Mother Told She'd Be Arrested for Bringing Autistic Son to Church

[lilbitsyspider]

Hmmm. Sounds like there are 3 sides to this story.

There is, your side, their side and the truth.:hat

[lilbitsyspider]

You can't realistically expect that people will come in and be disruptive and assume the majority is going to be OK with it.

If Paul wouldn't let women interrupt him in church - not allowing them to speak because they disrupted his sermons, then don't expect everyone else, including today's pastor, to be ok with these outbursts, much less the people who are trying to listen and won't get anything out of it in the end. I can already envision congregants shifting to the other side of the room.

People have to be responsible for those that are their children and so-forth. Those who might think we all just need to be "tolerant," then expect your congregation to switch churches.

Not that I agree with people who don't want people with issues in their church, but if this young boy is so strong and big and has outbursts he may also be a danger to himself. The church is obligated to protect everyone. Maybe they should have church at home. It's hard to stay focused when there is disruptive factors going on around you.

[ShannonWallace]

How many people did Jesus kick out when He was preaching?
UMMM...NONE and some of them got pretty loud and called Him all sorts of nasty names.

People should be thankful that they only have to deal with autistic behavior one time, for one hour, per week. For this family, there is no escape from it, where is this church ministering to them.

Unbelievable, shame on them


:hug


I just wanted to say 'thank you', for making the mere prospect of having to go out somewhere a far more bearable one.

It's very helpful to know there are understanding people out there.

[Wendyladi98]

My fear in all of this is that all autistic children would get this sort of treatment/stigma because all autistic children are not like this. My niece is autistic (mid to high functioning) She is 4 and is perfectly potty trained, and really doesn't resemble this child much. She has had a couple incidents where she slapped a child who was screaming at her and an adult who was singing (she is 4) but with schooling she is doing much better. People need to understand and not just label. The experts explained to us that for her, singing is like being stabbed over and over...she has very high sensitivity to sound and the violence was just her trying to make it stop. I am not condoning an atmosphere where people can get hurt and church shouldn't become a survival course, I just think people really need to understand each other. MY church has been more than supportive. Instead of just kicking her out they page me when they are going to start singing and we go back to the nursery and they come and get her when it is over. I don't know what they do with her at school (she is in a special needs pre school) but it does seem to get better with time.
bottom line is I see both sides and I do believe the real truth is somewhere in between. my other reaction is why is he in the worship service? Don't they have junior church etc? In my church kids don't go to big church until they turn 11. They are taught with their peers how to act in an age appropriate way. I am sure even though he is 13 he isn't mentally and it is cruel of the mother to expect him to act like he is normal when he is not.
I do wholeheartedly support homeschooling, but my own experience was no matter what curriculum I bought or what I did I was getting no where. We homeschooled from September to November and were worried that without some intervention She was going to get worse. We learned a big mistake we were doing in that often times when they become a problem to take with they get stuck at home with no socialization and no way to learn how to act outside of the home. Her vocabulary and behavior just after 3 weeks of special needs schooling is phenomenal. I really recommend getting some help at least at the start. sorry to get off topic, it just seems at 13 something should have been done when he was younger to help him cope with the violent behaviors which certainly have a logical reason. They help with sound sensitivity by giving the children tape recorders, bells, etc so that they have control of when it goes off...that seems to help some of them.

[ShannonWallace]

