(Was...A Mormon U.S. President - Could This Fit Into Prophecy?) Now is LDS a Cult?

[lisa]

Celticmist, it is definately a cult. Everything everyone has said about Mormons is true. My step-mother and my dad converted to Mormonism many years ago. One other thing I didn't see mentioned is that they believe they can pray someone, who has already died, into Heaven. You couldn't pay me any amount of money to go near a Mormon Church, much less go in one.

They will get "baptized" for folks that are dead as well. They will look up their geneology and find family members who weren't members of the Mormon church and get baptized for them, in hopes that their relative will "accept" the baptism and be saved after they are already dead. My best friend throughout my school age years would go at least one a year to the temple to do this.

[ATYCLB]

And they are, just like Mormons are false teachers...Well, which is it? You believe they are false teachers or you believe they
believe in the Jesus of Scripture and that He visited Smith in a vision?

Earlier on your reasoning was that they believed in Jesus with your supporting
"proof" being a picture of Him and the 12 hanging on their wall.


I feel you are knit picking here and assuming you know what was said. It was two different threads... and I guess you missed when I said I don't believe in the LDS never have never will.No, I'm very clear on what you've been saying. Just because it was two
different threads doesn't change the fact that you're quick to label Paula,
Warren and their ilk as false teachers but somehow think "ONLY the Father
knows!!!!" when it comes to Mormon theology.

No, It's very clear that you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that
Mormonism is a cult with a false Jesus.


Assuming here: You don't think any in that organization can truly accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, correct ?I never said that.


If so, then all those that have come to know Jesus under all these false teachers are not saved souls, would that be politically correct for you?I'm really not concerned about being PC.

What I am saying is that one who believes in the Mormon Jesus has placed
his salvation in the wrong hands because that Jesus isn't THE Jesus.

[Ancient Julez]

celtic,
I get the impression you want to hope that some can be saved regardless if they've fallen under the spell of mormon teachings, because your sister is among them...thats totally natural to want to hold out hope for a loved one...But I think you'd do her a better service trying to show her the falseness of these teachings and how to get back on track, then just hoping that maybe she is only misguided right now..while it may be harder for you to see your sister as having never trully been saved, it might be the better approach to helping her....
telling yourself its between her and God and who are you to judge, is only going to help you sleep at night....it won't help her find the REAL Christ....
your sister will be in my prayers

[JohnnyHye]

I'll try to make this as simple as possible...

Mormons are not and cannot be Christians, because...

To be a Mormon, one must believe:
1. Heavenly Father is the highest god for us
2. Jesus Christ is a brother to all men and to Lucifer, but he is a god who is not as high as Heavenly Father, and he is a separate god entirely, but "one in purpose" with Heavenly Father
3. Salvation is through Jesus but ONLY "after all we can do", meaning we must first work as hard as we can, and then Christ can save us
4. Christ's redemptive work was his suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane, and a little bit on the cross also
5. As god is, man may one day become
6. As man is, god once was,
7. Before god were many other gods, and there will be many other gods to follow, and they will be the best mormons who did the best mormon rituals
8. Hell is only for demons, everyone else goes to one of 3 heavens - terrestrial, telestial, or celestial. How good a mormon you gets you into the Celestial or telestial; all others go to terrestrial heaven

In order to be a Christian, one must believe:
1. God is the highest because He's the ONLY True God
2. Jesus Christ is both the Son of God and God, He is a person of the Trinity and is not a separate god - there is only ONE True God
3. Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus; works have no bearing on salvation but are rather a result of a True Faith in Christ
4. Christ's redemptive work was his death on the Cross
5. No man can ever become a god or like God
6. God was always God, He was never man
7. God (and therefore Christ) is the Alpha and Omega, beginning and end, He is eternal - there was none before Him and will be none after Him
8. Hell is for those who die in their sins; there is one heaven where those saved through faith in Christ will spend eternity


Look at those two lists, and you'll see that these basic beliefs of Mormonism and Christianity are opposed. Also, you'll be hard pressed to find any Christian of any denomination who would deny any of the tenets on the second list, whether Catholic or Baptist or Presbyterian or Orthodox.

It is impossible for someone to be a Mormon and a Christian - by definition, a Mormon believes in things that contradict those things a Christian needs to believe in order to be a Christian.

[vsi4Jesus]

I'll try to make this as simple as possible...

Mormons are not and cannot be Christians, because...

