Sticker shock at grocery store

[Barachem]

I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that Americans have had access to cheap fuel for many years. Also, we live in a very materialistic society (don't know how much compared to Europe) and Americans are constantly being urged to buy more things, many of which are nice to have but not necessary to live. Now rapidly rising fuel and food costs are going to force many of us to lower our standard of living.

I do think that is one of the reasons, but not sure about it.

Barachem, I don't know how the Dutch society works.

Well, i only have limited insight, even though i have lived here for 20 years now.

Does your government provide things like health care and prescription medications at low or no cost?

Does the Dutch government offer free healthcare?

Let me state that i'll be using a conversion of € 1,- being $ 1,50.

To some part, but we have to pay at least € 90,- [$ 135,-] a month for healthcare and that's just the basic package which is mandatory and only covers basics and you still have to pay about € 200,- on services/medicines before you receive refunding.



Are you paying for things like health insurance, car insurance, house insurance, property insurance?

Most people have to pay insurance for those things they do possess, i only have to pay health insurance.
So, yes to all.

Do you live in a location where the government is providing things like public transportation at low or no cost (busses, subways, trams, trains, etc)?

I think public transport is as expensive here as it is in the U.S.
Privatization made things worse.

What about the cost of your housing (which because of the recent housing bubble has gone up exponentially here and is not really coming down with the burst bubble)?

Most houses here are quite expensive and expect to pay at least € 400,- [$ 600,-] for an apartment without subsidies in rent.

In order to compare apples to apples and to explain the difficulties here, I think we need to know those things.

The thing is, our gasoline is expensive, it's at least € 1.50 [$ 2.25] per Liter, which is $ 8.50 per gallon.
That's about twice as expensive as you people in the U.S. pay and even corrected for currency it's still 30% more than you pay.

Our taxes are also higher, because the Netherlands is more of a socialist country than the U.S., yet because of that its citizens benefit more, so in the end all should be somewhat balanced and similar situations should be there.
But they're not.
So there has to be one or more symmetry breakers.
I thinks the size of the U.S. is a factor, as is a possible higher consumerism.
Still i'm baffled and i do feel for you people.

[Amanda's mom]

To some part, but we have to pay at least €90,- [$ 135,-] a month for healthcare and that's just the basic package which is mandatory and only covers basics and you still have to pay about € 200,- on services/medicines before you receive refunding.

I pay $146/month for basic health insurance. Everytime that any of us go to the doctor, I have a $20 copay. Most of my medications are considered "third tier" which is the most expensive. I pay $40 per prescription per month. Since I am on two inhalers, prescription allergy medication, hypothyroid medication, and hormone replacement therapy, my monthly prescription bill is well over $180. My husband is on at least 4 third tier prescriptions so at $40 each that adds another $120 each month add another $50 for his monthly over the counter scripts (some of his prescription medication was down-graded to over-the-counter so now insurance doesn't pay). My daughter is on prescription allergy medications as well and her's is $10 each month. So far, just for health insurance and prescription medication I am paying $456. We do not get reimbursed for any over-the-counter medications that we need so the ibuprofen that I have to take for my arthritis and to handle the pain from the injuries sustained in an assault is on me. My other daughter is taking over-the-counter medications. Considering that I am on a fixed income, that's really high.

I think public transport is as expensive here as it is in the U.S. Privatization made things worse.
It's not even available in my area.


Most houses here are quite expensive and expect to pay at least € 400,- [$ 600,-] for an apartment without subsidies in rent.
$600 is cheap for an apartment. I have heard that low-end mortgage payments here are over $1000/month. I know people who are struggling with payments over $3000/month.

I did a quick check of apartment costs in the Baltimore County area, the cheapes apartment I found that would be close to public transportation like the Light Rail or close to the industrial parks so one could walk to work were $900+. If you wanted a 2 or 3 bedroom, it was closer to $2000/month.

In addition to the actual house payment or rent payment there are the utility costs. We keep our house fairly cold in winter (below 68 during the day and 63 or lower at night) and really hot in summer (whatever ambient is) and still for two months this winter the gas bill alone was close to $800. The electric bill was close to $200. Now add in grocery costs...I think you get the picture. I just opened our June gas bill (just for natural gas) and it was $200. Our water bill is high, too, but that comes once a quarter.


