The Pentecostal Movement

[CountryBumpkin]

firstlove, in another thread you spoke about being slain in the spirit and I want to repeat what I said:

I disagree. The times that it happened in scripture could have been when they were overcome by awe and fear or by the power of God. Please note that there were no people that caused this falling, there was no laying on of hands so to say that it is the same is stretching it. What you see happening today is not the same and one should run from these types of manifestations.

When Jesus laid hands on people they did not fall. When Jesus breathed on His diciples and said "Recieve the Holy Spirit" they did not fall. Just because these signs are occurring today does not mean that God is behind them. We need to be very discerning nowadays because:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

[firstlove]

Yes, you are right-deception is rampant-and I would not make a doctrine out of being slain in the Spirit-but it happened in scripture-and happens today. I have had this happen to me only a few times-and it wasn't anyone but God-and my reaction to that power. The power of God is an awesome power.

You said, "The times that it happened in scripture could have been when they were overcome by awe and fear or by the power of God."--The same thing can happen today.

[kenod]

Yes, you are right-deception is rampant-and I would not make a doctrine out of being slain in the Spirit-but it happened in scripture-and happens today. I have had this happen to me only a few times-and it wasn't anyone but God-and my reaction to that power. The power of God is an awesome power.

You said, "The times that it happened in scripture could have been when they were overcome by awe and fear or by the power of God."--The same thing can happen today.

I think your attitude towards the 'slain in the Spirit' experience is well balanced - it only ever happened to me once, and in a different setting than is ususal. This may be another example from Scripture, but like you, I do not make a doctrine about it: And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, "Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. Rev 1:17 When everyone falls over in every meeting I think there may be a bit of 'mass hysteria' going on.

Although Pentecostal-charismatic meetings are easy to criticise because of 'enthusiastic excesses', I think it is a mistake to disregard what is happening in the universal Church as a move of God. For anyone to imply that is the "doctrine of demons" fails to see how committed to Jesus Christ the people are

The Rapture is a doctrine that was not always held so widely as it is today, so we need to be open to God revealing Himself to the Church in a progressive manner, since the time of the Reformation.

[CountryBumpkin]

Yes, you are right-deception is rampant-and I would not make a doctrine out of being slain in the Spirit-but it happened in scripture-and happens today. I have had this happen to me only a few times-and it wasn't anyone but God-and my reaction to that power. The power of God is an awesome power.

You said, "The times that it happened in scripture could have been when they were overcome by awe and fear or by the power of God."--The same thing can happen today.

So then would you agree that the slain in the spirit that happens at Benny Hinn meetings are such - the power of God - the same that you have experienced? If not - why?

[BlessedinHim]

Trying to be in the Spirit was brought up by another poster first, and like I said, I am not sure about trying to be in the spirit. How can you try to be in the spirit? Either you are or you are not.

I didnt mention A of G in my post.

I think I said in just an earlier post that I dont think any church group has it 100%.

And I am sure there are churches in every denominational claim that could be considered on the fringe, meaning they go out of their way to do things to the utmost extreme or they dont really understand what the bible meant by it. Taking scripture sorely out of context and applying it to what they want.

we do have the phelps these days who have a baptist name, and it makes me ill. I think that the baptist name should be ripped off their door. I am sure there is some church out there that has made you feel the same way that may have shared some part of the name of your church.

I dont think God would put men down in the floor to act like some kind of rabid animal, squirming and carrying on so. That is not biblical to let all things be decently and in order.

I had forgot about Saul, but he is the only one I can think of that was brought down, but it was necessary to get his attention. He had his heart in the right place, just not toward the right people, and God did that to get his attention to get him straightened out.

All the others falling down, were not God reaching out to them. Where in the OT did the priests fall down in the Spirit?

Whether or not they actually taught that there is a demon under every rock, that is the impression that they quite emphatically left me with. I know there isnt a demon behind every thing that goes wrong, many times it is merely the consequences for our bad choices.

the main point of my post was that no denomination has it 100% correct. They wind up with their point of focus only being on one or two issues in the doctrine that God has set out for us. This is generalizing a bit, but please bear with me here and just the point is to be made of what I am saying....
Pentecostal is more about speaking in tongues laying on of hands and spiritual highs, dont do this, dont do that. Are you demon possesssed?

Nazarene is more about just Holiness living. They dont have a clue about demon posession.

Baptist is more about getting people in the door and getting them to accept Christ and getting them baptized.

Methodist tend to be more liturgical and more into ritual.

That is my point. We need all of this in our life to get a balanced view of what the bible says.

Without the pentecostal part of my up bringing, I would not have known how to handle demonic oppression personally or demon possession in another. I have witnessed both in person.

The Nazarene helped me in the way I should go to live out a life that can be pleasing to God.

Baptist show me it is important to love my neighbor as myself.

Methodist shows me respect and beauty in the sacraments and what they mean.

This is just my personal experience, and I am thankful again for it.

[kenod]

Trying to be in the Spirit was brought up by another poster first, and like I said, I am not sure about trying to be in the spirit. How can you try to be in the spirit? Either you are or you are not.

From the time we are born again we are “in the Spirit”.

Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,
if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Pentecostal-charismatic Christians use this expression also for being in close communion with the Spirit of God during times of worship:

Rev 1:10
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,
and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

1Cor 14:15
I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

[BlessedinHim]

In a previous post by someone else, they said something about trying to be in the Spirit.

I think the question is how can you TRY to be in the spirit, and that was my point on that. key word: try

I said I dont get that, either we are in the spirit or we are not, how can you TRY to be in the spirit?

