Oneness Pentecostalism

[kenod]

Oneness theology is not limited to the UPC church, but is found frequently among non-denominational groups. It is based on the supreme deity of Jesus Christ, which is the teaching that He is the complete fullness of God in a human form, not just the second person of a trinity. When the Bible says that God "gave" or "sent" His Son, it is referring to the human form, the Son of man.

[BlessedinHim]

ok, maybe we might be getting somewhere here, there are 3 forms of God, but one God. Each form has a specific task. more like water can be ice, it can be fluid and it can be gas??? But it is still water.

[Emily Ruth]

It seems that many false teachings land on erroneous teachings of the trinity. It was brought up in another thread but would have derailed the thread to discuss it there, plus it is too important of a topic to not bring out into its own thread.

So I thought I would start one here to help those who may not be fully convinced in their own minds that God is three persons wholy separate and wholy one. Whether or not we are able to understand that is not the issue - what is the issue is that we love the truth as it is spelled out in the scriptures.

I have found that any time I hear a teaching that is contrary to the Bible about the trinity - that thre is also a false teaching about the gospel.

Here is some proof text, while there are many, for the trinity, here are a few

John 15:26
"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

John 16:7
But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

[prisonersetfree]

may i ask one question?

Who was Jesus Father?

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

if the Father, Son, and Spirit are not one but seperate...then Jesus had 2 fathers. right?

so, who is Jesus father. the Father, or the Holy Spirit?

[GlorifyHim]

The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
I think it clear that this scripture is stating that the overshadowing of the Highest ( The Father ) is being accomplished through the Holy Ghost coming upon Mary. The Fathers Will is being carried out through the Holy Ghost. Surely, if the Holy Spirit should come upon a person for a reason such as this, they would be overwhelmed by the Power of the One who sent the Holy Spirit to begin with. Remember, the Holy Spirit does nothing of His own will, but only the will of the Father, which raises the obvious question: then why did Jesus say that HE would sent the Holy Spirit ( Counselor )? I think that tells us something of who Jesus is. [John 15:26
"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.]
I hope this is helpful.........In the grip of His grace !

[Emily Ruth]

may i ask one question?

Who was Jesus Father?

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

if the Father, Son, and Spirit are not one but seperate...then Jesus had 2 fathers. right?

so, who is Jesus father. the Father, or the Holy Spirit?

God is in three persons - but we are not going to be able to understand it in our human condition. We live in four dimensions - the 4th being time.
Without realizing it we think about things in a linear way which also means we put measured weight to everything we look at. We simply cannot put linear and dimensional measure on God.

It is clear that the Father is God but to try to put numbers on it as to if that makes the Holy Spirit His Father too - I don't know how to answer but I know that the Holy Spirit also serves the Father.

They are all equal too. Jesus and the Holy Spirit serve the Father. But we are told they are equal.

John 5:18
For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

If I had to say it as best as we can understand it in human terms - The Son and the Holy Spirit serve the Father in the affairs of men.

The Son does the work of the Father, the Holy Spirit gives the testamony of the Son to those the Father directs Him to deliver the message to. But they are still equals.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all[b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

[prisonersetfree]

you know what ive come to realize my friends?

we could go back and forth with verses showing the oneness of God and verses showing the trinity. our Lord is to awesome to comprehend. i go to a oneness pentecostal church. theyve made a great case with the oneness of God ( Jesus being the Father Son Spirit).

but i also cant ignore the verses that show the plurality of God and the distinct persons of the Godhead. no one has it all right. the Lord is too complex. lets debate and discuss, but not divide over the issue. :hug :thumb

oh by the way, i know of the accusations of oneness pentecostals. that they are a "cult". i dont have the time or energy to type how God brought me to this church, but i know for a fact He did. i never woulda went to a church like this on my own. i grew up baptist until 2 months ago when i started going to this church. these people love the Lord and really care about me and my walk. i feel the Spirit in EVERY service, whereas the baptist churches i went to it was few and far between, it was more of a social club per say. the Lord speaks to me every single time. i just got back from church and the Spirit really moved tonight.it was awesome.

here is my analysis: wether you believe in the trinity or oneness doctrine, if youve given yourself to Jesus, obey Him, and walk in the Spirit, you are His. i love you my friends, goodnight.

[Mentat]

God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Oneness doctrine is outside of historical orthodoxy. It was rejected by early church fathers and Sabellius was excommunicated and declared a heretic.

http://www.gospeloutreach.net/opgospel.html

I am not accusing you based on one issue, or your church, and I trust that you are striving to understand the issue and be careful. I think we all "get it wrong" in many ways. I just take it more serious when you are talking about the nature and character of God, which I see as a primary issue and one to divide over.

Peace.

[LisaJo]

No one can comprehend with our finite mind, the infinite awesome qualities of the Trinity. Yes they are all one. . .but:

In Christ's life, we saw a separation of sorts. When he was in the Garden praying, who was He praying to?

When He hung on the cross and said,"My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me?" Was he talking to himself?

No. I personally believe that this was the point in which The Father had to turn away as the sin lay on His Son, and for a brief moment in time, they were truely separated.

Take 3 matches and strike them. They all flame. Put them together and they make one flame. Separate them, and they make 3. Three in One, One in Three.

We don't have to understand it, but if we keep focused on Him and Live through His Word, we just KNOW.
Revelations speaks of a time when the 7 thunders will speak. At that time, the Mystery of God will be revealed. Until then, I'm not going to sweat the small stuff.

[Emily Ruth]

No one can comprehend with our finite mind, the infinite awesome qualities of the Trinity. Yes they are all one. . .but:

In Christ's life, we saw a separation of sorts. When he was in the Garden praying, who was He praying to?

When He hung on the cross and said,"My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me?" Was he talking to himself?

No. I personally believe that this was the point in which The Father had to turn away as the sin lay on His Son, and for a brief moment in time, they were truely separated.

Take 3 matches and strike them. They all flame. Put them together and they make one flame. Separate them, and they make 3. Three in One, One in Three.

We don't have to understand it, but if we keep focused on Him and Live through His Word, we just KNOW.
Revelations speaks of a time when the 7 thunders will speak. At that time, the Mystery of God will be revealed. Until then, I'm not going to sweat the small stuff.
First, I love the example of the three matches. The is one of the best examples that I have seen in a long time.

However, I am going to address the issue of Jesus on the cross.
Psalm 22 shows that they were NEVER separated. Jesus simply FELT the separation as we do when we sin. We are promised that even when we sin He will never leave or forsake us and He didn't leave or forsake His son on the cross. Jesus said those words because that is exactly how we feel when we sin. It isn't until we ask to be forgiven and get back on the narrow path that we feel that burden of 'feeling' separated lifted.

We have heard:
God is perfect and cannot look upon sin.
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Actually, that statement cannot be correct. I know it is taken from the scripture in Habakkuk but many don't read the whole verse and it has become an incorrect statement in Christianity.

How could God judge what He does not look upon?

The statement in Habakkuk is that God cannot look upon sin and approve it. In other words, He won't wink and look the other way. He must judge it and that was the reason Jesus had to come to pay our penalty.

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Habakkuk 1
13Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he? ________________________________________

I know that it also is the explanation for why Jesus said on the cross "Why have you foresaken me?" and it is touted that it is because God had to look away because of the sin. Again, that is not the case. How could He have judged the sins and received the payment if He didn't look at it? If you read Psalm 22:24 which is the Psalm of the suffering Messiah.

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Psalm 22:24
24For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
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I just wanted to clarify that statement that I hear so often and it simply cannot be accurate.