A Calvary Chapel not using Beth Moore [Archive] - Page 6

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Sing4Him

July 27th, 2008, 09:42 PM

What a shame Beth Moore endorses Contemplative Spirituality-- unscriptural prayer practices and has also advocated apostate teacher, Richard Foster's Be Still DVD.

Now.. I have done Beth Moore also. She is a sweet woman. It is a SHAME that she has decided to venture into false teaching.

Does this make an attack on BETH? NOOOO.. This is on what Beth is teaching, promoting..

It is unscriptural! So.. instead of stating the bashing here is on People, how 'bout showing us where Contemplative Spirituality IS Scriptural??

Did you take time to read the article on Beth's "Tent of Meeting"?

No man/woman is infallible.

It's the Bible, the BIble, the Bible.

Being scripturally sound and Contemplative do not mix. Period.:tsk:tsk

funmudder

July 28th, 2008, 11:20 AM

Architectlink

July 28th, 2008, 09:51 PM

I went to a Beth Moore conference early in May. She told us that God laid on her heart the message she was to give a couple of weeks prior. She hadn't been to this particular venue for about 4 years, and she remembered specifically the message she gave then. We weren't shouting out things to be answered, and in all, the conference was very well put together. It was cohesive and flowed well. I felt the teaching we received was annointed.

I've read a number of things about Beth Moore, and the contemplative prayer thing has me concerned. However, that was not talked about at all. There was only teaching straight from the Bible.

ditto.

I think Beth has been responsible for leading MILLIONS of women to Christ who would otherwise not hear the word at their churches. I have never heard her do this contemplative prayer thing, and whenever I have heard her speak, she was WELL prepared in advance, and went from notes. She has the gift of teaching straight from the bible.

The only thing I wonder about is how long it is going to take being on Robinsons TV show before it pulls her off of straight bible teaching...wonder if this has anything to do with recent departures...

Sing4Him

July 28th, 2008, 10:46 PM

God's Word does not return void.

Thinking Beth Moore is a great teacher and nice person is different that showing that she has gotten into false doctrine which is in the form of:

Contemplative Spirituality.

Have any of you looked into this situation? I know many have done her Bible Studies, but those who do not look at this particular teaching and promotion BY Beth Moore are turning a blind eye.

We are told to be Bereans to to contend for the faith.

If someone is pointing out false teaching and one does not open God's word and check for scripture truths, one can't claim the teacher is o.k

Be Still and Know you are being Deceived
by Brian Flynn

There is nothing more devious than a lie told with subtlety. Last week, I purchased the Be Still and Know That I am God DVD produced by 20th Century Fox. The cover boasts of such contemplatives as Richard Foster, Dallas Willard, Calvin Miller and Priscilla Shirer, along with some names that may surprise you—Max Lucado, Beth Moore. An acknowledgement list at the end includes Brennan Manning and Dr. Charles Stanley.

The advertisement for the video states:

Eight hundred people gathered at Mariner's church in Newport Beach, California for this amazing event that was broadcast live to over 2000 churches nationwide. Richard Foster and Dallas Willard kicked off the evening with an introduction and dialogue on the history of Contemplative Prayer. Priscilla Shirer shared passionately about the vital need to spend time listening to God and Dr. Henry Cloud challenged everyone with practical steps to help incorporate this type of prayer into busy, everyday life. Kendall Payne's soulful ‘Be Thou My Vision’ set apart the close of the evening with Richard Foster leading the group in a time of silent, listening prayer based on a scripture reading from Luke. As one woman shared afterward, ‘I loved learning about this new kind of prayer that is actually so old from so many different views. There really was something for everyone...’

I tried to watch this DVD as if I were a person that knew little about contemplative prayer but had a fair knowledge of Scripture. By the advertisement, I am told that I’m going to be introduced to a new and different way to pray. The video begins by telling me that we all live in a frenzied chaotic world and that Christians are not immune to it. It suggests that we need to spend more time in prayer. Gosh! What a revelation! I spent $15.98 to be told that?

Richard Foster, author of Celebration of Discipline, begins by describing contemplative prayer this way: “Contemplative prayer is ‘listening prayer.’ It is attentiveness … It is being ‘all ears’ to what the Father has to say to us.”

The DVD shows people reading their Bibles, while similar descriptions progress. Okay, so I am to listen to God while reading the Bible? I do that already. God informs me through His word. What’s new about that? As I am watching this, I am wondering, “Did Fox put all this money into this project just to tell people to read their Bibles and think about what they have read?

The narrator suggests finding some quiet time to be alone. Certainly all of us need that, but I already have my morning devotional. Perhaps many Christians don’t do this and this DVD is a reminder.

