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kenod
June 3rd, 2007, 11:14 PM
According to some websites, there are over 400 million Pentecostal-charismatic Christians in the world today, and this is one of the most rapidly growing sections of the Church, especially in third world countries. Some P-C groups are probably guilty of excessive behaviour (just like the Corinthians in the Bible) but generally speaking these people are very committed to following Jesus Christ. Should evangelical churches regard this large and expanding group as a move of God in the last days, or the devil going about as a "roaring lion"?

Betty
June 4th, 2007, 01:15 AM
It depends. There are some Churches that are growing and they preach the truth of the Gospel and there are others that are growing that have become seeker friendly.
betty

kenod
June 4th, 2007, 01:27 AM
It depends. There are some Churches that are growing and they preach the truth of the Gospel and there are others that are growing that have become seeker friendly.
betty

"seeker friendly" ... I'm not sure what that means.

Betty
June 4th, 2007, 01:49 AM
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/Seeker%20friendly.htm
this is one site that talks about them

kenod
June 4th, 2007, 03:00 AM
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/Seeker%20friendly.htm
this is one site that talks about them

Thanks ... interesting article. I can agree with some of what it says but it seems to be a grab bag of numerous ideas, which collectively do not identify P/c churches as being distinct from others, in my experience.

I did a Google search on "Baptist charismatic" and came up with 834,000 hits! Some are saying the Pentecostal-charismatic movement is of the devil. The first site quoted this verse: For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (Jude 1:3 and 4)

I don't agree with everything that happens in P/c churches but I do not believe that they are "ungodly men" as this article claimed.

I think we need to look at this movement without trying to protect our entrenched doctrinal and denominational positions, and consider what may be Scriptural and what may be the excesses of enthusiasm. (I would prefer to try too hard to be "in the Spirit" than not try hard enough :)

This is a very interesting finding:

LifeWay Research Studies the Use of Private Prayer Language
NASHVILLE, Tenn.—A recent study from LifeWay Research on the use of private prayer language indicates that half of Southern Baptist pastors believe the Holy Spirit gives some people a special language to pray to God.
The study also indicates the majority of Protestant senior pastors (63 percent) and laity (51 percent) believe in the gift of a private prayer language.
Lifeway Research (http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0%2C1703%2CA%25253D165593%252526M%25253D200906%2C0 0.html?)

BlessedinHim
June 4th, 2007, 08:33 AM
If a person is obeying God, do they really need to TRY to be in the Spirit? I think if we are in Gods will, we dont have to TRY, the HS can and will move on its own without our help to make it move.

The devil has a counterfeit for everything God's. and he uses it pretty good to wreak havoc in our lives.

there are many pentecostal churches out there that are on the fringes.

This slain in the spirit thing??? where in the bible, did anyone that God reached out to just fall down on the ground? Jesus always picked them up because they were already down.

The only times people fell back were in judgement or fear of judgement or plain fear. When the soldiers came for Jesus in the garden, what happened to them, they fell back. those who came by Him and were demonically possessed and oppressed, they fell down.

In the corinthians it is quite clear on how the practice of tongues should be done, and yet, many many pc churches do not practice tongues biblically.

Everyone does not have to speak in tongues, and it is not the only sign of being filled with the spirit.

Everyone who is not saved does not have a demon.

I attended UPC, COG, holiness pc, non-denominational pc, for most of my growing up years. That is to say, I have been there.

I will say, I am grateful for what I gleaned out of these churches while I was there. It has helped me in ways I never knew I would even need. Many denominations dont even believe in demons at all, what a hey day the devil has there. but in the same note, there is not a demon under every rock. That is the problem here, denominations go to extremes to separte from the other denominations, and miss out on a lot of good.

denomintions, is a devils hey day, cuz that means he has a bickering and fighting and separated. Then we are weak. We all need to get back to the basics and divide the word rightly and get things in the proper persepctive and ask God to help us get there.

kenod
June 4th, 2007, 08:58 AM
BlessedinHim,,

I think you make some good points. In my opinion, not everything that happens in every P/c church is correct ... then not everything that happens in your church or my church is probably 100% correct all the time either.

I don't think we can dismiss a church as being "not of God" just because we would do some things differently - and yet that is what happens a lot of the time with those who do not agree with P/c churches (I'm not saying that's your position).

