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Sing4Him
June 15th, 2008, 10:47 PM
Using the 'Message' in your message?

Written by J.R.Hall

The following was written in response to the many questions we receive about whether or not the 'Message' translation by Eugene Peterson should be used in the pulpit. Many people have indicated that they have heard the Message being quoted from or used in their churches.

The intent of this article will not be to come off as overly critical in response to the question, but rather I hope it will thought provoking and it will enable us to make our own scripturally sound decision on the issue.

Scripture says:

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Righteous judgment is exercised when the item for judgment is examined through the looking glass of the Holy Scriptures. The very word 'discern' is defined as exactly that.

With that understanding in mind, let's look to the question at hand.

Is it THE Message?

Although the original reasons for the Message's writing may indeed have been genuine and at it might have been the working of a man who desperately wanted to serve God through some means. I myself have a Message paraphrase and I look at the electronic version of it from time to time when reading through passages of my own study bibles. I am, however resolved to no longer quote from it, because I have found items within its pages that concern me greatly. These concerns are strong and valid enough to cause me not to endorse this book either intentionally or unintentionally. I want us all to recognize some real problems with utilizing the Message as our only bible, or even as using it as a bible to read our kids. There are some real dangers here if we take Eugene's translation at face value as opposed with mom or dad reading from a 'real' translation with mom or dad explaining through the tough points in language.

Remember that our understanding of scriptures comes from the Holy Spirit and good, honest, hermeneutics and we also need to remember that God created language to give us His word.

Psalm 12:6-7, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

I am going to list some passages, and I want us to read them and carefully consider the impact of the Message translation opposed to a more word-for-word, or in my opinion accurate, translation. The more 'accurate' translation I have chosen is the King James Version. Please know that I am not promoting King James 'onlyism' by doing this, but rather I chose the KJV because it is my personal favorite for study and that the King James version is a 'word-for-word' translation by nature.

John 3:5

(KJV) Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(Message) Jesus said, "You're not listening. Let me say it again. Unless a person submits to this original creation--the 'wind hovering over the water' creation, the invisible moving the visible, a baptism into a new life--it's not possible to enter God's kingdom.

Christ was responding to Nicodemus and saying that a man inherits the Kingdom of God, through the cleansing water of salvation (Hebrews 10:22, Ez 36:24) and the rebirth of the new Spirit. As Nicodemus was a jew, he would not have been thinking of baptism, he would have known and thought of the cleansing water that was promised in the old testament passages like the Ezekiel 36:24 text.

Eugene's rendering of the text muddies this truth.

Romans 9:27-28

(KJV) Rom 9:27 Isaiah also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom 9:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
(Message) Isaiah maintained this same emphasis: If each grain of sand on the seashore were numbered and the sum labeled "chosen of God," They'd be numbers still, not names; salvation comes by personal selection. God doesn't count us; he calls us by name. Arithmetic is not his focus.

Where did Israel go? This is a promise that Israel shall be saved. It's gone in the Message. Removing Israel from this verse is a theological problem as it changes the meaning of the text and replaces Israel with the term 'chosen by God'.

This type of paraphrase translation gives birth to replacement theology.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

(KJV) 1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

(Message) Don't you realize that this is not the way to live? Unjust people who don't care about God will not be joining in his kingdom. Those who use and abuse each other, use and abuse sex, use and abuse the earth and everything in it, don't qualify as citizens in God's kingdom.

Who doesn't inherit the Kingdom of God? The Scriptures give a definite list and the Message seriously watered down the list.

You have to now ask the question why? Was not the original word for word language clear enough? Even, he New Living Translation which is not a literal translation, but rather a Dynamic Equivalence, says this:

(NLT) 1Co 6:9 Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

Notice how the words of the list are retained, with just a more modern language. This list is important as it clearly pinpoints who will NOT inherit the Kingdom. The Message's broad brush makes it easier to squirm out from under the standard of God's judgement and may give way to someone interpreting their personal sin, not as vile and damning as God truly views it.

Matthew 16:24-25

(KJV) Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

(Message) Then Jesus went to work on his disciples. "Anyone who intends to come with me has to let me lead. You're not in the driver's seat; I am. Don't run from suffering; embrace it. Follow me and I'll show you how. Self-help is no help at all. Self-sacrifice is the way, my way, to finding yourself, your true self.

WHAT?!?

There is a huge difference between "letting Christ lead", and "denying self" and "taking up our own cross" in the footsteps of Jesus. And what does this have to do with finding our 'true self' as Eugene states it? Nothing. This passage is about sacrificing self, so there is no self, that we are dead to self, so we can effectively then be a follower of Christ.