Once you are His, I understand we are sealed with the spirit.
And I realize we can lose fellowship when we get off track making it feel like we are not sealed anymore, but we cannot become unsealed. He will never leave or forsake us. Because of our own sins, we feel llike God is far away until we ask forgiveness and get back in fellowship. Our guilt, just like Adam and Eve, makes us go and attempt to hide because we are afraid.

But, Perfect love casts out fear, praise God for that, and the HS speaks to us and corrects us and we ask forgiveness and quit hiding.

We humans are some piece of work. (Not meaning I think we are good) Only God in us is good.

[RefinedbyFire]

This is a good question. I've actually researched the background of the Pentecostal movement a bit, and I found that it didn't really start until 1901, and the Charismatic movement more started blooming in the 1960's.

These are the different beliefs I've come across:

A) The amazing miracles in Acts, which authenticated the start of the Church Age, faded away with the completion of canon of Scripture. Miracles were poured at different times in Biblical history. In the last days, they are being poured out again, and will continue to the end.

B) The amazing miracles in Acts, which authenticated the start of the Church Age, faded away with the completion of canon of Scripture. They are over for good. There should not be anymore miracles present.

C) The amazing miracles in Acts, which authenticated the start of the Church Age, have never faded away, but have continued (mostly undocumented, and under-used) through the last 2,000 years. They will continue until the end.
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The reason I started researching it, is because last year, I was involved with four churches with several people. One was a Christian megachurch, one was a "light charismatic" church, one was a "OT Isreal mindset" church, and one was a pentecostal group that a girl invited me to (prior to that, I had never been exposed to that before). These are my personal feelings:

Compared to the others, the Pentecostal group seemed to rely much more on emotions/feelings/experiences than the Word of God. I felt there were genuine Christians there, but the Bible mainly sat under chairs. People seemed focused on heavenly riches and gold, and signs and wonders. There were many people who claimed they were prophets, and apostles. Looking at Scripture closely, I could see error occuring. Holiness didn't seem to be talked about, and sin & repentance didn't seem to be as big an issue in discussion. Thus, I feared people -- possibly unholy people -- were practicing the gifts wrong, and possibly were giving false "words" from the Lord, from their own minds and own imaginations (see Ezekiel). I left the group quickly. (I want to make clear that I don't assume all pentecostal groups are that way. That was just my experience with one group).

My conclusion is that the gifts maybe died down in periods of history, but I feel they are undeniable, and must be just as relevant today, as back then. They need to be kept in-check with strict Scriptural guidelines, though, and practiced by holy/righteous people. I know of some very godly people that occasionally pray/speak in tongues, and I've heard amazing things (like healings). Therefore, I'm most comfortable at a "light charismatic" church, where there is total order, and self-control, and the Spirit isn't quenched (yet the gifts aren't that visible, either). Some people get nervous with the gifts, and thus, don't practice them (like the "OT Isreal mindset" church I went to). However, but that is between them and the Lord. I think holiness/righteousness (void of legalism and self-righteousness) comes first & foremost, out of love & fear of the Lord.

[firstlove]

So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.
2 Cronicles 5:14

I am Pentecostal-not WOF like Benny Hinn, I do not watch his program and do not agree doctrinely with what he teaches-so I am not a good one to ask if I can defend what happens on his program. Many people lump Pentecostal, WOF, and Charismatic in the same basket-but they aren't the same.

[BlessedinHim]

This is a good question. I've actually researched the background of the Pentecostal movement a bit, and I found that it didn't really start until 1901, and the Charismatic movement more started blooming in the 1960's.

These are the different beliefs I've come across:

A) The amazing miracles in Acts, which authenticated the start of the Church Age, faded away with the completion of canon of Scripture. Miracles were poured at different times in Biblical history. In the last days, they are being poured out again, and will continue to the end.

B) The amazing miracles in Acts, which authenticated the start of the Church Age, faded away with the completion of canon of Scripture. They are over for good. There should not be anymore miracles present.

C) The amazing miracles in Acts, which authenticated the start of the Church Age, have never faded away, but have continued (mostly undocumented, and under-used) through the last 2,000 years. They will continue until the end.
------------------------------------------------------------

The reason I started researching it, is because last year, I was involved with four churches with several people. One was a Christian megachurch, one was a "light charismatic" church, one was a "OT Isreal mindset" church, and one was a pentecostal group that a girl invited me to (prior to that, I had never been exposed to that before). These are my personal feelings:

Compared to the others, the Pentecostal group seemed to rely much more on emotions/feelings/experiences than the Word of God. I felt there were genuine Christians there, but the Bible mainly sat under chairs. People seemed focused on heavenly riches and gold, and signs and wonders. There were many people who claimed they were prophets, and apostles. Looking at Scripture closely, I could see error occuring. Holiness didn't seem to be talked about, and sin & repentance didn't seem to be as big an issue in discussion. Thus, I feared people -- possibly unholy people -- were practicing the gifts wrong, and possibly were giving false "words" from the Lord, from their own minds and own imaginations (see Ezekiel). I left the group quickly. (I want to make clear that I don't assume all pentecostal groups are that way. That was just my experience with one group).

My conclusion is that the gifts maybe died down in periods of history, but I feel they are undeniable, and must be just as relevant today, as back then. They need to be kept in-check with strict Scriptural guidelines, though, and practiced by holy/righteous people. I know of some very godly people that occasionally pray/speak in tongues, and I've heard amazing things (like healings). Therefore, I'm most comfortable at a "light charismatic" church, where there is total order, and self-control, and the Spirit isn't quenched (yet the gifts aren't that visible, either). Some people get nervous with the gifts, and thus, don't practice them (like the "OT Isreal mindset" church I went to). However, but that is between them and the Lord. I think holiness/righteousness (void of legalism and self-righteousness) comes first & foremost, out of love & fear of the Lord.

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