Don't touch me yet!

[BlessedinHim]

11But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,

12And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

13And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my LORD, and I know not where they have laid him.

14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.

15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

18Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

19Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD.

21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.



I dont quite get this to Acts 1

above in vs 17 He tells the woman not to touch Him for He has not yet ascended to the Father. Then the same day in vs19 He appears in front of all the disciples save one who comes in a little later. There in that bolded part he breathes the Holy Spirit into them.

8 days later in vs 26 Thomas is then with them and Jesus appears.

Then later you look in the Acts 1 and there is the ascension. He doesnt come back after this, but the Holy Spirit comes on the day of Pentecost. But Jesus already breathed on the disciples. So, I have questions.

Did Jesus go up to heaven inbetween his meeting with Mary in the garden and the disciples later that same night?

Something happened, but what?

I know there is an explanation to make this all work, Just not quite sure what it is.

Input . . . input . . . input Please

So, how does John 20, Acts 1 and then the Day of Pentecost all come together?

[acceptedinthebeloved]

[QUOTE=BlessedinHim;623715]... So, I have questions...
Did Jesus go up to heaven inbetween his meeting with Mary in the garden and the disciples later that same night? ...


I believe, as do many Bible scholars, that Christ DID ascend to heaven between the time that He spoke with Mary M. in the garden (at the tomb), and the time that He later was able to be touched. They say that in doing this He fulfilled (the feast of) Firstfruits at that time, by presenting Himself to the Father as the "firstfruits from among the dead" (I Corinthians 15:20-23.) He came back down in His glorified body which could then be handled (John 20.)
Later, He ascended... and then sent the Holy Spirit (to the Church, as a whole, at Pentecost) as "the earnest" (or down-payment; promise) for when He (Christ Himself) will fulfill this promise in the future. :)

(Many believe, as I do, that Christ Himself will fulfill this promise on some future Pentecost, of which the Holy Spirit is the guarantee.)

[Obadiah]

There's more than one way to understand John 20:17. Instead of "Do not touch Me," many render this to the effect of "Do not cling to Me" or "Stop clinging to Me," based on the range of meaning in the verb hapto and the use of the present imperative. One could view this to the effect that Yeshua is telling Mary that He has work to do in the 40 days before His ascension, and that she, despite her joy in seeing Him risen, has work to do in testifying of Him as well.

[BlessedinHim]

but Jesus gives a reason for not being touched.

[Miss Molly]

I agree this as a "don't cling to me" idea but I see Jesus to be telling Mary not to cling to the Jesus she knew before.

Mary was longing for the old Jesus and did not understand the significance of his death or resurrection until He said "Mary". In that one instance, her light bulb lit up and she understood the scriptures from a different perspective. Now she understood that Jesus was on His way to where He was supposed to be going and that was the Jesus she was to cling to.

[BlessedinHim]

Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Does this not say that he did indeed ascend before the meeting with them that same night?

[watchman]

Torah Law prohibited those who were not ritually clean to touch an object destined for an offering lest it be rendered unfit for offering.

It was to be handled and prepared by the Kohanim or Levyim.
One has to understand the purpose and spiritual intent of Kashrut as it applied to offerings in order to accept the answer.

Messiah was "set aside" or Kadosh, "Holy" "Sanctified", meaning he was separated (by death and resurrection) and therefore there was nothing about him that was unclean.

To have touched him, would have rendered him un-kosher as prescribed in Leviticus for the offering of the lamb without blemish.

Messiah atoned in the physical and died upon the cross, and He ascended to make good the spiritual redemption as a clean sacrifice.

Just as in the Garden man surly died a spiritual death in the day the fruit was eaten, he also died before a thousand years (in the same day) had passed.

Therefore closing any loopholes Satan may have ever tried to present.

Satan is all about finding a loophole (ironic that snakes seem to always find a way out of containment, unless a keeper is very thorough, and they must be checked constantly lest they escape)

G-d is all about eliminating the loophole, and making our path straight and simple to see, the walking may be difficult at times, but He lays the path in a straight and narrow line to Him.

The idea of the "don't cling to me" comes about because some tend to disregard the importance of Messiah observing and fulfilling the Law, and you better believe He was a strict follower of the Law to the letter, even to the point that He knew and understood it better than those who tried to find flaw with his teachings.

Hope that helps. He simply obeyed the Law which His Father required.

[BlessedinHim]

Thank you watchman!

[Paidfor]

Torah Law prohibited those who were not ritually clean to touch an object destined for an offering lest it be rendered unfit for offering.

It was to be handled and prepared by the Kohanim or Levyim.
One has to understand the purpose and spiritual intent of Kashrut as it applied to offerings in order to accept the answer.

Messiah was "set aside" or Kadosh, "Holy" "Sanctified", meaning he was separated (by death and resurrection) and therefore there was nothing about him that was unclean.

To have touched him, would have rendered him un-kosher as prescribed in Leviticus for the offering of the lamb without blemish.

Messiah atoned in the physical and died upon the cross, and He ascended to make good the spiritual redemption as a clean sacrifice.

Just as in the Garden man surly died a spiritual death in the day the fruit was eaten, he also died before a thousand years (in the same day) had passed.

Therefore closing any loopholes Satan may have ever tried to present.

Satan is all about finding a loophole (ironic that snakes seem to always find a way out of containment, unless a keeper is very thorough, and they must be checked constantly lest they escape)

G-d is all about eliminating the loophole, and making our path straight and simple to see, the walking may be difficult at times, but He lays the path in a straight and narrow line to Him.

The idea of the "don't cling to me" comes about because some tend to disregard the importance of Messiah observing and fulfilling the Law, and you better believe He was a strict follower of the Law to the letter, even to the point that He knew and understood it better than those who tried to find flaw with his teachings.

Hope that helps. He simply obeyed the Law which His Father required.

Great post Watchman. Very interesting. That's the first time I've ever heard that.

Couple of questions. She did touch him though and so did the other women who grabbed him around the ankles. Why wouldn't that have rendered Him ritually unclean?

Also, do you think He went up and came back down? Because later He invited them to touch Him.

[Obadiah]

Watchman:

The idea of the "don't cling to me" comes about because some tend to disregard the importance of Messiah observing and fulfilling the Law, and you better believe He was a strict follower of the Law to the letter, even to the point that He knew and understood it better than those who tried to find flaw with his teachings.

Actually, that's not the origin of this idea. The origin of this idea is an attempt to explain, without resorting to a completely unattested 'ascension before the ascension' of Jesus, why He would forbid Mary to touch Him yet encourage other disciples to touch Him. Answer is simple: He's not forbidding Mary's touch at all.

As for the whole defilement concept, I have two problems. First, it implies that our redemption was not accomplished in its entirety on the cross. Second, the idea that the eternal redemption of mankind could be negated by a simple innocent touch of a loving disciple is quite frightening to me. Our eternal salvation hangs by the thread of Jesus having to make sure no non-priests touch Him between His resurrection and His unattested 'ascension before the ascension'?

Further, you said that only a priest or Levite could touch a sacrifice. But Jesus' body was touched by all those who participated in His burial, as well as the soldiers who took Him down from the cross. Wouldn't all those touches have defiled Him if that's the dynamic at work here?

The firstfruits offering and the dedication of the heavenly sanctuary fits much better, I believe, into the period between Messiah's death and resurrection.