This passage of scripture plainly gives the principals of Christian life. 1. To have a sincere desire to belong to Christ - 'If any man will come after me (be Willing to be my disciple)…' 2. To renounce self-dependence, and selfish pursuits - 'Let him deny Himself.' 3. To embrace the condition which God has appointed, and bear trials and tribulations we are promised while walking the Christian road -'Let him take up His Cross.' 4. And To imitate Jesus, and do and suffer all in his spirit - 'Let him Follow Me.'

Eugen Peterson's rendering of this verse, plain and simply - mangles the true meaning of the text.

Matthew 10:28

(KJV) Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

(Message) "Don't be bluffed into silence by the threats of bullies. There's nothing they can do to your soul, your core being. Save your fear for God, who holds your entire life--body and soul--in his hands.

The concerning part here is the removal of the words 'destroy' and 'hell'. The true rendering of the text relays a dire result for those who do not fear God.

Matthew 12:32

(KJV) Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

(Message) If you reject the Son of Man out of some misunderstanding, the Holy Spirit can forgive you, but when you reject the Holy Spirit, you're sawing off the branch on which you're sitting...

Sawing off the branch?!? No.. how about, "you're damned to hell!". The truth of this passage is that if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, the sin will not be forgiven you. As sin cannot be present before a Holy and Righteous God, then you will never be allowed in the presence of God. There are two eternal states: 1) The Presence of God - New Heaven, New Earth; or 2) Absent from God - The Lake of Fire.

If we water down the hope and true meaning of the Gospel, we lack the conviction that many need to know just how much God hates sin.

The Lord's Prayer

(KJV) Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.


(Message) Mat 6:9 With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this: Our Father in heaven, Reveal who you are.
Mat 6:10 Set the world right; Do what's best-- as above, so below.
Mat 6:11 Keep us alive with three square meals.
Mat 6:12 Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Mat 6:13 Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil. You're in charge! You can do anything you want! You're ablaze in beauty! Yes. Yes. Yes. :puke

The Lord's Prayer!?!

Really.. was the Lord's prayer so hard to understand that we had to change the entire meaning of it? Note how the Message would now have us ask God to Keep us forgiven as opposed to us actually repenting and ASKING for forgiveness.

Note also how there is no mention of our desire to have God's Kingdom on earth, but rather, "oh Lord, just set the world right and make everything all better…"..... sigh.....

Revelation 11:17

(KJV) Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
(Message) and sang, We thank you, O God, Sovereign-Strong, WHO IS AND WHO WAS. You took your great power and took over--reigned!

What happened to the Promise of His coming?!? Why did Eugene skip the words 'and art to come'?!? Scripture is clear that Christ's coming is our blessed hope. It's what we are to hope for, what we are promised countless times in scripture - that is to occur.

1 Corinthians 6:17-18

(KJV) 1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
(Message) "Since we want to become spiritually one with the Master, we must not pursue the kind of sex that avoids commitment and intimacy, leaving us more lonely than ever - the kind of sex that can never "become one." There is a sense in which sexual sins are different from all others. In sexual sin we violate the sacredness of our own bodies, these bodies that were made for God-given and God-modeled love, for "becoming one" with another."

Here we have the word Master replacing Lord. We also seem to be condoning all types of sex as long as it is committed and intimate; we've interjected the sense of loneliness as a result of fornication, and hold on minute, we apparently have forgotten, or changed what the word Fornication actually means - sexual immorality.

John 1:18

(KJV) John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

(MESSAGE) No one has ever seen God, not so much of a glimpse. This one-of-a-kind God-expression, who exists at the very heart of the Father, has made him plain as day.

To translate "the only begotten Son" as "this one-of-a-kind God-expression" is not only heretical; it is absurd.

I can list many more of these translational freedoms that Eugene Peterson has used in his rendering of the Holy Word of God. But there are other concerning patterns throughout the translation.

Jesus is Lord

One of the most concerning things that we notice is that the Message never seems to acknowledge Jesus as Lord. It always renders 'Master', or 'Master Jesus'. Never 'Lord Jesus'. Why is that? It is almost as if Eugene is trying to undermine the understanding the Christ is God. If he is, then scriptures are clear:

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist….
2Jn 1:9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

Scripture clearly shows that whoever believes not the doctrine that Christ is God, does not have God.

Salvation

Here is another grave concern. Let's look at how Eugene deals with Salvation and the gospel message.

The Bible Says....

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Eugene Peterson Says....

It's news I'm most proud to proclaim, this extraordinary Message of God's powerful plan to rescue everyone who trusts him, starting with Jews and then right on to everyone else!

