Oil Refineries and Shortages

[Issachar]

I often hear folks saying that the U.S. needs to build more refineries and it is usually associated with gasoline/diesel prices. Maybe fuel oil for heating/cooking also. What I don't understand though is that there is no shortage of gasoline and diesel. Expensive? Absolutely. But it's not up on shortages. Around NW Ohio and on the news I hear/see of no shortages. There are no long lines .... except in the rare case of a station not jacking the price along with the rest on a given day.

Also, there is a large outcry for more oil. The theory is that more supply in light of current demand would lower the price. In free market theory, that is very true. But the oil industry does not work on a free market system very much. A little ... but not much.

I wish I could find it again, but a month or two ago I posted where a congressman was saying he won't vote for drilling in ANWR because he believes that it will take a generation or two, with diligent effort, to develop alternatives and that he would rather we paid more now and cut back some, so that his children and their children will have some supply of oil without it being impossibly high (literally) for most folks to buy. He did also say that it wasn't for environmental reasons ... he thought that the technology could take care of that.

I agree. I do believe in the peak oil theory to a point. Please keep in mind that peak oil is NOT a theory that the world is running out of oil, period, but rather is running out of easily accessed oil. In fact, I wonder, the devaluation of the U.S. dollar aside (even though I think it greatly contributes), if oil prices are not a way of forcing a cutback on consumption because of the industries knowledge of this.

Just wonderin' aloud ...

Issachar

[felixthecat]

It's time to be honest about this issue:

Alaska’s Gull Island Oil Fields Could Power U.S. for 200 Years

By Mark Anderson

“Crude oil is the real ‘currency’ of the world,” said Lindsey Williams at a gathering of the Midwest Concerned Citizens group in Kansas City on July 22. But Americans will never hear about huge oil and gas reserves in the United States, which, if ever tapped, would bring today’s fuel prices at least as low as $1.50 per gallon and make America more energy independent.

As a Baptist missionary in the 1970s, Williams said he rubbed elbows with members of the world’s power elite—who boasted of detailed 30-year and 50-year plans to control the flow of oil and information.

A huge quantity of crude oil and natural gas exists under Gull Island, located in the waters of Prudhoe Bay in Alaska, says Williams. He cited key British Petroleum memoranda and related the statements of upper echelon oil officials who told him that Gull Island would be kept under wraps, limiting domestic supplies so Americans would someday see prices hit up to $10 a gallon at the pump.

“Every issue in the world today relates to crude oil,” said Williams. The U.S. occupation of Iraq and the saber rattling about attacking Iran fit into the crude oil matrix.

...

The big event in that three-year period was in 1977 when an Atlantic Richfield oil executive told him, “We have just drilled into the largest pool of oil in North America—[and] in the world!”

That pool was Gull Island. It was said that there was enough natural gas to supply America for 200 years. But to this day, “not one drop” of that oil has been released to American refineries, Williams said.

Williams said the executive had warned him that the Gull Island find was highly classified. Do not repeat any of this, he was told. Obviously, that warning did not stop him.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...sland_oil.html

You're being lied to and manipulated:

View THIS:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67011147&hl=en

These are the FACTS!

Lindsey Williams talks about his first hand knowledge of Alaskan oil reserves larger than any on earth. Gas less than $1.50 a gallon! Imagine that!

Here's another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC61X78-OI0 (A few years later, it's still true. Truth doesn't change!)

So who is this Lindsey Williams ?

Lindsey Williams, who has been an ordained Baptist minister for 28 years, went to Alaska in 1971 as a missionary. The Transalaska oil pipeline began its construction phase in 1974, and because of Mr. Williams' love for his country and concern for the spiritual welfare of the "pipeliners," he volunteered to serve as Chaplain on the pipeline, with the subsequent full support of the Alyeska Pipeline Company.

Because of the executive status accorded to him as Chaplain, he was given access to the information that is documented in this book.

