Parable of the Sower do the stony and thorny ground represent saved people?

[JesusisTHEway]

Luke 8:5-8
5A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

6And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.

7And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.

8And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Luke 8:12-15

12Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.




I was wandering if here people thought the stony and thorny ground were representitive of genuinely saved believers or not. I believe they are both saved here's why:

In verse 12 it says the devil takes the seed away and keeps them from believing and being saved. It does not say anything about the other not being saved. In fact verse 13 specifically says that those that fell on the rock believed and the Bible is very clear that belief is the only thing necessary for salvation (John 3:16). While the Bible does not specifically say that the thorny ground believe it does say that thorns sprang up with it showing that it does believe, and in order for something to be choked it must have sprouted up and believed meaning they too are saved.

It is certainly true that we should all desire to be like the good ground; however making that a conditon of salvation is in my opinion wrong. The stony ground is about believers who not only are carnal but stop believing altogether, but are still saved because they did believe, the Bible says in II Timothy 2:13 "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." clearly showing even if a believer ceases to believe they are still saved. The thorny ground on the other hand are believers who continue in faith but are carnal and live little or no different than the world, but are still saved because they believe. The good ground is what we should all strive to be faithful, fruitful, commited believers in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

For an excelllent in depth article dealing with this issue go here http://www.faithalone.org/journal/1999i/J22-99a.htm

[Hootmon]

The thorny ground on the other hand are believers who continue in faith but are carnal and live little or no different than the world, but are still saved because they believe. I think I agree with that.

From the Complete Jewish Bible translation...

Luk 8:14 As for what fell in the midst of thorns these are the ones who hear; but as they go along, worries and wealth and life's gratifications crowd in and choke them, so that their fruit never matures.

They 'hear', but their fruit never matures. Nevertheless, they still have fruit.

[Nikilyn]

I don't agree. I look at it this way.

The ones in the rocks are kind of like people you share the word with and while they are there with you they seem all excited about it and learning more, but as soon as they leave do they think about it again?, do they go to church or study or read the bible? Also these could include people that just go to church and that is it. People who don't take the time to even look at God's word outside of church. Are those people really saved? I also think concerning the thorny ground. If you are saved you should live like you are saved and Jesus said you will know men by their fruits and also if you remember when he is talking about being hungry and they didn't feed him etc., (sorry my passage lookup isn't working, I am sure someone will post them) also if you are not bringing any fruit this reminds me of the the parable of the talents and the man with one talent hid his in the ground and gained nothing more then what he already had.

So anyways, just my thoughts

[Mailman Dan]

The followers of Christ asked Him what that ment in Luke. It's just a few verses down to hear the answer..

And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?

10And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

11Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

12Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

13They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

14And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

15But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

16No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

17For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

Dan~~~>thinks most churches have a problem believing the answer

[Hootmon]

The followers of Christ asked Him what that ment in Luke. It's just a few verses down to hear the answer.. That has already been acknowledged. Any disagreement seems based mainly on the interpretation of verse 14

14And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

'Perfection' means something more like 'maturity' or 'completeness' in that context.
Luk 8:14

(AMP) And as for what fell among the thorns, these are [the people] who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked and suffocated with the anxieties and cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not ripen (come to maturity and perfection).

(ASV) And that which fell among the thorns, these are they that have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

(CJB) As for what fell in the midst of thorns these are the ones who hear; but as they go along, worries and wealth and life's gratifications crowd in and choke them, so that their fruit never matures.

(ESV) And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature.

(KJV) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

(MKJV) And those which fell among thorns are the ones who, when they have heard, go forth and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of life, and do not bear to maturity.

(NASB) "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

(NIV) The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature.

(YLT) `And that which fell to the thorns: These are they who have heard, and going forth, through anxieties, and riches, and pleasures of life, are choked, and bear not to completion.
The fruit is clearly (to me at least) present, just not as good as it should be.

[Mailman Dan]

I think the bigger issue comes and verse 12 and 13.

12Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.


So are they saved or not, after hearing and having the Word taken out of their heart?

Or verse 13...

13They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.


Saved or not? Lots of people fall into these catagories....


Dan~~~>believes it to be a dangerous place

[JesusisTHEway]

The ones in verse 12 are pretty obviously not saved it says "lest they should believe", showing clearly they never believed. The ones in verse 13; however are more ambiguous it says they, "for a while believe", and given that John 3:16 says if someone believes they have everlasting life, I am inclined to believe they are saved. If Jesus said they appear to believe, or it seems they believe, then it would be obvious they are not saved, but He just said that they believe, which leads me to think they are saved.

[Hootmon]

Saved or not? Lots of people fall into these catagories.... No root. No fruit.

[BlessedinHim]

Question: "What is the meaning of the Parable of the Sower?"

Answer: The Parable of the Sower (also known as the Parable of the Four Soils) is found in Matthew 13:3-9; Mark 4:2-9; and Luke 8:4-8. After presenting this parable to the multitude, Jesus interprets it for His disciples in Matthew 13:18-23; Mark 4:13-20; and Luke 8:11-15.

The Parable of the Sower concerns a sower who scatters seed, which falls on four different types of ground. The hard ground “by the way side” prevents the seed from sprouting at all, and the seed becomes nothing more than bird food. The stony ground provides enough soil for the seeds to germinate and begin to grow, but because there is “no deepness of earth,” the plants do not take root and are soon withered in the sun. The thorny ground allows the seed to grow, but the competing thorns choke the life out of the beneficial plants. The good ground receives the seed and produces much fruit.

Jesus’ explanation of the Parable of the Sower highlights four different responses to the gospel. The seed is “the word of the kingdom.” The hard ground represents someone who is hardened by sin; he hears but does not understand the Word, and Satan plucks the message away, keeping the heart dull and preventing the Word from making an impression. The stony ground pictures a man who professes delight with the Word; however, his heart is not changed, and when trouble arises, his so-called faith quickly disappears. The thorny ground depicts one who seems to receive the Word, but whose heart is full of riches, pleasures, and lusts; the things of this world take his time and attention away from the Word, and he ends up having no time for it. The good ground portrays the one who hears, understands, and receives the Word—and then allows the Word to accomplish its result in his life. The man represented by the “good ground” is the only one of the four who is truly saved, because salvation’s proof is fruit (Matthew 3:7-8; 7:15-20).

To summarize the point of the Parable of the Sower: “A man’s reception of God’s Word is determined by the condition of his heart.” A secondary lesson would be “Salvation is more than a superficial, albeit joyful, hearing of the gospel. Someone who is truly saved will go on to prove it.” May our faith and our lives exemplify the "good soil" in the Parable of the Sower.

http://www.gotquestions.org/parable-sower.html

[Mailman Dan]

The man represented by the “good ground” is the only one of the four who is truly saved, because salvation’s proof is fruit (Matthew 3:7-8; 7:15-20).




It is scary to think about. It would mean hell for many professing "back sliders" who left the faith. Thats a high number. Barna number (if accurate) put that at 90%. If their poll is right, 53% of Christians think "good people" will be allowed into heaven without any faith...it might be worse.

Dan~~~>thinks that would explain the "narrow path" being found by few