The Bible Says....

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Eugene Peterson Says....

Joh 3:16 "This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life.
Joh 3:17 God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again.

Anyone can have a whole and lasting life?!?!

The actual words are 'have everlasting life'. The actual words mean that there is an eternity and we are going to be held accountable to and for our actions. Eugene renders the text as if the scriptures say, "Christ came so you can have an Abundant life". Friends, that is absolute heresy… plain and simple.

And to render the words, "the world through Him might be saved" as "came to help, to put the world right again." Is damnable heresy.

Now I ask you plainly.

Can we call a book a bible, if doesn't actually contain the 'true' Gospel? And therefore should a 'false' or 'watered down' gospel be preached by the church?
I'll let scripture answer.

1Th 2:4 But as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts.



http://www.bereanwatchmen.com/j.r.hall/using-the-message-in-your-message.html

susanb
June 15th, 2008, 11:04 PM
That's because some of us (like myself) didn't know just how wrong Peterson is. Now that I've read about the message and so forth, I get ill thinking about how I read it. Before I studied up on him, I didn't know who Eugene Peterson was and I was fooled into believing that I was reading an easier to comprehend version of the bible. I was really wanting to read my bible more and understand it more. Now I know better, but your comment still hurts a bit. I feel like I am being talked down to because I didn't know. :ohno

Sorry. :hug I didn't intend my comment to hurt anyone, I'm only wondering why a book authored by any man would be considered the Bible. The Message is a thought-for-thought paraphrase, not a translation. It's best not to read paraphrases at all. They are tainted to some degree by "culturally relevant" hogwash.

The Living Bible is another paraphrase that is doctrinally off. I had read it a few years ago in order to understand the details of Paul's missionary trips (book of Acts), but when I started reading Romans, the words were quite lame and mundane IMO. There wasn't any "umph" to it. I went back to the King James Version and made sure that any interpretation was backed up by other scripture, depending on the Holy Spirit to give me understanding.

KBKMNN
June 16th, 2008, 01:27 PM
Sorry. :hug I didn't intend my comment to hurt anyone, I'm only wondering why a book authored by any man would be considered the Bible. The Message is a thought-for-thought paraphrase, not a translation. It's best not to read paraphrases at all. They are tainted to some degree by "culturally relevant" hogwash.

The Living Bible is another paraphrase that is doctrinally off. I had read it a few years ago in order to understand the details of Paul's missionary trips (book of Acts), but when I started reading Romans, the words were quite lame and mundane IMO. There wasn't any "umph" to it. I went back to the King James Version and made sure that any interpretation was backed up by other scripture, depending on the Holy Spirit to give me understanding.


Ok. Sorry for being grumpy about it. :hat We were introduced to Peterson's 'bible' over 10 years ago by our pastor who used it sometimes. He was a good preacher and didn't preach anything that we thought was apostacy. Now some years later, I'm a little older and hopefully a little wiser. Now I stick with my Tim LaHaye KJV Prophecy Bible.

mnchicky
June 16th, 2008, 06:57 PM
Hello Everyone,

Here's a link to a good article exposing the Message:


The Message Bible: Mystic Mess Eugene Peterson's Bible The Message contains the most blatant New Age mysticism ever published in a Bible......

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/mess_bible.html

THANK YOU so much for providing this link!! We are dealing with serious issues in our church, some of what has to do with the Message, and I've done extensive research but couldn't concretely link The Mess by Peterson to New Age, which I firmly believed it to be.
This article articulates with precision AND backs it up with authors the direct links to new age garbage.
The Mess (age) is a Message all right...Mess-(of New)-Age...it is nothing short of propagating the new age lie to the church itself-and the church doesn't even know it!!
I highly recommend people to read that article. Its excellent, and thanks for providing it!!

FaithContender
June 16th, 2008, 08:54 PM
Haha back in 1995 when I was young 18yr old, I was working at a Campus Crusade for Christ conference hotel here in SoCal. Well, the bookstore carried "The Message". I requested a meeting with the director of the Center, and when we met I showed him the terrible and verging on blasphemous transliterations in that book, and a week later he pulled it from the conference center book store!:thumb

That book is such a deception of distorted words, that whenever I come across it, it literally makes me ill and my stomach knots up at how horribly that book has changed the Word of God. Also, it sounds like the author is speaking to 4 year olds, I don't know why any adult would even consider opening that bilge.