After numerous public speaking engagements in the western states, certain government officials and concerned individuals urged Mr. Williams to put into print what he saw and heard, stating that they felt this information was vital to national security. Mr. Williams firmly believes that whoever controls energy controls the economy. Thus, The Energy Non-Crisis.

Because of the outstanding public response that has been generated by this book, Lindsey Williams is in great demand for speaking engagements, radio, and TV shows.

More here:

http://www.reformation.org/energy-non-crisis.html

Below on the above link are chapters worth skimming.

Not only does oil affect gas prices but plastics, food delivery (surcharges) etc.. It has a MAJOR impact on nearly everything! Without affordable oil, our country will be brought to it's knees.

One can beleive what ever one wants but truth is more important to me.

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=48672

[felixthecat]

I also dont' think there is much incentive for auto makers to retrofit cars to be suitable alternate forms of energy. My guess is that it is very expensive to do that.

I do believe that within 200 years, if not sooner, there is ample time to come up with something other than oil to fuel and drive our economy. We do need to be energy dependent and not groveling around to others countries that are "unstable" begging them to release more oil. We have some here. We need to use that and stop these environMENTALISTS from the devestating impact they are having on oil. I don't want the U.S. to become a thrid world country because of their environMENTAL religion.

At Philadelphia there are tankers just waiting there to unload. Other ships have to navigate around them to get to port. They are stalled there and waiting for just the "right price".

[Issachar]

felixthecat, I agree that there are some environmentalists doing what they can to stop oil from being tapped in the U.S. But I also think that too much credit goes to them. The big oil companies and many of their friends in government, are not able to counter them? Here is something I don't understand either .... President Bush, VP Dick Cheney and certainly some Congressmen are not getting word out to the public? If they want to win an election (the Republicans), I would think this Gull Island thing would be a HUGE rallying cry. It would only take a few, well placed individuals to make such a noise about Gull Island and drive most of the population to bug the snot out of their representatives. Some might say that the MSM is hushing it. I would guess so, but there are many ways for them to get the word out besides the MSM. For example, when the president gives a state of the union speech? Sometimes presidents give random addresses to the nation over certain matters. Direct mailing? If someone in government could show the American people, enmasse, that there is easily accessable oil for 200 years just from one tap, I would think that the American people would be doing so serious considering and voting when they find out gasoline could be down to a buck fifty or whatever if they could tap this reserve.

So my sincere question is this. With the president and his vice president and military leaders and 435ish Representatives and 100 Senators and who knows who else ...... all aware of an easy fix to the nations energy supply, why do I not hear even ONE of them doing something to make the public aware. It just seems fishy to me. Even if there were some sort of crazy conspiracy behind hiding it, at least ONE person could blow the whistle. What about all the oil company lobbyists? I have one comment given the above ... if environmentalists can actually stop ALL of the U.S. government, military, oil companies and lobbyists as well as the whole of the U.S. population, from even mentioning Gull Island and what it can do for the U.S. let alone drilling and using it, then the whole world is already under the control of the environmentalists and it can't be changed. I see petitions being signed to convince otherwise, but I have a hunch if the great powers that be cannot budge the environmentalists, us common folk won't either. Also, if Gull Island is what is claimed, why do so many bother with the tidbit likes of ANWR? That's that one we DO hear about a lot.

Now, given the spiritual involvement of many environmentalists in pantheism, etc., it just might be them that are stopping this oil from being tapped.

I'm hoping you and/or someone(s) can come up with some real answer as to how these enviromentalists can pull this off. Soros is a name that is bandied about on occassion. Yes, he is very rich, but not up against the wealth of the combined monies of the oil companies and all of government. So maybe it is some spiritual thing? I honestly don't know. It would seem though that if the environmentalist truly have enough power to control entire nations and mega-corporations, that they would be able to stop the production of their pet offenders; e.g. SUV's and all the gas guzzlers as well as stop most of the major polluters. Since they haven't, it leaves me with thinking that they don't have as much power as seems attributed which makes me look for other answers. If the environmentalists are so concerned about what drilling at Gull Island and constructing a pipeline would do to the environment, why don't the oil companies promote, even if via a hollywood movie or tee vee show, how cool everything is in and around the source of the oil in the Alaskan pipeline that has been around for maybe 30 years? :idunno

Just my ramilin', out loud wonderin' ....

