Oneness Pentecostalism

[LordsKid]

I've recently been trying to talk with a person that goes to a United Pentecostal church. She doesn't believe in the trinity and I have shown her numerous scriptures which back up the trinity. She says that when she reads them, it backs up her belief in oneness, which seems to be a belief in Jesus only, not the Father or Holy Spirit. She knows her Bible, and I can tell she thinks she has a superior knowledge, from private revelations she says are given to her.

I was just wondering if anyone here has had any experience dealing with someone who believes in oneness? It is a new concept to me. I did read that some other Pentecostal churches call United Pentecostal a cult. Never having been a Pentecostal, I don't understand too much about the denomination. Thanks for any help.

[Galoutofdixie]

Here's a good link from Carm. Christian apologetics and research ministry. This link should take you directly to the page discussing "Oneness Pentecostlalism":

http://www.carm.org/oneness.htm

They deny the Trinity, require baptism for salvation, are legalistic, and do not preach the true gospel.

ARTICLESIntroduction
What is Oneness Pentecostal theology?
What does Oneness Pentecostal theology teach?

Issues and Answers
Oneness and the word "person"
Another look at Jesus, the Father, and two wills
Is baptism necessary for salvation?
- Baptism and Mark 16:16
- Baptism and John 3:1-5
- Baptism and Acts 2:38
- Baptism and 1 Peter 3:21
Must Baptism be "in Jesus' name"?
Is speaking in tongues a necessary sign of salvation?
Who did Jesus pray to?
Jesus' resurrection and ascension
God was seen in the Old Testament? Who was it?
Isaiah 9:6, Is Jesus the Everlasting Father?
What is the real gospel message?

Witnessing to Oneness People
Witnessing to those who are in oneness churches
Questions to ask Oneness Pentecostal believers.
- Answers and responses to Questions to ask Oneness Believers.

[LordsKid]

Thanks for the link! I'm going to go check it out. I hope they can give me ideas on how to help this girl see the Trinity in scripture. It seems no matter what I show her, even Let Us make man in Our image, doesn't help. She says she still just sees oneness. But she grew up in the UPC denomination, so I know it must be hard for her to see beyond what she has been taught. Thanks again.

[BlessedinHim]

I have attended UPC before for a period of time when I was younger.

It is very difficult to get them to see that God is one and three. They use the same scriptures we would use to prove that they are three, but one at the same time. They do believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, but they believe that the name is only Jesus. I think this is just a misunderstanding of the trinity, or the tri-une godhead which is backed by the exact scriptures they use. I see this argument as an instrument of the devil to split and cause division and it has done a very "good" job of it.

As for the other stuff they do......
Speaking in tongues, they will do their best to shake it into you, so much so, that you might sound like you are speaking in tongues just from the shaking you are getting. This is no joke.

They tend to see a demon under every rock and behind everything bad.

They tend to be a little legalistic.

they do not practice tongues decently and in order as described in the Corinthians.

they can be a bit judgemental, but they just want you to live the best you can and speak in tongues, if you cant speak in tongues, then they tend to think you have a demon or some stronghold keeping you from it.

After saying all that, I want you to know this, I am very greatful for the experience I had while attending. I learned things there you certainly wont learn in other denominations that are just as biblical as baptizing.

While they tend to be KJV only people, and a demon under every rock, etc etc, in other words a little extreme in some of their beliefs, there are some things to be gleaned from their beliefs. You just got to really set down and examine what they teach and see for yourself what is true and what is not true. I no longer attend a UPC church because they do go so extreme and they do not understand that not all people are not gifted exactly the same. That there is not a demon under every rock. That you dont have to wear skirts to your ankles and sleeves to your wrists if you are a woman in order to be holy and reverent toward God.

Here are the verses they use to prove ONENESS in this diagram:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u238/lucysmp/onegod2.jpg

Hope that helps. You will need to pray for them to get through, and probably only the Holy Spirit will ever be able to do that. Not to discourage you, but you gotta be realistic.

In reality, they are right, there is one God, just the scriptures support a tri-une godhead that they refuse to interpret that way. When you dig deeper you will find more errors in their beliefs as you nit pick. But, that is true in most denominations, there is some point we are all in error on. We just gotta make sure of the salvation and who Jesus is part.

You might go to church with her once and see for yourself, just be prepared for the activity that happens there. At least in my experience, they get a little loud and they get up out of the pews and run the aisles and dance, and if they think you need the Holy Spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues, they might try to shake him into you. They do preach some really good sermons, these are the hell and brimstone preachers. At least 25 years ago they were.