I have a friend on staff for CCC who says they are promoting Rob Bell and Henri Nouwen these days!!!:tsk:tsk:tsk

funmudder
June 20th, 2008, 07:44 AM
I have a friend on staff for CCC who says they are promoting Rob Bell and Henri Nouwen these days!!!:tsk:tsk:tsk

unfortunately I heard the same thing :(

ftwspursfan
June 20th, 2008, 07:10 PM
I had a parallel NIV/message Bible, but I just threw it in our recycling bin. I did not even want to sell it to a used bookstore cause I don't want anyone else reading that! I'm getting a NAS MacArthur Study Bible tomorrow!!! :thumb

Ironguild
June 20th, 2008, 08:40 PM
I have a friend on staff for CCC who says they are promoting Rob Bell and Henri Nouwen these days!!!:tsk:tsk:tsk

Wow, that is so unfortunate, however it doesn't surprise me. The reason I left working there, was because they started allowing conferences of "churches" there, that were reeeaalllyy bizarrely named. It was clear that they the "churches" they were allowing in were strange minglings of new age/christianity. I recall one of them was called "The church of the Universal Son", or some garbage like that, can't recall the exact name...Kinda felt like I was aiding the enemy in their false spiritual order, well with feeding them good hot food and cool refreshing beverages.
That place however will always hold a special place in my mind, it was where I got saved. I was interning in the reservations department for a high school work program, and I was not a believer. Well, they liked my work and they hired me on kitchen staff when I was 17, it was my first job.

The kitchen staff was chock full of solid, bible believing youth my age (17-23), and they were faithful in their duty to witness to me. I fought and battled the clear call of the Holy Spirit to salvation for about 6 months, but eventually as he always does, God was and always is triumphant, for He is the Sovereign King of all events and people.
I was in the Cafe area by myself after my shift, at about 8:30pm on August 25th, 1995, and I just couldn't run away anymore, I told the Lord "I can't run anymore, please take my heart and do with me as you will, I surrender to you Christ", and the immediate transformation was absolutely amazing, and I got saved 3 months after I turned 18!! I drove home, and dove into Genesis, started right at the beginning, and must have read for like 4 hours straight, the next day was so different from any other day in my life. Christ had saved me radically, I think back on that month or so with so much thankfulness.

I undertook a serious study of the word of God, I could not get enough, and another kid who was strongly into apologetics befriended me and began to teach me truth, and answer many of my questions, he has still remained my best friend after 13 years :thumb Anyway, about 8 months after I got saved, I had a good arsenal of understanding and study, and already was deeply offended at "The Message", that is when I met with the director at the time, and gave a good apologetic as to why he should pull The Message from the shelves.

Praise God, he is faithful to bring new believers a wealth of knowledge in his Word, even to go to battle!!

Lol, sorry I got a little longwinded friends, I just started reminiscing about The Redeemers conversion of my life, and started writing. Christ is so faithful, so faithful:faint

I had a parallel NIV/message Bible, but I just threw it in our recycling bin. I did not even want to sell it to a used bookstore cause I don't want anyone else reading that! I'm getting a NAS MacArthur Study Bible tomorrow!!! :thumb

Good call, I know many people who would have a big problem with throwing out a "bible", or any book for that matter...However the way I look at it, if that 1 more book stayed in circulation, it could surely decieve many people as to what the Word of God truly is.

funmudder
June 23rd, 2008, 10:36 PM
LuvsLlamas (I love em too!)

I'm glad that you were reached by the Lord, He is amazing :nod :yeah

You are not bursting my bubble, or anyone else's......I'm not interested in elation from finding heresy:idunno As fantastic as it is that you were led, you were also led AWAY to study Gods word from a real source, not the heretical one we are talking about here.

The main point we are getting to is(I'll repeat the end of the article):
The Bible Says....

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Eugene Peterson's Message Says....

Jonh 3:16 "This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life.
Jonh 3:17 God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again.

Anyone can have a whole and lasting life?!?!

The actual words are 'have everlasting life'. The actual words mean that there is an eternity and we are going to be held accountable to and for our actions. Eugene renders the text as if the scriptures say, "Christ came so you can have an Abundant life". Friends, that is absolute heresy… plain and simple.

And to render the words, "the world through Him might be saved" as "came to help, to put the world right again." Is damnable heresy.

Now I ask you plainly:

Can we call a book a bible, if doesn't actually contain the 'true' Gospel? And therefore should a 'false' or 'watered down' gospel be preached by the church?

I'll let scripture answer.

1Th 2:4 But as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts.

And let us not forget these very sobering words QUITE applicable to this book:
Rev 22:18-19 ¶ For I testify unto every man that hear the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

I know I for one do not want to be handing out or defending a book that has done these very things :fear

Sing4Him
June 24th, 2008, 12:07 AM
:thumb:thumb