Issachar

p.s. A search on the net btw, reveals some very educated and influential folks on both sides of the issue. How do we decide which to believe?

[robinhoooood]

I agree with Issachar... too much credit is given to "power elites" and elite groups... We are only human... there is very little chance that great plans like this could ever be kept secret or pulled off....this is very conspiratorial in nature... one point I would like to bring up is this... Would it not be wise to release this oil now before oil gets too high and we do invest in alternatives... perhaps this makes the polywell fusion device worth investing in and it works... and then oil becomes worthless over the next decade or two.... then what good would all that oil be? Also, so then the government is going to let our economy collapse under the weight of extremely high energy prices... watch shortages and rioting happen? The world is out of time... we need more oil now... just because shortages in America have not happened does not mean the world is not short on available supply... Some countries have been completely priced out of the oil market which is known as demand destruction... So according to that minister they are not releasing this oil because it would collapse our economy? Well... either way that is going to happen... so forgive me if I have a bit of trouble swallowing this story.

[felixthecat]

felixthecat, I agree that there are some environmentalists doing what they can to stop oil from being tapped in the U.S. But I also think that too much credit goes to them. The big oil companies and many of their friends in government, are not able to counter them? Here is something I don't understand either .... President Bush, VP Dick Cheney and certainly some Congressmen are not getting word out to the public? If they want to win an election (the Republicans), I would think this Gull Island thing would be a HUGE rallying cry. It would only take a few, well placed individuals to make such a noise about Gull Island and drive most of the population to bug the snot out of their representatives. Some might say that the MSM is hushing it. I would guess so, but there are many ways for them to get the word out besides the MSM. For example, when the president gives a state of the union speech? Sometimes presidents give random addresses to the nation over certain matters. Direct mailing? If someone in government could show the American people, enmasse, that there is easily accessable oil for 200 years just from one tap, I would think that the American people would be doing so serious considering and voting when they find out gasoline could be down to a buck fifty or whatever if they could tap this reserve.

So my sincere question is this. With the president and his vice president and military leaders and 435ish Representatives and 100 Senators and who knows who else ...... all aware of an easy fix to the nations energy supply, why do I not hear even ONE of them doing something to make the public aware. It just seems fishy to me. Even if there were some sort of crazy conspiracy behind hiding it, at least ONE person could blow the whistle. What about all the oil company lobbyists? I have one comment given the above ... if environmentalists can actually stop ALL of the U.S. government, military, oil companies and lobbyists as well as the whole of the U.S. population, from even mentioning Gull Island and what it can do for the U.S. let alone drilling and using it, then the whole world is already under the control of the environmentalists and it can't be changed. I see petitions being signed to convince otherwise, but I have a hunch if the great powers that be cannot budge the environmentalists, us common folk won't either. Also, if Gull Island is what is claimed, why do so many bother with the tidbit likes of ANWR? That's that one we DO hear about a lot.

Now, given the spiritual involvement of many environmentalists in pantheism, etc., it just might be them that are stopping this oil from being tapped.