To be a Mormon, one must believe:
1. Heavenly Father is the highest god for us
2. Jesus Christ is a brother to all men and to Lucifer, but he is a god who is not as high as Heavenly Father, and he is a separate god entirely, but "one in purpose" with Heavenly Father
3. Salvation is through Jesus but ONLY "after all we can do", meaning we must first work as hard as we can, and then Christ can save us
4. Christ's redemptive work was his suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane, and a little bit on the cross also
5. As god is, man may one day become
6. As man is, god once was,
7. Before god were many other gods, and there will be many other gods to follow, and they will be the best mormons who did the best mormon rituals
8. Hell is only for demons, everyone else goes to one of 3 heavens - terrestrial, telestial, or celestial. How good a mormon you gets you into the Celestial or telestial; all others go to terrestrial heaven

In order to be a Christian, one must believe:
1. God is the highest because He's the ONLY True God
2. Jesus Christ is both the Son of God and God, He is a person of the Trinity and is not a separate god - there is only ONE True God
3. Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus; works have no bearing on salvation but are rather a result of a True Faith in Christ
4. Christ's redemptive work was his death on the Cross
5. No man can ever become a god or like God
6. God was always God, He was never man
7. God (and therefore Christ) is the Alpha and Omega, beginning and end, He is eternal - there was none before Him and will be none after Him
8. Hell is for those who die in their sins; there is one heaven where those saved through faith in Christ will spend eternity


Look at those two lists, and you'll see that these basic beliefs of Mormonism and Christianity are opposed. Also, you'll be hard pressed to find any Christian of any denomination who would deny any of the tenets on the second list, whether Catholic or Baptist or Presbyterian or Orthodox.

It is impossible for someone to be a Mormon and a Christian - by definition, a Mormon believes in things that contradict those things a Christian needs to believe in order to be a Christian.

I agree with everything you have stated. I was raised a Mormon. When I graduated from high school quit going to the Mormon church. I am now 42 and 2 years ago I found the Lord Jesus and was born again. My mother is a devout Mormon. Back in April I thought I would try and witness to her about Christianity, did not go well at all. The Mormons believe they are the only true church, my mother told me there are errors in the Bible but not her Book of Mormon, and that when Joseph Smith received his so-called vision, he was told all other churches are an abomination. My mother was not happy with me at all when I told her I accepted Christ 2 years ago. I pray for her that she will see the real truth. But in her eyes her beliefs are the only way. In my opinion the Mormons are a cult. Most of my family are Mormons and I pray they will see the real truth before its too late.

[C. Little]

I agree with everything you have stated. I was raised a Mormon. When I graduated from high school quit going to the Mormon church. I am now 42 and 2 years ago I found the Lord Jesus and was born again. My mother is a devout Mormon. Back in April I thought I would try and witness to her about Christianity, did not go well at all. The Mormons believe they are the only true church, my mother told me there are errors in the Bible but not her Book of Mormon, and that when Joseph Smith received his so-called vision, he was told all other churches are an abomination. My mother was not happy with me at all when I told her I accepted Christ 2 years ago. I pray for her that she will see the real truth. But in her eyes her beliefs are the only way. In my opinion the Mormons are a cult. Most of my family are Mormons and I pray they will see the real truth before its too late.

Wow, great post. Please keep trying with your family.

[CelticMist]

Well, which is it? You believe they are false teachers or you believe they
believe in the Jesus of Scripture and that He visited Smith in a vision?

Earlier on your reasoning was that they believed in Jesus with your supporting
"proof" being a picture of Him and the 12 hanging on their wall.

No, I'm very clear on what you've been saying. Just because it was two
different threads doesn't change the fact that you're quick to label Paula,
Warren and their ilk as false teachers but somehow think "ONLY the Father
knows!!!!" when it comes to Mormon theology.

No, It's very clear that you can't bring yourself to acknowledge that
Mormonism is a cult with a false Jesus.

I never said that.

I'm really not concerned about being PC.

What I am saying is that one who believes in the Mormon Jesus has placed
his salvation in the wrong hands because that Jesus isn't THE Jesus.
I'm saying it is a false religion; I'm not God, therefore I know not their hearts. But, I will not cast judgment on the individual, I can on the "religion". Just like Paula White, I again state, I'm not God and I don't cast judgment on her heart. She has taken the role of leading people to know Christ, therefore she will be judged harshly when she goes before the Judgment Seat of Christ.

I said assuming, I know you didn't say that however, you avoid the rest of the question I asked: If so, then all those that have come to know Jesus under all these false teachers are not saved souls, ..? You just answere the PC part, Why is that?

How do you know individuals in this religion have placed their own salvation in the "wrong Jesus" as you put it? Do you know their heart? Have you talked to them individually or are you just basing your opinion on what you know of that religion?

[JohnnyHye]

I'm saying it is a false religion; I'm not God, therefore I know not their hearts. But, I will not cast judgment on the individual, I can on the "religion". Just like Paula White, I again state, I'm not God and I don't cast judgment on her heart. She has taken the role of leading people to know Christ, therefore she will be judged harshly when she goes before the Judgment Seat of Christ.

