Please Help Me Understand Who Jesus Is-

[w8ing4Yeshua]

There's some things that I'm solid on (i think?), like knowing Jesus died for the sins of all humanity, and that he was the final atonement required by God to cover sin for all time.

I know Jesus is called "the son of God," but was he God in the flesh too?

My image of Jesus, whether correct or not, is that he was God, after God made himself into flesh. Is this way off base and totally wrong?

For instance, if Jesus wasn't God in the flesh, then how could he have been with God from the beginning of creation? Doesn't the bible say that he was always with God? In Revelation, doesn't Jesus say "I am the alpha and the omega?" Isn't that the same as saying he is God? And why would he say things like "no man knows these things, only the father in heaven knows..." unless he wasn't God?

I would appreciate a scriptural understanding of the personality of Jesus and whether or not he was God in the flesh. Was Jesus supernatural before his death, or did that only happen after he rose from the dead? Were his powers to work miracles on earth nothing more than the result of living a perfect life and having a perfect belief in God?

I know he came to be by supernatural means through the virgin birth, but how was he different from you or I in terms of what he had to learn about God? Was his ministry and knowledge of God simply an innate part of his being, or did he have to learn as he grew older that he was the savior of all the world, as any of us has to learn scripture? Was he born knowing who he was?

I have a hard time compartmentalizing what the roles of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, are, and how each is supposed to be present in our lives. Are they 3 distinct entities, or three seperate parts that comprise one?

I know that Jesus is supposed to be the mediator between God the Father and man, but is that just in terms of him mediating our ultimate forgiveness through believing in the sacrifice he made for us, or is that in all things?
If we pray to God, does he hear our prayers if we don't pray in the name of Jesus? Jesus instructed us to pray The Lord's Prayer, which is praying to God the Father.

When I pray, sometimes I don't know whether I'm supposed to be praying to God, Son, or Holy Spirit, or all 3 at the same time.. I usually begin my prayers and end my prayers "In Jesus' name," but sometimes I feel like I don't really know how to pray, or who to pray to.

Does this make sense to anyone, or are these the ramblings of a lunatic?

I was raised a Catholic (which might be part of the reason for my confusion- no disrespect to Catholics intended) and went to a private Catholic school for 12 years from the 4th throough the 12th grade. I never believed in any of it after I grew older and after I moved out on my own I totally abandoned any faith in God until I re-discovered him on my own, apart from Catholicism, which I will never go back to.

I guess I'm confused about the three distinct personalities of God, and how they meld into one, and which aspects of the three I'm supposed to apply to my life, and how. Especially in prayer.

If my questions are ridiculous to you, I apologize, as it's not intentional on my part. It's just ignorance, I assure you. I admit to being vary wary of "organized" churches, and I'm not a member of any denomination. I'm just a guy that has a bible and believes in the truth of it with all my heart, yet sometimes, still feel very lost.

I know I believe in God, and Jesus, and I know that when I was rediscovering God, I felt the unquestionable prescence of the Holy Spirit warming my soul and welcoming me into his family, as if he was saying "Finally!" to me, but I still feel, all these years later, like I don't really know the details of who God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit really are. I feel like I'm cheating God by not really understanding who he is, or at least grievously cheating myself.

More than anything, I feel like God/Son/Holy Spirit desperately want me to understand who they are and what each means to me, but I still can't find peace in that aspect of my faith.

I know that the body of Christ at Rapture Ready is very informative and usually sound in their interpretation of things, and I would be most appreciative of anyone who could help me to clear some of these questions up. Maybe it's really obvious and I'm just not seeing it, but it's something I've been struggling with even when I learned that God is real. Knowing that God is real, and believing in Jesus and what he did for me, still doesn't explain how I'm supposed to relate to them, and understand them.

I would also appreciate scriptural references if possible, not necessarily the exact quotes or anything, but an answer based on doctrine that you may already know through perhaps struggling with the same questions yourself before finding the answers.

For instance, I can't understand how Jesus could be "divine," yet not be God.
Is God the same as Jesus, other than the fact that it was Jesus that died on the cross? Was God the father on the cross with Jesus? How does the holy spirit fit into it? Why is the Holy Spirit a distinct entity of God? Wouldn't God have a spirit anyway that is already an intrinsic part of his nature and omniscience? If you're praying to God, aren't you also essentially praying to the Holy Spirit? If Jesus isn't God, yet was with him from the foundation of the world, was he with God in the spirit only? Am I totally off base here or what?

God bless you, and I thank you in advance if you can help me in any way. I feel like the last step in my faith needs to be knowing exactly how to understand each aspect of God/Son/Holy Spirit, and I'm not there yet. Heck, I don't even know if I framed my questions in the right way. It's like I know what I want to ask, but don't know how to ask it, which is why this post is so long and rambling.:(

[HeIsEnough]

Some quick replies..

I know Jesus is called "the son of God," but was he God in the flesh too?

Yes.

My image of Jesus, whether correct or not, is that he was God, after God made himself into flesh. Is this way off base and totally wrong?

Perhaps not totally, just some semantics. There was never a time, nor will there ever be that He was not God.

Was Jesus supernatural before his death, or did that only happen after he rose from the dead? Were his powers to work miracles on earth nothing more than the result of living a perfect life and having a perfect belief in God?

Yes, even before His death. He chose to give us the example of what we were to do (pray to the Father). You will notice in scripture that much of what He did, He prayed to the Father for. This is our example. He always had the power over life and death. He laid down His life for the sheep.

