Help!!

[Saved by Grace_06]

Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you." At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. -- Mat 11:21-27

Questions:

1. Why didn't the Lord give the mentioned cities a sign so that they could repent and therefore be saved?

2. Why did God hide the gospel from some?

3. Jesus said that he alone must reveal the Father for a man to believe in him and therefore believe in truth. Where's man's freewill to believe truth there?

[Robbinson]

Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you." At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. -- Mat 11:21-27

Questions:

1. Why didn't the Lord give the mentioned cities a sign so that they could repent and therefore be saved?

2. Why did God hide the gospel from some?

3. Jesus said that he alone must reveal the Father for a man to believe in him and therefore believe in truth. Where's man's freewill to believe truth there?



I'm glad you post these questions - because each time you do, it forces me to focus more intently on lines of scripture I've read through before without taking the time to parce each word.

Great questions - I don't have great answers. As you know, I've struggled over this "free will" v. God's Soverignty debate - I learn more each day as I continue to study God's word. I've become a believer in God's Soverignty, I believe that it is a lynch pin around which we can begin to understand and appeciate many of the messages in the scriptures. However, I continue to hope and pray that God's plan includes "free will" (and perhaps it does, should that be His will and His plan). So, I try to lead my life as though all of mankind is given a choice - I try to do my best to spread the gospel and prepare the soil so the Holy Spirit can do its work. If God has planned to enable folks to make a "free will" choice, then I will hopefully be a small help in conditioning them to do so - if not, then perhaps I can be part of the means by which God brings the gospel to His elect.


Regards

[Saved by Grace_06]

I'm glad you post these questions - because each time you do, it forces me to focus more intently on lines of scripture I've read through before without taking the time to parce each word.

Great questions - I don't have great answers. As you know, I've struggled over this "free will" v. God's Soverignty debate - I learn more each day as I continue to study God's word. I've become a believer in God's Soverignty, I believe that it is a lynch pin around which we can begin to understand and appeciate many of the messages in the scriptures. However, I continue to hope and pray that God's plan includes "free will" (and perhaps it does, should that be His will and His plan). So, I try to lead my life as though all of mankind is given a choice - I try to do my best to spread the gospel and prepare the soil so the Holy Spirit can do its work. If God has planned to enable folks to make a "free will" choice, then I will hopefully be a small help in conditioning them to do so - if not, then perhaps I can be part of the means by which God brings the gospel to His elect.


Regards

Thanks for what you wrote, bro! Notice the highlighted part? I believe that is true for this one reason: God alone will get "ALL" the glory in salvation, because you would have done nothing, but be a means to an end and not an end in and of yourself. If you did something to get someone saved, how ever small it may be, you would have cause for boasting.

[Big Daddy]

Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I tell you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you." At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. -- Mat 11:21-27

Questions:

1. Why didn't the Lord give the mentioned cities a sign so that they could repent and therefore be saved?

2. Why did God hide the gospel from some?

3. Jesus said that he alone must reveal the Father for a man to believe in him and therefore believe in truth. Where's man's freewill to believe truth there?

He did give them signs, Mat 11:5. These are the signs given.
A Jew would know what these signs were. A gentile wouldn't.
These specific signs mentioned here were signs of the Messiah, that only a Jewish person would recognize.

The gospel that Jesus preached was the Gospel of the Kingdom, and it was hidden so that gentiles could be grafted in to the vine.

The Kingdom presentation is rejected in Mat 12, and in Mat 13 the focus shifts to gentiles.


Some things had to be hidden from Jews so all could be saved.
Not all Jews were in the dark, though. Just those that the Father had given Him were brought into the Body.

It is a different dispensation now. When the fullness of the gentiles has come, we will see God's Plan move forward.

[Rondaben]

I'll take a stab at these questions.

Questions:

1. Why didn't the Lord give the mentioned cities a sign so that they could repent and therefore be saved?

2. Why did God hide the gospel from some?

3. Jesus said that he alone must reveal the Father for a man to believe in him and therefore believe in truth. Where's man's freewill to believe truth there?