My fear in all of this is that all autistic children would get this sort of treatment/stigma because all autistic children are not like this. My niece is autistic (mid to high functioning) She is 4 and is perfectly potty trained, and really doesn't resemble this child much. She has had a couple incidents where she slapped a child who was screaming at her and an adult who was singing (she is 4) but with schooling she is doing much better. People need to understand and not just label. The experts explained to us that for her, singing is like being stabbed over and over...she has very high sensitivity to sound and the violence was just her trying to make it stop. I am not condoning an atmosphere where people can get hurt and church shouldn't become a survival course, I just think people really need to understand each other. MY church has been more than supportive. Instead of just kicking her out they page me when they are going to start singing and we go back to the nursery and they come and get her when it is over. I don't know what they do with her at school (she is in a special needs pre school) but it does seem to get better with time.
bottom line is I see both sides and I do believe the real truth is somewhere in between. my other reaction is why is he in the worship service? Don't they have junior church etc? In my church kids don't go to big church until they turn 11. They are taught with their peers how to act in an age appropriate way. I am sure even though he is 13 he isn't mentally and it is cruel of the mother to expect him to act like he is normal when he is not.
I do wholeheartedly support homeschooling, but my own experience was no matter what curriculum I bought or what I did I was getting no where. We homeschooled from September to November and were worried that without some intervention She was going to get worse. We learned a big mistake we were doing in that often times when they become a problem to take with they get stuck at home with no socialization and no way to learn how to act outside of the home. Her vocabulary and behavior just after 3 weeks of special needs schooling is phenomenal. I really recommend getting some help at least at the start. sorry to get off topic, it just seems at 13 something should have been done when he was younger to help him cope with the violent behaviors which certainly have a logical reason. They help with sound sensitivity by giving the children tape recorders, bells, etc so that they have control of when it goes off...that seems to help some of them.

I'm not condoning an atmosphere of fear and tension for others, either.

I do not fall into the category of the world having to conform in order to suit my child and his problems. Quite the contrary. There is a church we know of that allows all the autistic kids to sit in the service (they have a school for autistic children that operates in the church building itself), which I completely disagree with... at least for the teaching portion of the service.

What I find appalling is the lack of compassion, lack of even a desire to reach out and help that poor mother, who is in obvious need of assistance. Perhaps she is in need of information and tools, but she is most assuredly in need of compassion, love, and whatever help the 'church' could give her - at the very least, someone could offer to sit with the boy in a classroom and entertain him so the mother could sit through the service.

Your niece slapping the people who were being loud is totally understandable. Auditory sensitivities do feel like your ears (and brain) are being 'stabbed', and can also feel like someone is shaking the living daylights out of you. It's an awful, unbearable thing, and for little folks, they are unable to relay much of anything but 'shut up!' and that is usually relayed in screaming and hitting. By the way, take hope in the fact that she may not always have the sensitivities (they can come & go), and she will certainly learn to deal with them, or escape them, as she gets older and is taught how.

Autistic people are about the most misunderstood people in the world.

It is not at all understood - even among most professionals - that autistic people are not very much different than 'normal' persons. There is simply a blockage that prevents them from accurately portraying their true selves in their outward behaviour. They are, in essence, trapped within themselves, but they are there.

The boy in this story is the only one I've ever heard of voiding publicly. I despise the fact that the label of autism is mostly associated with horrific stories such as this, causing the opinion of the general public regarding the disorder and those hosting it to be one based in fear and disgust. It's bad enough as it is, without horror stories pushing things from bad to worse.

My guess is, the mother in this story wasn't trying to be cruel by forcing her son to act normal, but that she's desperate, seeking G-d, and perhaps hoping someone will offer assistance of some sort. Forcing autistic children to 'act normal' is a vital part of conditioning them to actually behave more appropriately, which perhaps she was in the process of, and the boy chose this action as his tool of rebelling. I think my kid peeing in church would certainly give me great pause the next time I was considering going, and autistic kids are very smart and conniving, so this could have been the case.

:bighug to your family.

[vhowell]

There is a church in our city that has a whole Ministry geared to familes and children with disabilites. They teach thier staff and volunteers how to deal with all types of disablities, and from what I have heard they are doing a wonderful job.


TOMBALL--Graceview Baptist Church is giving disabled people and their caregivers freedom to worship by offering them a little joy.

For about eight years, trained church members have cared for disabled individuals during Sunday School and worship services through the church's Joy program. It enables parents or caregivers to join the rest of the congregation for spiritual enrichment.

Volunteers lead the disabled people--whose afflictions include cerebral palsy, autism, retardation and Down syndrome--in Bible studies and recreational activities.

Some of the people attend mainstream Sunday School classes at a level they can understand, but special classes for the disabled also are offered.

The outreach enables caregivers to attend the church, said Denise Briley, mother of a child with cerebral palsy and founder of the program.

