I found an interesting question to ponder..

[Teacup]

If it is man's free will to not choose God, why do the non-calvinists pray for that man? So God will violate that mans free will?

This subject of free-will vs. sovereignty is quite circular, isn't it? :lol2

ysic, DLee

[HeIsEnough]

This subject of free-will vs. sovereignty is quite circular, isn't it? :lol2

ysic, DLee

I feel violated! :lol2

Apart from God, man can.............lets think about that for a moment. Apart from God.

Would I even know about God if He had not made Himself known?

That He did make Himself known, He still left me to wallow in my inability to choose Him?

Is this the God we know? Is that the God some claim to serve? Could it be that in spite of ourselves, God loved us enough to do something about it?

Is it impossible for man?

Yes, yes it is.

Is it possible for God?

Yes, yes it is.

So is it possible that God made a way.....made it possible? Some like to claim that God requires things from man which he cannot achieve. Tis true. He requires perfection, and I don't know anyone who thinks they are perfect. He requires 'changing your mind', can a man 'change his mind'? Do we judge these things for ourselves? Can we really judge anything for ourselves?

You see, in order for me to accept the view of a man such as Calvin, there are quite a few other things I must accept, like man truly cannot make a judgment upon anything at all really, he is forever stuck in 'animal' mode. That is, natural man. Since 'natural' man cannot even think for himself, then I must do it for him. This is the fruit of Calvin, and he proved it in his own life by attempting to make his holy Geneva. I need look no further to reject this man's thoughts, his interpretations or his fruit.

Where-o-where does that leave me?

With the scriptures of course.

What do they say?

They say (you) are a sinner, (you) need a Savior.....accept it.....change your mind.

Can the Spirit demand such a thing! Why yes, yes He can. But Spirit! What of the 'natural' man? With God, all things are possible.

[Saved by Grace_06]

This subject of free-will vs. sovereignty is quite circular, isn't it? :lol2

ysic, DLee

I feel this is a good question to ponder. Why do freewillers pray like Calvinists? Why do they not pray consistant to their beliefs and pray something like..."Lord, please put a couple of suggestions in my unsaved friends way, but by no means violate their freewill." No Christian prays like that because innately we know that God saves apart from man's will. We pray "God please save my unsaved friend, please!" And believe and hope that God would be pleased to over ride the person's choices and will and save the person.

[HeIsEnough]

Why do they not pray consistant to their beliefs and pray something like..."Lord, please put a couple of suggestions in my unsaved friends way, but by no means violate their freewill."

Because we are all fools and idjits. :noidea

[BlessedinHim]

I feel this is a good question to ponder. Why do freewillers pray like Calvinists? Why do they not pray consistant to their beliefs and pray something like..."Lord, please put a couple of suggestions in my unsaved friends way, but by no means violate their freewill." No Christian prays like that because innately we know that God saves apart from man's will. We pray "God please save my unsaved friend, please!" And believe and hope that God would be pleased to over ride the person's choices and will and save the person.

I do not pray like anyone. I pray with the understanding God has given me. I know in my heart that it is up to each individual to make that choice. I pray that God will open their eyes so they may see their need. I know that God will not force salvation on us, it is a free gift.

Many people look at us as we live out our lives, and we are the only gospel they see. That is why it is important to live out a life that is as holy as possible before others doing what we know is right. Then they may see the joy in our lives and the peace that is there, and then they want what we have.

is your joy and peace contagious or something to be desired?

[Saved by Grace_06]

I pray with the understanding God has given me.

That's it bro! We have to live with the light that God has given us.