I'm hoping you and/or someone(s) can come up with some real answer as to how these enviromentalists can pull this off. Soros is a name that is bandied about on occassion. Yes, he is very rich, but not up against the wealth of the combined monies of the oil companies and all of government. So maybe it is some spiritual thing? I honestly don't know. It would seem though that if the environmentalist truly have enough power to control entire nations and mega-corporations, that they would be able to stop the production of their pet offenders; e.g. SUV's and all the gas guzzlers as well as stop most of the major polluters. Since they haven't, it leaves me with thinking that they don't have as much power as seems attributed which makes me look for other answers. If the environmentalists are so concerned about what drilling at Gull Island and constructing a pipeline would do to the environment, why don't the oil companies promote, even if via a hollywood movie or tee vee show, how cool everything is in and around the source of the oil in the Alaskan pipeline that has been around for maybe 30 years? :idunno

Just my ramilin', out loud wonderin' ....

Issachar

p.s. A search on the net btw, reveals some very educated and influential folks on both sides of the issue. How do we decide which to believe?

I understand your frustration ... even McPain is fueling the "green agenda". Facts aren'timportant. I doubt that the vast majority of politicians take the time to read up on anything someone else puts together.

Bush KNOWS we still have oil here. He's constantly pushing for drilling but the "Green Lobby" has won the debate. We no longer fail to educate people on anything. THe view is often lets' "compromise". Well, we have been "compromised" into a cornor.

Like any other leftist issue - gay marriage, Christiantity etc... the left is winning. It's just another issue they dominate. I don't fully understand why. Perhaps people are just gutless to stand UP and state facts.

In schools kids are brainwashed by scare tactics. Al Gore's movie has been discredited but schools and others don't report on that. They continue to push that agenda. It makes me crazy!!! :fear

It's no longer the "red scare". It's the "green scare" that is rearranging your life in obscene ways via more $$$$$ when there is no real reason for it. A guy on Rush summed it up well. Maybe I can find that and post it.

ANother one that is not given any attention in the media:

HEAT OF THE MOMENT
31,000 scientists reject 'global warming' agenda
'Mr. Gore's movie has claims no informed expert endorses'

Posted: May 19, 2008
8:51 pm Eastern

By Bob Unruh

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=64734

Other links on that page confirm WND is going to an extreme on this issue as they sometimes do.

Explain this:

Natural Gas Rush in Northeast Opposed!!
Damascus (PA) Citizens ^

Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2008 6:59:05

The Marcellus Shale play is the latest huge thing in natural gas, considered by some to be a "super giant" gas field. Read more here

http://www.petroleumnews.com/pntruncate/246893563.shtml

The edge of the Marcellus Shale in Northeast PA and NY is about 100 miles from NYC, which means the gas needs only a very short trip by pipeline to the major metropolitan centers.

Natural gas is the cleanest of the fossil fuels and also is a source for hydrogen for hydrogen powered vehicles.

So here are a bunch of "concerned citizens" planning to oppose it with all their might.

I'll hunt around and see if I can find the guy I am thinking of.

[felixthecat]

I can't find it. I forget the guy's name. I think it was Valdmier or something like that. He spoke on Rush Limbaugh. He gave a clear parallel of the "green scare" to communism. It's another money grab and the goal is control with wealth redistribution from "green" type taxes.

There was also an article by this guy on FOX's website. I can't remember his name or I'd post it. I believe most politicians don't check the facts. They go with the loudest voice and want to believe the squeaky wheel has it right.

[felixthecat]

Ah, my diligence paid off!

I finally found it.

Vaclav Klaus on Communism and the Ideology of Environmentalism

May 28, 2008

Listen To It! WMP | RealPlayer

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_052808/content/01125114.guest.html


Some excerpts from the transcript:

RUSH: You want to hear some conservatism? Vaclav Klaus, president, Czech Republic, yesterday, National Press Club, trying to warn everybody in America that we are being hoaxed with global warming and Algore. Here is first of several bites we have from the president of the Czech Republic, Vaclav Klaus.

KLAUS: I spent most of my life under the communist regime which ignored and brutally violated human freedom, and I remember quite well, wanted to command, not only the people, but also the nature, to command wind and rain is one of the famous slogans I remember since my childhood. In the past, it was in the name of the Marxist or the proletariat, this time in the name of the planet. Structurally, it is very similar. The current danger as I see it is environmentalism and especially its strongest version, climate alarmism.