Many parents feel uncomfortable taking their disabled children to worship services because of their special needs, she said. But unless workers are trained to help disabled people, the church cannot handle them, she said.
http://www.baptiststandard.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=583&Itemid=131

Most churches however are not equipped to deal with this sort of thing, especially like the boy who is 200 pounds and potentially violent. I agree with the church that it is in the best interest of all that this boy is kept from harming others. If he was simply disruptive it would be a differnet story.

I do feel sorry for the mom though- I know what it is like to need to get OUT of the house and be with other people.......I have an autistic daughter, and when she was non-verbal (till five years old) she used to scream alot to communicate. We didn't try to take her to resturants and such, we either found a sitter or didn't go. I have left many a store with her when she was having a melt-down and went back later when she was calm. It would be great if the mom could find a place locally like Graceview to take her child to.

[TeachMe]

I work with mentally and physically disabled people.
So I do understand the pastor and the parishioner's side of it.
Some of the people I work with can be extremely strong when they get upset.
Couple that with large size and it can take 5-6 large strong men to handle one person.
I have seen it and it is not an easy thing to watch, even with staff who are trained on what to do in a situation.
In a church, where most likely, there is no one trained on how to handle a person like this, the person could get hurt, in some instances even be accidentally killed if the people don't know what they are doing.
I know that parents want their mentally disabled children to be in a normal environment, but sometimes they have to face reality that the person cannot function in a normal setting. In certain situations their life and the lives of those around him/her can be put at risk.
I'm not saying this applies to ALL disabled people......some live quite full lives, even out in the community, with assistance and supervision they do quite well.
But the ones who pose a risk to him/herself and other people, need to be thoroughly evaluated and placed in a proper environment.
It's unfortunate that we have mentally disabled people, but we do, and some parents just need to come to grips with it.

And besides, all the above, there are many benefits to the person who is mentally disabled, to be in a controlled environment.
Where I work with these people, they have training during the day to teach them everything they can possibly learn and they live in a homelike environment with other mentally disabled people, and staff to supervise.
Many learn to do household duties, such as light cooking, laundry, cleaning.
It's not bad, at all.

And one more point, I'd like to make......what will happen to that child when the parent dies?
Most children, {some normal children do, but that's beside the point} do NOT continue to live with their parents until they are in their 20's, 30's, 40's. Wouldn't it be better for the disabled person to be in a place where he can learn to live as an independent life as possible...where he would have teachers, caregivers, round the clock nursing/medical care?
The younger a mentally disabled child is reached the better able they are to reach their highest level of independence.

JMHO

[ShannonWallace]

I work with mentally and physically disabled people.
So I do understand the pastor and the parishioner's side of it.
Some of the people I work with can be extremely strong when they get upset.
Couple that with large size and it can take 5-6 large strong men to handle one person.
I have seen it and it is not an easy thing to watch, even with staff who are trained on what to do in a situation.
In a church, where most likely, there is no one trained on how to handle a person like this, the person could get hurt, in some instances even be accidentally killed if the people don't know what they are doing.
I know that parents want their mentally disabled children to be in a normal environment, but sometimes they have to face reality that the person cannot function in a normal setting. In certain situations their life and the lives of those around him/her can be put at risk.
I'm not saying this applies to ALL disabled people......some live quite full lives, even out in the community, with assistance and supervision they do quite well.
But the ones who pose a risk to him/herself and other people, need to be thoroughly evaluated and placed in a proper environment.
It's unfortunate that we have mentally disabled people, but we do, and some parents just need to come to grips with it.

And besides, all the above, there are many benefits to the person who is mentally disabled, to be in a controlled environment.
Where I work with these people, they have training during the day to teach them everything they can possibly learn and they live in a homelike environment with other mentally disabled people, and staff to supervise.
Many learn to do household duties, such as light cooking, laundry, cleaning.
It's not bad, at all.

And one more point, I'd like to make......what will happen to that child when the parent dies?
Most children, {some normal children do, but that's beside the point} do NOT continue to live with their parents until they are in their 20's, 30's, 40's. Wouldn't it be better for the disabled person to be in a place where he can learn to live as an independent life as possible...where he would have teachers, caregivers, round the clock nursing/medical care?
The younger a mentally disabled child is reached the better able they are to reach their highest level of independence.