So by this reasoning, those in other false religions, such as Buddhism and Islam, could be saved Christians as well, since even though they are in false religions under false teachers, we don't know their hearts. In fact, since we don't know anyone's heart, why witness to anyone? Just because they say they don't believe in Jesus Christ as the One True God doesn't mean that in their hearts they don't. Aren't we ASSUMING when we witness to people who claim to be buddhists or muslims that we know their hearts??? Cast judgment on Buddhism and Islam, but don't assume that the INDIVIDUALS who are buddhist or muslim don't have Christ in their heart. Is that right???


I said assuming, I know you didn't say that however, you avoid the rest of the question I asked: If so, then all those that have come to know Jesus under all these false teachers are not saved souls, ..? You just answere the PC part, Why is that?

Again, the Muslims have Jesus in their religion. Are we wrong to assume a muslim is not a Christian? We don't know each muslim's heart. Just because they say they believe something we don't really know what's in their hearts.


How do you know individuals in this religion have placed their own salvation in the "wrong Jesus" as you put it? Do you know their heart? Have you talked to them individually or are you just basing your opinion on what you know of that religion?

If someone claims to believe in Mormonism, it is not an "assumption" to believe that the person believes in the doctrines of Mormonism. And, if that person believes in the doctrines of Mormonism, then he does believe in a different Jesus. Just because someone says "I trust Jesus asa my Lord and savior" doesn't mean that person is a "Christian". What if the person is talking about a person in his neighborhood named "Jesus"??? What if he's talking about a head of lettuce that he has named "Jesus"??? What if this person has made a marble statue of a goat and called that statue "Jesus"??? In these extreme examples, it's evident that there definitely is such a thing as a "wrong Jesus".

So what's the "right Jesus"?? The Jesus as described in the Bible, what we know of Him from God's Word. And the Mormons believe in a "jesus" that's different from what the Bible teaches. Their "jesus" is not the One True God, he is one of many gods, not even the highest god for humans to worship. Their "jesus" is a brother to all men and to Satan.

This is how people can say that Mormons are not Christians. It's not like someone is claiming to be a Christian and claiming to believe in the Truth and then not showing it in their actions. In the case of Mormons, they are declaring, in saying that they are mormons, that they don't believe in the Truth of God's Word pertaining to God, Christ, and salvation.

[CelticMist]

We are not talking Muslims nor Buddhist here Johnny...

LDS is "classified" under Christianity, whether we like it or not. Buddhist and Muslim are not.. therefore I find this line of "questioning" not worth answering and getting in the thread.

You know... I'm not going to back down from what I have said. Not one here can say a Mormon is unsaved based on just the person. I have stated time and time again that it is a "false religion", but I will NOT cast judgment on any individual within that "church". Just like I know not your hearts, for I am not God and you know not mine.

God can plant His own in the worse of worse religions or denominations in Christianity out here in this world, if He deems. Who are we to say there are zero within the Mormon church that truly has accepted Christ of the Bible?

As I stated before, I'm tossing things out here so we all can "ponder on", not tear apart what we say. Bottomline from the "questioning" that has been asked for me to answer... I'm going to stick to what I feel is in my heart... I can judge the "religion", but I can't judge the individual. That is solely up to our Maker, our Creator, our God... not you nor me.

Johnny... ask the one who told me it is the "wrong Jesus". Who are we to say it is the "wrong Jesus"?... the doctrine is distorted, but who are we to say it is not the Jesus of the Bible that some have accepted as their Lord and Savior? Their doctrine is man made, therefore many many flaws within... but there are many other Christian doctrines out here that have many many flaws as well, are they too categorized as "cults"?

[ATYCLB]

I'm saying it is a false religion;First, why do you think they are a false religion?

Second, what dangers do you see in being a member of a false religion?

About Paula and her crowd, you stated:


They all are false teachers, the Bible does warn us about them and tells us to "let no man decieve you".In repeating the Biblical warning, you acknowledge that false teachers (and by
extension, false religions as they are built around false teachers) have the ability
to deceive.

So what's the deception? Why the warning?


you avoid the rest of the question I asked: If so, then all those that have come to know Jesus under all these false teachers are not saved souls, ..? You just answere the PC part, Why is that?I did answer. Just because you refuse to accept it doesn't mean I'm the one with
avoidance issues.

In addition to warnings about false teachers, the Bible also carries warnings
about following "another Jesus" and "false Christs".

Why do you think that is?

As I said upstream, if Jesus' sacrifice wasn't able to cleanse us from all our sins,
He really isn't much of a Lord and Savior.

The Bible tells us:

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
1 John 1:7

You said:


I think they do believe in JesusIf the Mormon Jesus isn't able to cleanse us from all sins, then he is "another Jesus"
and a "false Christ".

There is no salvation to be found in him.