failures of their respective practices. Other organizations graced by the presence of Keating include the Monastic Interreligious Dialogue (which sponsors exchanges between the monks and nuns of every religion), and the International Committee for Peace Council.

http://www.peacecouncil.org/peacecouncilors.html


Open source spirituality for an Awakening (R)evolution integrative spirituality
http://www.integrativespirituality.org/postnuke/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=286&page=1

Open source spirituality Global Brain, Thomas Berry, Gaia, Matthew Fox Cosmic Christ ect
http://www.communitywiki.org/odd/EvolutionaryNexus/LinksBin


http://in.integralinstitute.org/Podcast/2006/04/father-thomas-keating-and-ken-wilber_11.html

Keating and others in the movement
http://www.spiritualityandpractice.com/teachers/index.php?pg=5

Saint Benedict
http://www.urbandharma.org/bdharma2/index.html

[Caneman]

To you, why is Thomas Keating so dangerous?

Caneman

[funmudder]

This interests me because I almost bought the book by Bill Wiese "23 Minutes in Hell". He quotes a lot of scripture,

Satan knows scripture backwards and forwards ;)

There is also the parable of Abrahams bosom(Luke 16: 19-31) where a very important piece of information is given to us:

Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.

There is a place called Sheol in Hebrew (mentioned in Psalms) and Hades in Greek. It's the abode of the dead. It's where the souls of people who died went and still go.

Jesus describes two people who died and both went to Hades (Luke 16). The rich man who didn't trust in God went to the side of Hades that was hot and nasty. The poor man who did trust in God went to the part called Abraham's Bosom, a place of comfort. Between these two parts is a chasm that can't be crossed. Once you die you go where you go and can't change sides. So, before Christ died/rose those who trusted in God (like Adam, Moses, David, and this poor dude) went to the pleasant side of Hades. Those who did not trust in God went to the unpleasant side. Think of Hades like a waiting room.

When Christ died/rose the pleasant side was emptied. All of those souls were now in the presence of the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8). Since that time, all those who put their trust in God, when they die, go directly to the presence of the Lord, no need to go wait in Hades for a while. Some people refer to this as Heaven, but it isn't the Heaven with streets of gold and pearly gates. More on that later. What is this presence of the Lord, this Heaven like? No idea. It's gotta be pretty cool though, right?

At some point in the future, those who have died and had their faith in Christ will be resurrected (1 Corinthians 15:50+). These bodies will never get sick or old or die. At some point after this, God is going to nuke the universe and start over. he is going to reshape/recreate out universe. This is found in Revelation 21. That is when we will be in the New Heaven with the streets of gold and pearly gates.

So, if a Christian dies today, they go to Heaven, which is in the presence of the Lord. At some point they will get a new physical body which will, at some point, live in the New Heaven.

What about those souls in Hades? What is Hell? If someone who does not put their trust in God, someone who is not a Christian dies, they go to that nasty side of Hades which has been filling up this whole time. It's a hot unpleasant place, but it isn't Hell.

At some point, these souls too will be given a new resurrection body just like the Christians get. In Revelation 20 it talks about how they will be judged by their works. This judgement isn't like "You go to Hell, you go to Heaven" judgement. It's a reward judgement, like the Olympics. It says in Rev. 20 that those whose names are not written in the Lambs book of life will not enter the New Heaven.

All of these people will be cast into the Lake of Fire with Satan and his demons. Satan is not in charge in Hell. He won't be walking around with his demons like a prison warden and guards. He is right in there with the rest of them.

So, to sum up. What most people think of as Heaven and Hell won't happen until the very end of things. Between now and then souls are sent to a holding place where they are conscious and aware of who, what, where, when, why, and how. Those who are in Christ are in the presence of the Lord awaiting the New Heaven and New Earth. Those who are not in Christ are awaiting their sentencing hearing before being sent to prison.

Make sense? At least that's how I read it.