JMHO


:twitch

As I've told my child from the moment he was born...

G-d made him - precisely as he is, I love him just as he is, I wouldn't have him any other way, and had I been given the opportunity to choose from all the children available, I'd choose him again. And again, and again, and again.

There is nothing "unfortunate" about our "having disabled people".

The unfortunate thing we do have are those who think the disabled are a misfortune.

My child does have round the clock teaching and medical care, with as "normal" a life possible - at home, with his family, where G-d put him, where he belongs, where he will reach his highest level of independence.

I'm going to shut up now, as if I do not, I shall undoubtedly earn myself another demerit, only I will fully intend to be rude and insulting with what I should love to say.

[TeachMe]

:twitch

As I've told my child from the moment he was born...

G-d made him - precisely as he is, I love him just as he is, I wouldn't have him any other way, and had I been given the opportunity to choose from all the children available, I'd choose him again. And again, and again, and again.

There is nothing "unfortunate" about our "having disabled people".

The unfortunate thing we do have are those who think the disabled are a misfortune.

My child does have round the clock teaching and medical care, with as "normal" a life possible - at home, with his family, where G-d put him, where he belongs, where he will reach his highest level of independence.

I'm going to shut up now, as if I do not, I shall undoubtedly earn myself another demerit, only I will fully intend to be rude and insulting with what I should love to say.

I didn't say that to offend you. No need to shout....as indicated by your large caps. I'm not blind.
I know you love your child just as he is, and that's wonderful.
The point I was trying to make is that not all parents have the resources that some parents do, and there's nothing wrong with a disabled child getting those resources thru a facility designed to offer that.

I'm sorry I offended you.

Peace

[Cd4u_2]

I'm not condoning an atmosphere of fear and tension for others, either.

I do not fall into the category of the world having to conform in order to suit my child and his problems. Quite the contrary. There is a church we know of that allows all the autistic kids to sit in the service (they have a school for autistic children that operates in the church building itself), which I completely disagree with... at least for the teaching portion of the service.

What I find appalling is the lack of compassion, lack of even a desire to reach out and help that poor mother, who is in obvious need of assistance. Perhaps she is in need of information and tools, but she is most assuredly in need of compassion, love, and whatever help the 'church' could give her - at the very least, someone could offer to sit with the boy in a classroom and entertain him so the mother could sit through the service.

Your niece slapping the people who were being loud is totally understandable. Auditory sensitivities do feel like your ears (and brain) are being 'stabbed', and can also feel like someone is shaking the living daylights out of you. It's an awful, unbearable thing, and for little folks, they are unable to relay much of anything but 'shut up!' and that is usually relayed in screaming and hitting. By the way, take hope in the fact that she may not always have the sensitivities (they can come & go), and she will certainly learn to deal with them, or escape them, as she gets older and is taught how.

Autistic people are about the most misunderstood people in the world.

It is not at all understood - even among most professionals - that autistic people are not very much different than 'normal' persons. There is simply a blockage that prevents them from accurately portraying their true selves in their outward behaviour. They are, in essence, trapped within themselves, but they are there.

The boy in this story is the only one I've ever heard of voiding publicly. I despise the fact that the label of autism is mostly associated with horrific stories such as this, causing the opinion of the general public regarding the disorder and those hosting it to be one based in fear and disgust. It's bad enough as it is, without horror stories pushing things from bad to worse.

My guess is, the mother in this story wasn't trying to be cruel by forcing her son to act normal, but that she's desperate, seeking G-d, and perhaps hoping someone will offer assistance of some sort. Forcing autistic children to 'act normal' is a vital part of conditioning them to actually behave more appropriately, which perhaps she was in the process of, and the boy chose this action as his tool of rebelling. I think my kid peeing in church would certainly give me great pause the next time I was considering going, and autistic kids are very smart and conniving, so this could have been the case.

:bighug to your family.

actually, I am glad she is being kicked out of mass.. Why? because it is false religion. If they let her stay, she would think the mass is very important.