Who does 2 Thes. 2:11-12 apply to?

[Jubilee77]

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 (New International Version)

11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

And in the memorandum on RR (http://raptureready.com/rr-memo.html) it says, "At the same time, God will allow strong delusion to come over all who heard the Gospel before the Rapture, but, fully understanding the offer of salvation, refused to accept Christ. These will believe Antichrist’s and Satan’s, lies. (2 Thes. 2: 11-12)."

So does that mean that a person who grew up in the church but has now backslidden have no chance of salvation after the rapture? Would they fall under the strong delusion? Does it depend on how much you understand about salvation before the rapture? Who can get saved after the rapture?

[Hootmon]

So does that mean that a person who grew up in the church but has now backslidden have no chance of salvation after the rapture? Would they fall under the strong delusion?The force of those verses you posted is upon those referred to by 'For this reason'.

Ask yourself, 'What is the reason'? Its in the previous verse...

for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

We arent talking about ignorance here. Its willfull rejection of the truth in preference to the lie. God in effect 'frees' them to believe the lie they already want to believe...


Does it depend on how much you understand about salvation before the rapture? It depends on how you reacted to the salvation message. Being 'undecided' is not the same as 'willfully rejecting'.


Who can get saved after the rapture? People will be saved after the Rapture (during the Trib).

When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
(Rev 6:9-11)

[dramama]

:thumb

[Biblenuggetlady]

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/no-second-chance

No Second Chance?
Ask a Bible Teacher

Q. A pastor I heard recently preached that after the rapture, those who had been given an opportunity to accept Jesus and had rejected Him and were thus left behind would not have an opportunity to accept Jesus post-rapture. He cited a verse in II Thes. where it talks of a great delusion being sent and the people believing a lie.



It would appear from The Revelation that those killed in the great tribulation come from every nation, tribe and tongue are before the throne (saints) and there are 144,000 jews who are sealed with God's seal, all of whom had to have accepted Jesus as Savior after the rapture. I would think most if not all had heard about Jesus before the rapture (particularly I am thinking of the Jews and those tribulation saints from the USA as I can hardly believe that someone from the USA has never ever heard about Jesus). Therefore I question the accuracy of his belief. Can you shed any light? Thank you.



A. Some interpret 2 Thes. 2:9-11 to mean that all those who've heard and rejected the gospel before the rapture will not be given another chance afterward, and a literal reading of the passage seems to support that view.



The issue as always is a matter of the heart. Has a formerly non-committal person missed his or her last chance to be saved at all when the rapture comes, or just to be saved into the Church? I've always taken the position that a great number of these "fence-sitters" will finally be persuaded by the disappearance of millions of believers to make a belated decision for the Lord.



So I guess I interpret the passage narrowly, to include only those who've so hardened their hearts against the Lord that no amount of evidence would suffice to persuade them, not even the unexplained disappearance of many around them.



That said, the benefits of making your eternity secure now, before the Rapture, so far outweigh any advantage you might gain by waiting, especially when we don't know how much time is left, that it's extremely risky to put it off.



If you're asking this question on your own behalf, I strongly urge you to do it now!

also:

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/the-end-times-according-to-paul-part-3-2-thessalonians

The End Times According To Paul ... Part 3, 2nd Thessalonians

[blitzkreig]

So does that mean that a person who grew up in the church but has now backslidden have no chance of salvation after the rapture? Would they fall under the strong delusion? Does it depend on how much you understand about salvation before the rapture? Who can get saved after the rapture?

The Holy Spirit and the Church will have left the earth ... God has turned to Israel once again and is dealing directly and providentially with them.

Go back into the Old Testament and count the number of Gentiles menitoned as being "saved" from Genesis to Malachi. How did they do it ...? Ally with Israel.

The "church" age is done at that time. The hope is not to be the "Body of Christ" ... it will be the "Goat Sheep" judgment as detailed in Matthew 25. How one treats Israel.

The time of salvation is NOW ...

2Co 6:2 For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. If one plans on waiting ... perhaps a course on the Hebrew language would be warranted ...


:shocked

PS there ain't no such thing as "backsliding" completely out of salvation if the party in question was truly saved ... I believe God would kill you before he would let that happen ...

:hehee

[Hootmon]

PS there ain't no such thing as "backsliding" completely out of salvation if the party in question was truly saved ... I believe God would kill you before he would let that happen ...Agreed.

[AnotherOldGuy]

So does that mean that a person who grew up in the church but has now backslidden have no chance of salvation after the rapture? Would they fall under the strong delusion?
Well, to whom does "them" refer? If only there was a way to know! Hmmm - I wonder...

(2 Th 2:9,10) The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Nothing there about "backsliding". One can grow up in the church and never receive the love of the truth.



Does it depend on how much you understand about salvation before the rapture?
It's not about how much you understand. There's a lot I don't understand - but I do know that Christ IS my Lord. He is the living Son of God who has been given ALL authority. That includes authority over me. Salvation is given to those who accept His authority.


Who can get saved after the rapture?
Someone who is not saved. But there will be extreme obstacles. But, if that person takes the mark (thereby showing allegiance to the beast) - he has no chance at salvation.



The Holy Spirit and the Church will have left the earth ... God has turned to Israel once again and is dealing directly and providentially with them.
I don't believe that the Holy Spirit will have left the earth. He just doesn't dwell in people.



Go back into the Old Testament and count the number of Gentiles menitoned as being "saved" from Genesis to Malachi. How did they do it ...? Ally with Israel.
Ummm - no. Abraham did it by faith. Rahab did it by faith. Ruth did it by faith.

Israel does not save. The Lord saves.

[Eternally]

I don't think the Holy Spirit will have left either. Just not there working thru the saved saints.

[Hootmon]

I don't believe that the Holy Spirit will have left the earth. He just doesn't dwell in people. I agree. The Holy Spirit will revert to His pre-Resurrection mode of operation.


Abraham did it by faith. Rahab did it by faith. Ruth did it by faith.

Israel does not save. The Lord saves.Exactly.

[blitzkreig]

I agree. The Holy Spirit will revert to His pre-Resurrection mode of operation.

God is omnipresent He will not "leave entirely" ... So yes I agree as you say that it will be as it was before "He came" ...

As we recall He couldn't actually "come" until the Lord Jesus left.

Joh 16:7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

So the opposite of "came" ... at that time He will have ... "went".

So that leaves the question of the ability of someone to come to "Salvation" without the Holy Spirit. Oh ... and the definition of Salvation I suppose as well.

Many Many Many will be "saved" ... as was the oft use of the term in the OT which means that they will be delivered into the Kingdom ... the Messianic Kingdom. Of course ... that doesn't mean at all that they will be members of the Body of Christ.

.