Israel?

[Saved by Grace_06]

For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. - Romans 9:6-8

What is your understanding of Romans 9:6-8? How does Paul comfort himself with the fact that God did no forget his promise (v6 and v7)?

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” - Romans 11:25-27

What is your understanding of Romans 11:25-27? Does "all of Israel" mean every Jewish person or does it mean "the promised seed, aka, spiritual Israel?"

[kenod]

For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. - Romans 9:6-8

What is your understanding of Romans 9:6-8? How does Paul comfort himself with the fact that God did no forget his promise (v6 and v7)?

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” - Romans 11:25-27

What is your understanding of Romans 11:25-27? Does "all of Israel" mean every Jewish person or does it mean "the promised seed, aka, spiritual Israel?"

A third option, which is the one I lean towards, is that "all Israel" (Rom 11:26) refers to national Israel, but only those who are genuine servants of God.
I think it is difficult to interpret "Israel" in verse 26 as the Church, when verse 28 says: "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes."

[Saved by Grace_06]

A third option, which is the one I lean towards, is that "all Israel" (Rom 11:26) refers to national Israel, but only those who are genuine servants of God.
I think it is difficult to interpret "Israel" in verse 26 as the Church, when verse 28 says: "As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes."

Good stuff. Do me a favor though. Read the noted scriptures again and try to see the distictions between "national Israel" and "Spiritual Israel" and when which of the two becomes "All of Israel?" In other words, who is the "all of Israel" that will be saved when "the fullness of the gentiles come in?" And, what does the certain number of Gentiles who have yet to be grafted in have to do with "all of Israel?"

Does my question make sense?

[kenod]

Good stuff. Do me a favor though. Read the noted scriptures again and try to see the distictions between "national Israel" and "Spiritual Israel" and when which of the two becomes "All of Israel?" In other words, who is the "all of Israel" that will be saved when "the fullness of the gentiles come in?" And, what does the certain number of Gentiles who have yet to be grafted in have to do with "all of Israel?"

Does my question make sense?

Not too sure I got your question, but it does seem that verse 25 is speaking of national Israel: blindness in part is happened to Israel

When the Gentile age is finished (at the Rapture, I believe) then the Gospel will be ministered to national Israel. I think this is linked to the ministry of the "two witnesses" and the "144,000", spoken of in Revelation.

[HeIsEnough]

Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”; “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” - Romans 11:25-27

What is your understanding of Romans 11:25-27? Does "all of Israel" mean every Jewish person or does it mean "the promised seed, aka, spiritual Israel?" [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

It means I am not to glory over the condition of Israel and think I am more special because they were hardened for my sake. How one treats this in their heart is no idle matter. Be careful where you let your heart tread.

[HeIsEnough]

Of course no thread about national Israel should be without this one.....


Romans 11

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

To stay in His kindness.......sorta makes one wonder why someone would glory over their fall, even though it was all for your sake.

Also explains a little why we 'look to when Israel sneezes', as you accused me and others here of doing.

[BlessedinHim]

God is not done with Israel. He will be done with the period of Grace at the Rapture and we will be with the Lord, those that accepted Him in faith. Israel will go through the Great Tribulation and then on into the millenium, and their Messiah, will indeed reign with them for a thousand years, and then they will finally be judged. They still have another thousand plus years in the hands of the Lord.

[RefinedbyFire]

I really like when you use that font style, and red & blue letters...

Good question. I wonder that, too! I'm just glad I am spiritually part of Isreal. And, like "HeisEnough" mentioned, the Scriptures say to "fear" in being a grafted-in branch, because God didn't spare some of the natural branches. I'm also happy that since I'm truly in Christ, I'm a grafted-in branch, and spiritually a Jew. It is so wonderful to know! Yet, I fear...

[HeIsEnough]

Yet, I fear...

Peace.

I have viewed it like this for several decades friend. The Lord called Israel to be His people. Set them apart to do His will. When He came, He made it clear that your birthright is not what makes one acceptable to Him. ("Don't think you can call upon Abraham") He set the record straight....it was all about Him.

Every type and shadow pointed to a fulfillment of Messiah. Whether the law, the feasts and festivals or prophecy, it was all pointing to Jesus.

He also, through Jonah and many other examples, made it clear that He loves all His creation, and calling people 'unclean dogs' was not His purpose.

When we as gentiles turn on the Jews in heart or action, we condemn ourselves. His kindness is expressed by what He did and further clarified to us; "Love your enemy" Did not God love His enemies? (Us)

So we see because of unbelief in Christ, and that alone, the hardening happened to Israel. For 1900 years, too many gentiles have been hating the Jews (Calvin, Luther...yes, the so called greats of the reformation) One doesn't need to look far for the evidence within their own lives. Too many take liberties in their own heart in speaking out towards the Jews, when only God alone has that right. We have no right to speak against them. I myself have been accused of not properly accepting Israel, which I knew was untrue. Yet when I perceive people speaking against them in favor of themselves, I will speak up for them. God is not a respecter of persons, so the message is love, not rejection because we are somehow "all that" (yes even including being 'elect', 'chosen' whatever term one wants to use)

To stay in His kindness then, is to love as He is love and does love. To do less with any group, including Jews who may not believe in their Messiah, is to fall short of His kindness, and sets ourselves up to be meted out the same justice they received. Any way, I'm off my soapbox now. :lol2

[BlessedinHim]

I am saddened that the world treats the family of my Lord so shamefully. They dont even occupy half the land they should, and the world is trying to talk and cajole them out of that. The whole world is blind as far as Im concerned concerning Israel. How they take History that is secular even to make it all a joke and some zion lie. things like, the holocaust didnt really happen, please, how can they even conceive it was made up, who would make up such a horror? the novel horror stories dont even stack up against the horror of the holocaust. It was the most inhuman, insane, devil contrived things to happen to God's people. But, we know it was just a devils attempt to making Gods word of no circumstance, his lame attempt to prove God wrong, and it failed miserably. It is already written, God wins, devil loses. That is what this life is about right now, if you really want to think about it. We must choose sides. It boils down to whose side you gonna be on? That is the division Christ brought. That is why a splinter of land in the middle east causes the world so much pain. But we are not of this world, we are in this world, but not of it, thank God for that.