1. There are several groups of cities here. The first is Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capaernuum. The second is is Tyre and Sidon. The final is Sodom. Christ was physically present in the first group--performing miracles and teaching the inhabitants. This was not so in the second and third group. Christ's point in this part of the passage was that those cities where he was physically present as the living Messiah, healing and teaching, would exalt themselves for having been blessed by Jesus's presence. Christ chastizes this--saying that if what he had done in those cities (with mediocre response) had been performed in the Tyre and Sidon, they would have been overwhelmingly repentant and the entire cities would have been saved--even the depravity of Sodom would have come to the truth had they witnessed the teachings of Christ in the flesh. The part about sackcloth and ashes is very similar to the massive repentance of Nineveh under Jonah in Jonah chapter 3.

2. I think that when Jesus said "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will." he was referring to the Jew and the Gentile. The Jew had knowledge of God--they had understanding of God and his laws. The fact that Jesus was the Messiah was missed on these of "wisdom and understanding" yet the gentiles readily accepted him as Lord. The gentiles understanding was young and immature---they were believing of Christ without the preconditions of a political/militaristic messiah to liberate. They accepted Christ on face value, as a child accepts as truth that which a parent tells them.

3. The issue of free will often times trips up many in verses like "All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." I think that if you go by the plain, literal text of the verse you can come close to understanding what Jesus was saying. No person can understand that Jesus is God incarnate without first knowing who God is. This is a common problem today as people create a god in the image that they would have--a god that is only love, never judging or full of wrath. By this standard you have no need of Christ--God will forgive you of your sin because he his patient, loving, long suffering, etc. (See Jonah Chapter 4--this is what Jonah had done "when he was in his own country") Likewise, we know that without the understanding of God sacrificing his only Son to pay the price for our transgressions we cannot be saved--"No one comes to the father but through the Son". The final part, "and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." is the free will hurdle. The prime example in my mind of this was Saul. He had heard the Gospel and had outright rejected it (during the trial of Stephen) and continued to persecute the church in even greater ways. Jesus CHOSE Saul--despite his free will choice to reject Christ. (see Acts 9:15 and 16 "But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.") Saul still had the choice to be obedient and do as Jesus told him or to go on his own way--but Jesus "Chose" to make a special effort that would emerge in the person of Paul.

Hope this helps--just my thoughts on it!

[Rondaben]

lol..beat me to the punch! thats what I get for writing a long post :doh

[Saved by Grace_06]

He did give them signs, Mat 11:5. These are the signs given.
A Jew would know what these signs were. A gentile wouldn't.
These specific signs mentioned here were signs of the Messiah, that only a Jewish person would recognize.

The gospel that Jesus preached was the Gospel of the Kingdom, and it was hidden so that gentiles could be grafted in to the vine.

The Kingdom presentation is rejected in Mat 12, and in Mat 13 the focus shifts to gentiles.


Some things had to be hidden from Jews so all could be saved.
Not all Jews were in the dark, though. Just those that the Father had given Him were brought into the Body.

It is a different dispensation now. When the fullness of the gentiles has come, we will see God's Plan move forward.

Please read what I wrote again. EVERYTHING you said had NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. For example, Jesus said that "if a sign was given to the mentioned cities, e.g, Sodom, etc., they would have repented." My question was why didn't they get a sign? All answer the rest of the questions.

[Saved by Grace_06]

I'll take a stab at these questions.



1. There are several groups of cities here. The first is Chorazin, Bethsaida and Capaernuum. The second is is Tyre and Sidon. The final is Sodom. Christ was physically present in the first group--performing miracles and teaching the inhabitants. This was not so in the second and third group. Christ's point in this part of the passage was that those cities where he was physically present as the living Messiah, healing and teaching, would exalt themselves for having been blessed by Jesus's presence. Christ chastizes this--saying that if what he had done in those cities (with mediocre response) had been performed in the Tyre and Sidon, they would have been overwhelmingly repentant and the entire cities would have been saved--even the depravity of Sodom would have come to the truth had they witnessed the teachings of Christ in the flesh. The part about sackcloth and ashes is very similar to the massive repentance of Nineveh under Jonah in Jonah chapter 3.