[Peace777]

Hi LordsKid, Prisonersetfree sent me the following link to three AWESOME intellectuel debates against the oneness stuff. It really helped me out when I encountered this idea for the first time. They are long, but VERY HELPFUL and make some really really good scriptural points that you might be able to use. I found the third tape to be the most helpful for my particular situation. I hope you have time to view them. Here's the link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-751027547059973965

[Gods disciple]

I don't see how anyone can call themselves true Christians and not believe in the trinity. The u.p.c.s believe you must be baptized in Jesus' name and speak in tongues as evidence of your salvation. I'm sure most believe that baptism saves you when actually it doesn't. Jesus says'' blessed is he who believes and is baptized, but he who does not believe will be damned''. The main idea there is belief in Jesus Christ. If they don't believe in the trinity, then how can Jesus be his own father? How can he turn himself into a dove and land on his own shoulder? How come he says let it be your will when talking to God? Who did Jesus pray to? Just because you haven't been baptized doesn't mean you're not saved. It's belief in Jesus Christ that saves and not baptism. Paul said" Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the Gospel''. Baptism is just a public profession of ones faith. Jesus didn't need to be baptized. He just did that because baptism was (might still be) an ancient Jewish tradition. Jesus is God so why did he need baptism? He was simply following his Jewish tradition. Once you are saved I think you should be baptized but baptism doesn't save you. Read Matthew 28:19. That is what Christ meant by baptism. John 3:16, 2 peter 3:9, Romans 10:9-11. It's all about what Jesus did on the cross and faith in him.

[Gods disciple]

2 peter 3:9

[BlessedinHim]

yeah, the first chapter in the book of John should be a huge clue to the upc. I think they stay to one God because the OT says Hear O' Israel, the Lord your God is ONE. They tend to go a bit on the extremes on some points in scripture. We can see it both ways, the God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. Both statements are true. We have a hard time grasping this as we do to, just they decided to stick their heads in the sand to this.

They count the trinity as if we say there are three gods, but we know that the Lord our God is one. But there are three that bear record. Jesus said the Father bears record of Him(at least I think He did and was almost stoned for it except He hid himself)

The other extreme to this would be a belief in 3 gods. but we know there is only 1.

just as calvin and armenius disagreed, they both took the side of extremes in their point of view which made them only half right, but because they were only half right, it made them wrong. So, the UPC is wrong as well in taking up the extreme view of who God is.

It is kinda like having a picture that is made of 3 colors. They focus on one color and say that the picture is of one color, but there are 2 other colors in the picture and until you stand back and see the whole picture, you might not see the other 2 colors. Another has their focus on another corner and they say, nah, the picture is this color... and then they argue because they argue over a narrow point of view when all along the picture is 3 colors, but it is still the same picture. 3 colors of one picture.

[Sing4Him]

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0082a.html

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0083a.html



http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=658


http://web.archive.org/web/20060320170158/http://www.nccg.org/FAQ051-UPC.html :thumb

[Sing4Him]

This list of articles is on the Oneness Pentecostal and Apostolic faith teachings.

Introduction to the Oneness Movement- Please read this short intro before going to the articles.

ALL HERE:
http://www.letusreason.org/Onendir.htm

The logos- speech or a Person?

The Word “WITH” in John 17- What glory is Jesus speaking about?

Who was manifested in the flesh?- Oneness teaches God is one person only, who was manifested in the flesh. How does Oneness explain many manifestations simultaneously?

God Does not change- Can God become the Son or the Spirit and then change back to the Father, is he only one person at a time?

Oneness Theology- Explaining the differences between their beliefs and ours.

History of Heresies- History always repeats itself when no one is paying attention. an outline of some early heresies in the Church.

Preexistence of the Son- Is the Son pre-existing like the Father or did the Father become the Son.

The Son being Sent- Where did the Son come from ? Earth , heaven, is it only a title of the Spirit?

The Right Hand of God-What does this phrase actually mean and teach.

Proofs of the Trinity-Is there a trinity or are they only titles/roles of one person?

The Word One- Examining how this is used and applied in Scripture.

The Word Persons- What do Trinitarians mean by 3 persons as the One God?

Jn.1:1- Comparing their definition with the scriptures.

Mt.28 Baptism- Is this an authentic text or does it mean in Jesus name?

The Grace of God-Are we misinterpreting this?

Who died on the Cross ? Was it the Father or the Son, or both.

The Trinity in the Resurrection- Who was involved in raising Jesus from the dead?

Today I have Begotten Thee -Did the Son come into existence at a certain time like other humans?

Are Tongues and Baptism Necessary ? What are the essentials for salvation?

From the mouth of Two or three Witnesses- What did Jesus mean about witnesses?

Oneness Pentecostals and Trinitarians Unite- TBN promotes a new openness

Modern beginnings of Oneness Pentecostals- When did the Sabellian revival begin?

The Early Church on Oneness -Quotes from those involved in the controversy.

answering the main Oneness arguments against the Trinity

For a personal testimony:
http://www-personal.si.umich.edu/~rlm/upctest.html