All Leaders Apponted by God?

[tom_roberts]

Romans 13:1-2 says, "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."


If this is so, what about the bad governments like the Nazis or the communist regimes where they killed millions?


If God is the one who sets up governments, are we supposed to obey those bad governments?


The answer is no.


We are to obey governments unless they violate Scripture.

Acts 5:29 says, "We must obey God rather than men."

Whenever a government violates biblical teaching, Christians are obligated to disobey that government.

For example, if a government were to declare that we should kill all Asians, or immigrants, or people with Down's syndrome, we should disobey.

Governments are run by people and often become corrupt. Furthermore, the Bible does never tells us to obey governments in contradiction to the revealed word of God.

In the Old Testament, God sent the Israelites to destroy different nations.

Technically speaking, we could say that God set up those various governmental systems that he told the Israelites to destroy.

But when systems become ungodly and anti-Christian, they are no longer properly representing God and should not be obeyed.


Are we seeing a conflict or a contradiction? Not at all. Let's take, for example, Exodus 20, where we see two commandments: obey your parents and do not murder.

We can see that our parents are the authorities above us, even as governments are, and we should obey them.

But, what should we do it our parents tell us to murder someone? Should we obey? Of course not.

Obedience to our parents is only proper when it's consistent with the rest of the Scriptures.

Likewise, submission to the governmental systems is only proper when it is consistent with Scripture.

Finally, let's look at Rom. 13:6-7, "For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor."


Notice that Paul says that the rulers are servants of God. This is the context of the submission that is mentioned at the beginning of the chapter.

If these rulers are no longer servants of God, and if they contradict Scripture, they are not to be obeyed.
http://www.carm.org/questions/government.htm

[Programmer]

I've been following this story (http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/689) for a few years. Its about an Iranian man who converted from Islam to Christianity. Iran is governed by Sharia law, and the law says that apostaties are unworthy of life and must be stoned to death if they don't reconvert to Islam. Due to international pressure from Christian groups worldwide, the man hasn't been executed yet, he's still sitting in prison, and until he reconverts to Islam, the Iranian court will be dreaming up all kinds of other reasons to kill the man.

I remember reading an interview from the man. He said (and I'm paraphrasing here) "It is the utmost absurdity that Iran wants to charge me with breaking Islam law. Only Muslims should obey Muslims law. I am not a Muslim, I am a Christian, so why should I have to obey a Muslim law? Not my religion, not my rules, thats they way it should be."


Everything above is just an introduction to this fact: I used to vote in every election since I became a registered voter, but I haven't voted for anything since 2005.

The interview of the Iranian man had a profound effect on my political attitude: everytime I vote, I cast a vote for my God. However, by my own admission, I vote because I want everyone to obey God's rules, even if they aren't members of my religion. However, if I'm consistent with that belief, it means that I should agree that the man should have executed by the Iranian state --- which I obviously DO NOT agree with. When I vote, I'm faced with this dilemma

- accept that my religious rules don't apply to non-members of my religion, so I should make everyone feel happy and cast a vote against my God, which I'm not willing to do.

- accept that my religious rules apply to non-members of my religion, so I cast a vote for God... but then I'd have to concede that the Iranian man should have been executed for breaking a rule of a foreign religion that he's not even a part of in the first place. And if I accept that my religious rules apply to non-members of my religion, I'd have to accept the reverse, which I'm not willing to do.

Its a lose-lose situation, so I choose not to vote at all. I know 99.999% of non-Christians will never make the same consideration on my behalf, but I'm content with holding on to my principles to the very end, even when no one else is doing the same.

Its an election year again, and I'm probably going to stay home on election day for the 3rd consecutive year in a row. I just wanted to get everyone else's thoughts on this: is it reasonable to say that Christian rules apply to people who aren't even Christians?

[Anddra]

God's rules apply to the whole of His creation, whether people want to accept that or not. The rules created by false religions following false gods are not God's rules. I would go with God.

[Buzzardhut]

Gravity is a good rule to follow

[HeIsEnough]

is it reasonable to say that Christian rules apply to people who aren't even Christians?


John 3:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=50&chapter=3&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

1 John 2:15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=69&chapter=2&verse=15&version=31&context=verse)
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
It is reasonable to say that we are in the world, but not a part of it, nor do the "rules" of the Church apply to the world.

It seems as if you've fallen into a trap of thinking you are voting for God in the world.