The thing is, our gasoline is expensive, it's at least € 1.50 [$ 2.25] per Liter, which is $ 8.50 per gallon.
That's about twice as expensive as you people in the U.S. pay and even corrected for currency it's still 30% more than you pay.
You have us on that one but we're quickly catching up.

Our taxes are also higher, because the Netherlands is more of a socialist country than the U.S., yet because of that its citizens benefit more, so in the end all should be somewhat balanced and similar situations should be there.

But they're not.

So there has to be one or more symmetry breakers.
I thinks the size of the U.S. is a factor, as is a possible higher consumerism.
Still i'm baffled and i do feel for you people.

Depending on which state you live in here, taxes may be low (like in Florida where there is not state income tax) or high (like in New York where I think they'd tax the air that we breath if they could get away with it). Federal taxes came down for me when GW Bush got his tax reforms through but the democrats are saying they will drop the reforms and raise taxes again. The US is heading toward a socialist state.

[sophie]

$7.99/lb today for heard salami:faint!!!

[Jubilee21]

I was "pondering" some of the differences between other countries myself..a few variables that have the US at a disadvantage is a minimum wage structure that is pretty far behind the actual inflation curve here...

As large as our country is..I believe it was ranked at one point second when it came to the largest percentage of poverty levels for an Industrailized nation..that 17% of of the working folks here are at poverty level albeit working full-time simply because of wages paid being insufficient to actually cover all the bases of just bare neccessities..

Say someone made $10.00/hr ( above minimum wage considerably) That would be around $20,800.00 of Gross salary and about $1300/mo after taxes and before anything else for a single adult.

Here in America, the median income is about $74,000.00 Gross annually, that would work out to about $4.300.00/mo net income..but his figure is deceiving because it does not represent "half the population"

Here, over 75% of the population makes under $75,000.00 per year..and when that gets broken down..17% of the folks make $21,000.00/year or lower. The rest make about $21,000.00 to $52,000.00 Gross income

so 17% net about $1300/month , or lower

and, 20% net about $4,300.00/mo...

More than half of that 75% of the US population make between an 'average' of $2.800.00/mo net monthly income or lower..

So here more than half of the population falls into that range of earners..and if the statistics are right, over most of these folks are families with children, either married or single head of households with about 4 members/household

In most cases, both parents are working or one single adult is supporting the children..

So here there would be day care costs, there are mandated insurances, licence fees, health care costs and insurances..in some cases educational expenses prior to college ones for many families, etc..there are taxes on so many things above and beyond what is taken out of the paycheck as well - property taxes, school taxes, occupational and others, food taxes, clothing taxes.etc...

A single adult with an average net monthly income of $2,800/month or just two married adults opposed to a family of four or more would have a very different set of circumstnaces regarding their costs obviously.

And when its broken down even more, it would show that over 1/3 of the population and put into households live well below $2.800.00/month and even have health care insurance at all..half of them live on $2,000.00/month or less

So when rent or a home payment is above $700/month or more..which is about what iis the cheapest payment anyone can find for a place to live..it matters greatly to 1/3 of the US population who are living on under $2.000.00a month of net income..

before all the other factors are added in..regarless if you are a single adult making over $35.000.00 or a family of 4 living on $55.000.00...

More than half the monthly income is dedicated to the house payment and utilities alone..before health care, insurances, other taxes, car payments, and eventually food, clothing and the rest..

Say someone has 1200 sq ft of home to heat with oil ..the average heating costs last year would have been half what they will be this year..and that represents about $100.00 a month more this winter..minimum

Between gas for the cars, food rises..and heating..most of these households are looking at a minimum of $400.00/month income that is now "gone" out of their working budgets of under $2100/mo net monthly income.

They would require a full time minimum hour wage job above what they are earning to "break even"..

Yet when it comes to public assistance..the minimum wage rate determines "poverty status"..and eligibility...so if you make over $6.00 an hour, there is little or no assistance available for an individual or two married adults with children.

Gas, food, and heat cost the same for someone who makes below $20,000 a year as it does for someone who makes $75.000.00 year..and in the cases of two working parents/adults..their gas an car expenses are doubled in order for both to work...