I think it is very difficult to look at what is happening around the world in the universal Church and not see the P/c movement is a move of God. When I was a young man figures like those in the LifeWay study were unheard of, and yet over the years, many genuine God-fearing, Bible-studying people have been led to see things differently. I think we need to be careful that our preferred interpretation of the Bible doesn't cause us to just write off the experience of 400+ million Christians in the Church today.

With regard to "trying" to be "in the Spirit" - yes, I do believe that we need to make an effort to be open to the moving of God's Spirit ... it is possible to quench the Spirit by our attitude. Some may be more enthusiastic than we feel is appropriate, but I think that is better than being lukewarm in our worship.

BlessedinHim
June 4th, 2007, 10:25 AM
I dont think any denomination or branch or non-denomination has it ALL right. I think it is sad that we have these divisions, I dont think that is what God had planned. I study the bible and let the HS lead me in that study, and I find some uncomfortable things in there sometimes, but that is when it is time for me to change, allow God to make that change in me to conform more to His word. All the different denominations has something important to offer, but due to the fact that they emphasize one important aspect of the biblical truth over another distorts the truth somewhat, some more than others. I am glad I have a multi-denominational back ground. But above all, glad that I have the standard to go by above what any man might say. and the HS to guide me through it.

larry_boy_44
June 4th, 2007, 10:39 AM
You should define "Pentecostal" and "Charismatic" before you attack all who fall under those headers... I think you'd be surprised who all actually falls under them...

firstlove
June 4th, 2007, 11:44 AM
If a person is obeying God, do they really need to TRY to be in the Spirit? I think if we are in Gods will, we dont have to TRY, the HS can and will move on its own without our help to make it move.


I am Pentecostal-AoG-and I would like to discuss this with you. I'm not sure what you mean by "trying to be in the Sjpirit" can you explain that?

The devil has a counterfeit for everything God's. and he uses it pretty good to wreak havoc in our lives.

there are many pentecostal churches out there that are on the fringes.

No, there are a few-just like there are a few Baptist churches or Presbyterian churches ect...and again, it depends on what you mean "on the fringes" we are to be a peculiar people, according to scripture.

This slain in the spirit thing??? where in the bible, did anyone that God reached out to just fall down on the ground? Jesus always picked them up because they were already down.

Being "slain in the spirit"-that's a human term-but yes, it is scriptural-ie Paul on the Damascus road, the priests in the OT, and the soldiers who came to arrest Jesus. It is merely some peoples reaction to the power of God-it is neither good nor bad-just a fact

The only times people fell back were in judgement or fear of judgement or plain fear. When the soldiers came for Jesus in the garden, what happened to them, they fell back. those who came by Him and were demonically possessed and oppressed, they fell down.

Still, merely our fleshes reaction to His power-I attend a Pentecostal church where this happens only rarely-but it is from God-our mere mortal bodies have a hard time sometimes, with the power from the Creator of the Universe.

In the corinthians it is quite clear on how the practice of tongues should be done, and yet, many many pc churches do not practice tongues biblically.

Ours does-each in turn and let one interpret-but again, it isn't Biblical to never have it either-that is even more unbiblical than-tongues used at the wrong time or for the wrong reason.

Everyone does not have to speak in tongues, and it is not the only sign of being filled with the spirit.

No, but it IS the first physical sign of the Baptism in the Spirit. Acts 2:4, Acts 19:6, Acts 10:46

Everyone who is not saved does not have a demon.

Never heard that teaching

I attended UPC, COG, holiness pc, non-denominational pc, for most of my growing up years. That is to say, I have been there.

I will say, I am grateful for what I gleaned out of these churches while I was there. It has helped me in ways I never knew I would even need. Many denominations dont even believe in demons at all, what a hey day the devil has there. but in the same note, there is not a demon under every rock. That is the problem here, denominations go to extremes to separte from the other denominations, and miss out on a lot of good.

denomintions, is a devils hey day, cuz that means he has a bickering and fighting and separated. Then we are weak. We all need to get back to the basics and divide the word rightly and get things in the proper persepctive and ask God to help us get there.

I'm sorry that you got some teaching that "there is a demon under every rock" but I've been in the AoG-the largest Pentecostal church for quite a few years-and I've never heard that even once.