We were already told that this world will hate us, for loving Christ. We were already told that this world will persecute us, for doing nothing but loving Christ. We were already told that this world will not follow nor receive God, so come out of this world. In short, those who feel that they are to implement God's Kingdom onto this world, do so in vain.

Cast your vote with prayer, and then move on to the real work which God gives His people, bringing people out of this world into God's Kingdom of light, which the world hates. Be thankful that God has given you the privilege to live in the US where your persecution is light. One day that may change.

As far as the man in the article, God will give him peace over his situation if he searches the scriptures. Who knows, perhaps he will stumble upon this:

Acts 4

18Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.

[Baron Nor]

The interview of the Iranian man had a profound effect on my political attitude: everytime I vote, I cast a vote for my God.

I am assuming that you mean you think about your religious principles before casting a vote.

However, by my own admission, I vote because I want everyone to obey God's rules, even if they aren't members of my religion.

But, we have been called out of the world, and the world hates us. We are not put here to make sure that everyone follows God's rule. We were given the charge to take the message of the gospel out into a dying world.

Everyone has a different role to play: Ephesians 4:11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers,

12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;

You are not responsible for forcing your belief on others. Again, we are to preach the good news of the gospel, and those with ears to hear and eyes to see will respond.

However, if I'm consistent with that belief, it means that I should agree that the man should have executed by the Iranian state --- which I obviously DO NOT agree with.

I wouldn't agree either. In Iran, you see what happens when religion and government get intertwined. Hence, I personally don't want our government becoming intertwined with Christianity. In the end times, as told by the book of Revelation, tells us about a false prophet who will sell out to government and cause people to accept the mark. I want government to stay out of Christianity.

Now, does that mean a Christian can't run for office or be involved in government? No. We need Godly men in there. The problem is that we can't force our beliefs on non-believers. Christ did not admonish this. He said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

Just as the Christians were persecuted by the Romans, so to are our Christian brothers and sisters persecuted in countries such as this. In China they have also persecuted Christians in this manner.

Christ never said it would be easy. He tells us he sends us out as sheep into the midst of wolves. We are to be wise as serpents. Becoming a Christian in most of these countries can be a death sentence.

When I vote, I'm faced with this dilemma

- accept that my religious rules don't apply to non-members of my religion, so I should make everyone feel happy and cast a vote against my God, which I'm not willing to do.

- accept that my religious rules apply to non-members of my religion, so I cast a vote for God... but then I'd have to concede that the Iranian man should have been executed for breaking a rule of a foreign religion that he's not even a part of in the first place. And if I accept that my religious rules apply to non-members of my religion, I'd have to accept the reverse, which I'm not willing to do.

You have to vote your conscience. If you feel it is a sin to vote for a candidate that goes against what you feel, then don't vote. As Paul said, a sin for one person might not be a sin for another, and just the opposite is true. Vote your conscience.

I just wanted to get everyone else's thoughts on this: is it reasonable to say that Christian rules apply to people who aren't even Christians?

I would say that you can't apply your Christian rules and beliefs to non-believers. You can witness and try to get them to see why Christ is the way, the truth, and the light, but you can't force them into this. Secular government, the world, will always be at war with God.

We have been called out, but they are still in and of the world.

Grace and Peace,

Baron Nor

[Cd4u_2]

If the rules of the land is not against the bible, they should obey it.

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
Romans 13:1-7

http://www.gotquestions.org/laws-land.html <--- here is a good article

[MsSophie]

I don't see the correlation at all (OP) to voting in an American election and the Christian being held prisoner and possibly being put to death. When you vote in an American election you are voting on your principles and what you would like to see implemented. The other person who votes is doing the same thing. It's a democratic process.

[BlessedinHim]

The only rules that should apply to all are humane and consistent ones

Do not kill(murder)
Do not lie
Do not commit adultery
Do not covet
Do not steal
Do not bear false witness


What society does not agree with these? You should vote, vote for someone who will hold these up. If you do not vote against those who would say that murdering an unborn child is ok, then you are saying you think it is ok if some people do that. Do you really think it is ok to murder a child right before he/she is born?

[ATYCLB]

I cast a vote for my God. However, by my own admission, I vote because I want everyone to obey God's rules, even if they aren't members of my religion.

- accept that my religious rules don't apply to non-members of my religion, so I should make everyone feel happy and cast a vote against my God, which I'm not willing to do.

Who is your God and what is your religion? :)