There were not enough jobs here in the US that offered salaries to keep up with this mess before it started, and its not going to get prettier as it unfolds..

most occupations and the salaries of these folks rely upon folks spending money , aka "consumerism" which obviously most and more than half our population can't be doing when they are looking at whats happened here in the last 12 mos.

Companies can not afford to keep up with their operating expenses and 'salaries', so they are cutting back on jobs and trimming out the higher salaries first..along with the benefits..so more folks who were getting by because two incomes kept them abouve that $75.000.00 thresh hold are now in trouble too..

When folks look at our CPI and other sources of information, they see numbers and figures that leave out a lot of details that confuses them about why the US is having so many problems if I were to venture a guess..

The way our lives are arranged in terms of options with public transportation, commuting, etc. are big issues..how much income goes into schools, law enforcement, etc is relative to the type and size community one lives in..

Heck, most of the US is very confused when they look at all this too..
The notion of trying to put the US under a socialized system of anything is just not going to work

l believe 3% of the incomes in this country are above $200,000/ year and less than 1% are in the high end of wealth...

Thats why I roll my eyes when folks talk about oil getting to $500.00 a barrel..which would translate into around $350.00 for a fill up of an 18 gallon tank..

Anything over $150.00 is all it will take to devestate out that portion of our population that makes under $55,000/ yr.( household )here in a matter of 12 mos ...especially if they are both working and have children in their homes.

Hope this helps explain more..it not just the size of the problem but the size of the the number of people it affects with regard to how the households are set up and and whats left to go around to try to fix it after it has IMHO..

Most folks would not assume that more than half the US households operate on Gross incomes that are below $55,000.00, they see the $75.000.00 median income number and don't understand that is averaged out the top 1-3% of incomes in this Nation..:rolleyes

[RDY4HIM]

I planned to make spaghetti tonight for dinner and stopped at the store for ground beef...$22 for a package large enough to make 2 meals for my family. I used frozen turkey meatballs that we had in the freezer instead. :)

One thing that is hitting us really hard right now is not only gas and groceries, but we're getting notices from auto insurance, home owners, house payment, utility companies...ALL of our monthly bills are going up $20-50. We'll have about $200 or more a month going out, but no raise in salary on the horizon until next April. I trust in the Lord to provide, and I think we've cut every corner possible, but how exactly do we budget for this 'new economy' when our wages simply aren't keeping up with the increased cost of living???

[RebMel]

I planned to make spaghetti tonight for dinner and stopped at the store for ground beef...$22 for a package large enough to make 2 meals for my family.

:panic Good Grief -- How large is your family?

We're seeing another trend when it comes to utility bills: shut off notices.

We live in Pennsylvania, and in our state the utilities aren't allowed to shut you off for non-payment during the winter months. Spring, summer and fall, however, you are fair game. Which is reasonable, you should pay your bills. However, I've noticed that the time between being late and the shut off notice coming has been shortened considerably. Used to be you could be two months late before getting a shut off notice, now as little as fifteen days past the due date and wham! there it is.

We run late on everything, I'll admit it (four teenagers in the house -- just the grocery bill kills us), but I try to keep everything within thirty days (doesn't show up as late on your credit report then), but with these shut off notices coming so soon, I had to shuffle up the gas bill to the top to keep it from going off, and that's going to make us over 30 days on the mortgage this month. It's like a domino effect, because now the mortgage company is going to be screaming and we'll have to move them up in line which will make the auto payment over 30... which will have them screaming. . .

It's like the gas company 'cut' in line and it is fouling me up terribly. But the point I'm trying to make (however badly) is that everyone is suddenly just being ruthless about getting their money... now!

[Tammy]

One thing that is hitting us really hard right now is not only gas and groceries, but we're getting notices from auto insurance, home owners, house payment, utility companies...ALL of our monthly bills are going up $20-50. We'll have about $200 or more a month going out, but no raise in salary on the horizon until next April. I trust in the Lord to provide, and I think we've cut every corner possible, but how exactly do we budget for this 'new economy' when our wages simply aren't keeping up with the increased cost of living???[/QUOTE]


This is what I have notice last month when I paid the bills all most all my bills went up. Some of them had gone up the last time I paid them and again this time. I think that it has been 3 years since my DH had a wage increase. So far we are paying without to much troubles but this winter oil will hit us hard. I have been trying to put extra back for the oil now but all the other bills are eating that up.