There are some links (http://www.rr-bb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=63)here you can study. It will continue to grow with more links.

[jeshurun]

hello w8ting4yeshua,

I think you are asking if Jesus Christ had pre-incarnate existence. The answer is yes. He was hinted at even in the old testament. Here is an example:Proverbs 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, and descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in his garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou knowest?

[BlessedinHim]

In Genesis even it says: "let us make man in our image"

[Hootmon]

I know Jesus is called "the son of God," but was he God in the flesh too? The Son was 'begotten' of the Father. They share the same essential nature.


Was Jesus supernatural before his death, or did that only happen after he rose from the dead? Were his powers to work miracles on earth nothing more than the result of living a perfect life and having a perfect belief in God? He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
(Col 1:15-17)

All things were created through Him. He pre-existed all of creation.


I know he came to be by supernatural means through the virgin birth, but how was he different from you or I in terms of what he had to learn about God? Was his ministry and knowledge of God simply an innate part of his being, or did he have to learn as he grew older that he was the savior of all the world, as any of us has to learn scripture? Was he born knowing who he was?And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
(Luk 2:40)

He grew in wisdom as He matured, though the exact nature of that 'growing' isnt revealed in Scripture.


Are they 3 distinct entities, or three seperate parts that comprise one? The Trinity has aspects of both.


I know that Jesus is supposed to be the mediator between God the Father and man, but is that just in terms of him mediating our ultimate forgiveness through believing in the sacrifice he made for us, or is that in all things? The blood of the Son's sacrifice covers you. The mediation is a complete one.

When God looks at you, as a believer, He sees you through 'blood-colored glasses'. He sees 'Jesusness' in you.


If we pray to God, does he hear our prayers if we don't pray in the name of Jesus? Jesus instructed us to pray The Lord's Prayer, which is praying to God the Father.

When I pray, sometimes I don't know whether I'm supposed to be praying to God, Son, or Holy Spirit, or all 3 at the same time.. I usually begin my prayers and end my prayers "In Jesus' name," but sometimes I feel like I don't really know how to pray, or who to pray to. The phrase 'in Jesus' name' means 'with the delegated authority of Jesus'. Its not some sort of 'magic word'.

As a believer, all of your prayers carry that delegated authority as long as your prayers are within His will.


I guess I'm confused about the three distinct personalities of God, and how they meld into one, and which aspects of the three I'm supposed to apply to my life, and how. Especially in prayer. The Trinity is one of the harder concepts to grasp in all of Scripture. Be comforted in the fact that your prayers are heard despite your confusion.


For instance, I can't understand how Jesus could be "divine," yet not be God.
Is God the same as Jesus, other than the fact that it was Jesus that died on the cross? Was God the father on the cross with Jesus? How does the holy spirit fit into it? Why is the Holy Spirit a distinct entity of God? Wouldn't God have a spirit anyway that is already an intrinsic part of his nature and omniscience? If you're praying to God, aren't you also essentially praying to the Holy Spirit? If Jesus isn't God, yet was with him from the foundation of the world, was he with God in the spirit only? Am I totally off base here or what? Slow down there, Sparky. :heh

The Father is God. The Son is God. THe Holy Spirit is God. The three are 'echad', which is the Hebrew word for 'united as one'.

The other bits need to be addressed a few at a time... :)

[Kliska]

These are all spot-on replies...I'd also add, if you are concerned about prayer, for comfort just look at the form Jesus gave to us in various scripture to pray (The Trinity is involved in our prayer life); Pray to the Father (Matthew 6:9), in the name of the Son (John 14:14, John 16:23, etc...), with the help of the Holy Spirit (Jude 1:20, Romans 8:26, etc...). The Father is not The Son is not The Holy Spirit, they are different "persons," but are all God, and God is one, there is only one God; 1 x 1 x 1 = 1

Here's a good write-up on the Trinity: http://www.carm.org/doctrine/trinity.htm

Edit to add to make clear: It is definitely not a set, legalistic thing to whom you must address your prayer to (Father, Son, or Holy Spirit) as they are all God, I'm just sensing you are unsure about prayer. For example, Stephen when being stoned said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit" Acts 7:59. The way I talk about it above is to show how the Trinity is clearly involved in our prayer life, and in general (not dogmatically, nor 100% of the time) that's kind of my style of prayer. (Also see http://www.carm.org/questions/pray_to.htm)

[w8ing4Yeshua]

Thanks to all of you!

I think you helped me clear a few things up. It sounds like I was going down the right path, just maybe with a blindfold on, not seeing everything as clearly as I would like. And especially thanks for all the links you provided. I have the pages bookmarked with the links and will be studying them all.

Hootmon, sorry for asking so many questions at the same time. It seemed like one question was leading to many others and I couldn't stop from spewing them all out.:lol2

At any rate, I greatly appreciate all the links and all your wisdom and thoughts on this subject, especially the part about the Trinity not exactly being the easiest concept to understand. That made me feel a little better. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't completely "get it" with 100% confidence, but from just reading through a couple of the links, it already started making a little more sense. As long as God knows I'm trying to understand him and love him the way he wants, I guess that's what is most important. I love him for caring enough about us to suffer for our sins, and I hope that's what is most important to him, as that is the one aspect of his personality that I will never, ever be confused about.

Thanks to all of you again for taking the time to help!

:hat