...


KLAUS: We are now at the stage where the facts, reason, truth are powerless in the face of the global warming propaganda. We have probably and regretfully already reached that stage. Now, the whole process is already in the hands of those who are not interested in rational ideas and arguments. It is in the hands of climatologists and other related scientists who are highly motivated to look in one direction only because a large number of academic careers has evolved around the idea of manmade global warming. It is fodder in the hands of politicians who, through the manipulation of people, maximized the number of votes they seek to get from the electorate.

...

KLAUS: The green movement is trying to dictate, control, regulate, mastermind our lives. This is what we see every day. They want to discuss how many children we can have because the man is a creature which damages the atmosphere because of breathing. They are dictating us what kind of cars we can use, how big the refrigerators we can have. I speak as someone who lived in a communist era and who knows what it means to eliminate freedom, as someone who knows what it means to eliminate the market economy, someone who knows what it means to regulate, to command, to mastermind the economy from above.

...

KLAUS: I don't believe that man is destroying the planet and environmentalism is based not on small issues of saving electricity here in the National Press Club or of greening one pond or lake or water. That's not environmentalism. Environmentalism is an ideology which wants to control the world.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_052808/content/01125114.guest.html

Czech President Klaus ready to debate Gore on climate change

...

"My answer is it is our freedom and, I might add, and our prosperity," he said.

Gore a former US vice president who has become a leading international voice in the cause against global warming, was co-winner of this year's Nobel Peace Prize. Gore's effort was highlighted by his Oscar winning documentary film An Inconvienent Truth.

Klaus, an economist, said he opposed the "climate alarmism" perpetuated by environmentalism trying to impose their ideals, comparing it to the decades of communist rule he experienced growing up in Soviet-dominated Czechoslovakia.

"Like their (communist) predecessors, they will be certain that they have the right to sacrifice man and his freedom to make their idea reality," he said.

"In the past, it was in the name of the Marxists or of the proletariat - this time, in the name of the planet," he added.

Klaus said a free market should be used to address environmental concerns and said he oppposed as unrealistic regulations or greenhouse gas capping systems designed to reduce the impact of climate change.

...

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/208338,czech-president-klaus-ready-to-debate-gore-on-climate-change.html

Why fear or dismiss debate if FACTS are on your side?

[Issachar]

Thanks for your diligence felixthecat. That was a very interesting read. I think I am seeing more and more why our Lord tells us in his Word that we don't fight against flesh and blood, but powers and principalities .... Everything in the world, at some level comes down to spiritual warfare. I don't know how close of contact you've had with a real environmentalist or if you've even read much of their literature, but I can tell you, one cannot go much into where they are at without running smack into paganism; the belief that there is a god and that god is nature and nature is god. Doesn't matter if it's a scientist, politician or the people on the street.

Issachar

[Maggie]

Issachar, I used to be a pagan environmentalist.
I fully understand their mindset.
They drool over ever major disaster - natural or otherwise. (Drops population)
They want the entire world to go back to living primitively in tents or communes with horses for transportation and most, if not all, buildings burned to the ground. The earth - precious mother earth - is better off without the cancer of humanity. They think that only they deserve to live because they truly love the earth. Everybody else can just die, for all they care. What a perfect world that would be - perfect natural harmony.
I could puke when I look back at who I used to be.
It's interesting how God saves people like me. Like Paul (I am not comparing myself to Paul!) but like Paul was a Pharisee persecuting Christ's followers - who would've thought? I have a unique perspective because of what I used to be into. I'm quite a prodigal, actually. Into the occult and various false teachers as well.:rolleyes
Praise the Lord, is all I can say.
And, I'll say this, too - :) As only people who've "been there" can help people who "are there" I believe we are called to reach out to those who are where we used to be. If you read that really slowly it might make sense.