[Tammy]

RebMel Just wanted to say hi we are also from Pa. I have two teenagers and a soon to be 9 year old living at home. The thing that has really helped me with food is using coupons. Most of the things that I have put back in my stockpile I got for free or paid very little for. I started this in Oct. and I spend less now on food then I did before. I think the best I have every done on food at Giant was 192.00 and I paid 92.00. I do even better at CVS. My totals can come to around 200.00 and I pay around 30.00. Just something to think about.

[Barachem]

@ Amanda's mom & Jubilee21: Sad to see that your house market is so expensive.
I thought we had it hard in the NL, but you in the USA have much more hardship with housing.
I'm amazed that your housing is so expensive, is building a house so expensive?
I'm at a loss of words to say, you have it so hard while there is no good reason for it to be so hard.
I think the backs of the populace are being used to found the North American Union on and it's gonna cost you people quite much.

The US citizens still have a chance to bring things back to how it's supposed to be.
Just for form a vigilante army of several millions, march to Washington and bring down the current government.
You still have enough weapons for that.

But i understand that profetically and realistically speaking that won't happen.
People are to focused on their own lives to see the greater picture and a NWO has to come before Jesus kills it and it's leader, the antichrist, off.
God have mercy on all of us, whether US citizen or not.

[Amanda's mom]

@ Amanda's mom & Jubilee21: Sad to see that your house market is so expensive.
I thought we had it hard in the NL, but you in the USA have much more hardship with housing.

It's all part of the housing bubble that we had here. People were being offered subprime mortgages (ARMs) and they didn't understand the actual consequences or that they really couldn't afford them in the long run. With all the available mortgage money, house prices soared and construction prices soared. I know my sister's house value more than doubled in two years because of the bubble. Apartment owners saw the chance to cash in on the bubble and raised the cost of renting. It comes down to greed. Unfortunately, salaries, when adjusted for inflation, have not kept up with the cost of living.

I'm amazed that your housing is so expensive, is building a house so expensive?

We are trying to gather funds to build on a piece of land we purchased closer to family (300 miles closer). We can buy a basic kit (outside walls and connection system, base flooring system, stairways, inside walls, windows, and doors) for a 1000 square foot SIPS house for $21,190 plus taxes and shipping (so, around $30,000 US). We then have to find someone to build the foundation (another $20,000) and assemble the SIPS kit. Then we have to add the HVAC system, plumbing, all fixtures, and finishes (probably another $20,000 if we do that work ourselves). Our property already has the well dug (~ $10,000 value) and a septic system (~ $15,000) in place. I think this gives you an idea of what a very basic home costs to build here. A stick-built home would be even more expensive and less energy efficient.


I'm at a loss of words to say, you have it so hard while there is no good reason for it to be so hard.

People got greedy.


I think the backs of the populace are being used to found the North American Union on and it's gonna cost you people quite much.

Agree.

The US citizens still have a chance to bring things back to how it's supposed to be.
Just for form a vigilante army of several millions, march to Washington and bring down the current government.
You still have enough weapons for that.

:aha Okay, as background, my husband and I were into rehabbing our residences (we started out with a 1920s home that we restored and then moved to our current home which was built in 1850 and started to restore it before he fell ill and I was injured in an assault). We have learned that the difficulty of ANY project increases by a factor of 10 for each "JUST" that is in a sentence. As for forming an army to take back our country, there was a time when people in this country would band together and work to support the constitution. From the time that the SCOTUS kicked God out of our schools, we have lost that at an alarming rate. Look at what Barak Obama has to say about us...we cling to our Bibles and our guns in fear. The 'elite' here have managed to take over because us "Bible loving gun totting" people are actually quite peaceful and have rolled over on our backs to be walked all over by the mad liberals who seek to blame our country for all the evils of the world. There will be no rebellion. There will be no uprising. The evil has already won, the majority just don't realize it yet.

But i understand that profetically and realistically speaking that won't happen.
People are to focused on their own lives to see the greater picture and a NWO has to come before Jesus kills it and it's leader, the antichrist, off.
God have mercy on all of us, whether US citizen or not.

Our only hope is God, and I suspect He's not too happy with the US right now. I pray for the rapture each day and certainly hope that God will take us to our true home before the US falls completely.