2. I think that when Jesus said "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will." he was referring to the Jew and the Gentile. The Jew had knowledge of God--they had understanding of God and his laws. The fact that Jesus was the Messiah was missed on these of "wisdom and understanding" yet the gentiles readily accepted him as Lord. The gentiles understanding was young and immature---they were believing of Christ without the preconditions of a political/militaristic messiah to liberate. They accepted Christ on face value, as a child accepts as truth that which a parent tells them.

3. The issue of free will often times trips up many in verses like "All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." I think that if you go by the plain, literal text of the verse you can come close to understanding what Jesus was saying. No person can understand that Jesus is God incarnate without first knowing who God is. This is a common problem today as people create a god in the image that they would have--a god that is only love, never judging or full of wrath. By this standard you have no need of Christ--God will forgive you of your sin because he his patient, loving, long suffering, etc. (See Jonah Chapter 4--this is what Jonah had done "when he was in his own country") Likewise, we know that without the understanding of God sacrificing his only Son to pay the price for our transgressions we cannot be saved--"No one comes to the father but through the Son". The final part, "and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." is the free will hurdle. The prime example in my mind of this was Saul. He had heard the Gospel and had outright rejected it (during the trial of Stephen) and continued to persecute the church in even greater ways. Jesus CHOSE Saul--despite his free will choice to reject Christ. (see Acts 9:15 and 16 "But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.") Saul still had the choice to be obedient and do as Jesus told him or to go on his own way--but Jesus "Chose" to make a special effort that would emerge in the person of Paul.

Hope this helps--just my thoughts on it!


Do you feel that you've addressed the questions asked? I don't see how your responce has anything to do with why God did not give such cites as "Tyre, Sidon, Sodom, etc., a sign so that they could repent and therefore be saved. Jesus said that "no sign was given to them" and that "if a sign was given" they would have repented. My question is why werent signs given to them. The second question is an expansion of the first one and goes into "why God hides the truth from some people?" The third question, also an expansion of the first two gets the crux, namely "free will" vs "Sovereign grace." Which is it? If people's wills are free to choose God, why does Jesus say that ONLY those whom he reveals the truth to can choose?

[Rondaben]

Do you feel that you've addressed the questions asked? I don't see how your responce has anything to do with why God did not give such cites as "Tyre, Sidon, Sodom, etc., a sign so that they could repent and therefore be saved. Jesus said that "no sign was given to them" and that "if a sign was given" they would have repented. My question is why werent signs given to them. The second question is an expansion of the first one and goes into "why God hides the truth from some people?" The third question, also an expansion of the first two gets the crux, namely "free will" vs "Sovereign grace." Which is it? If people's wills are free to choose God, why does Jesus say that ONLY those whom he reveals the truth to can choose?

I would respectfully say that God DID give signs to Tyre, Sidon. Notice in Acts that Paul himself went to both Tyre and Sidon so that they would receive the Gospel and be Saved. The focus of the passage is the DEGREE of signs that were given. Paul, perhaps the greatest evangelist of all time was indeed a mighty sign for Tyre and Sidon, but he was no Jesus. Capernum, Chorazin and Bethsaida were all Jewish towns where Jesus himself had taught and perfomed miracles. The point is that these cities were still to a degree non-repentant and that if Jesus had done the same acts in Tyre and Sidon they would have repented to a much greater degree. Sodom is even referred to in that it was the epitomy of corruption and degredation--and that even it would have born more fruit than these cities he is admonishing.

The verse says nothing about "no sign was given to them" (even so, at that time Paul hadn't yet been sent, but a sign was coming!). This leads to the point that God does not hide this truth forever--it is revealed in his time and is manner. Jews--to this day--do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. That will change as well--as found in scripture.

Your final question can be attributed to your reading of the text. Read it carefully.

All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Jesus says that no one knows the Son except the Father and no one Knows the Father except the son------AND-------those whom the son chooses to reveal. In my explanation above I covered this. You can know the Father by knowing the Son. You can know the Son if you Know the Father. AND in Jesus's choice he can make a special revelation--ala Saul--to reveal the Father.

[Rondaben]

lol...oh...and "Free will!"---i forgot to make my choice :)