The film describes contemplative prayer in many ways. Spending time in God’s word and contemplating its meaning. I already do that. Get away from the world and all the noise and distractions by finding a quiet place to pray. That’s nothing new. Meditating on a phrase from the Bible that has meaning to me. I do that often. However, they are suggesting a unique specific prayer. They could have called it the spend-time-contemplating-in-a-quiet-place-prayer. Perhaps they decided that name was too long and called it contemplative prayer.

Priscilla Shirer, author of He Speaks to Me, Preparing to Hear the Voice of God, shares her views. She states,

Most of my prayer time is filled up with what I am saying to Him as opposed to just being quiet, actually giving Him an opportunity to speak to me…. It never occurred to me that I needed to consciously go into his presence with my mouth closed giving him an opportunity to get a word in edgewise.

Does she mean that God starts talking in my mind during the time of prayer? Now this is confusing to me. The premise of the Be Still DVD is suggesting that we need to spend more time alone in solitude to read the Bible, but then the meaning is switched to now mean silencing, or stilling, one’s thoughts. Which silent solitude do they mean? Finding quiet time or finding quiet time to quiet and still the mind?

I was curious as to why Beth Moore had been a part of this production. Although I am not greatly familiar with her work, I have been told by many that she is well thought of within the Christian community, and she has created reputable Bible study programs. When she was questioned as to her participation in Be Still that promotes a mystical prayer movement she initially released a statement distancing herself from the project. What has really sparked my curiosity is what is she distancing herself from? After all, she seems to be the most quoted person in the film. If this practice is a biblical one, why has she denounced this project? Does she too see a problem with contemplative prayer? *

The phrase contemplative prayer sounds like a suggestion that we are to contemplate God’s word or contemplate its meaning by thinking. However, that is not its real meaning or how it is practiced.

Those on the DVD who promote the silence teach that this state of mind is reached through a repetitive practice (i.e., a mantra). Listed in the acknowledgements of Be Still is Brannon Manning. He describes the method in his book Signature of Jesus this way,

…the first step in faith is to stop thinking about God at the time of prayer.

The second step, ”without moving your lips, repeat the sacred word [or phrase] inwardly, slowly, and often.”

The third step concerns what to do when inevitable distractions come. The answer is to simply return to listening to your sacred word. Gently return your mind to your sacred word.

This is the only way that one can truly silence the mind. It is like putting the mind in neutral. Without repetition your own thoughts simply get in the way. We are beings that simply cannot shut off our thoughts, but you can through repetition, by going into an altered state. Hindus have practiced this type of meditation for centuries.

During this practice, contemplatives believe that you can hear God speaking in your mind. This is not a biblical practice. God has spoken to many individuals throughout the Bible but never by a meditative practice initiated by man. It is a dangerous practice and the results are detrimental.

Richard Foster admits to this danger in his book Prayer: Finding the Heart's True Home.

I also want to give a word of precaution. In the silent contemplation of God we are entering deeply into the spiritual realm, and there is such a thing as a supernatural guidance…. While the Bible does not give us a lot of information on that, there are various orders of spiritual beings, and some of them are definitely not in cooperation with God and his way! … But for now I want to encourage you to learn and practice prayers of protection.

Foster also states: “At the outset I need to give a word of warning, a little like the warning labels on medicine bottles. Contemplative prayer is not for the novice. I do not say this about any other form of prayer…” Sadly, this warning label is not listed on the DVD.

Foster describes the method of contemplative prayer quite differently in the Be Still film. It is a rather watered-down version of Lectio Divina. He instructs the listener to read a page of scripture several times looking for the important passages. He then reads it again focusing on one passage that he feels is relevant to him at that moment in his life. If that was all there was to contemplative prayer, I would not have written a book condemning it. I propose to you that Mr. Foster is not being upfront and honest in the DVD.

Max Lucado, also in the film, states there are two ways to read the Bible—for inspiration and for information. Certainly the Bible inspires me but it is by its information. Throughout this film, there is an underlying theme that the Bible is to be used, not just as a resource for knowledge, but rather as a mystical device. So in essence, the Bible is being recommended as a tool to practice our meditation techniques!

In later sections of the DVD under Cloud of Witnesses, Foster praises the early mystics such as Madame Guyon, but how does she describe reading the Bible? From Foster’s book Devotional Classics, Madame Guyon states:

[M]ake use of scripture to quiet your mind. First read a passage of scripture. Once you sense the Lord’s presence, the content of what you read is no longer important. The scripture has served its purpose; it has quieted your mind; it has brought you to him. …You should always remember that you are not there to gain an understanding of what you have read; rather you are reading to turn your mind from the outward things to the deep parts of your being. You are not there to learn or to read, but you are there to experience the presence of your Lord!

The Lord is already present! He is sitting at the right hand of the Father. I already have the assurance through his word without “practicing the presence.”

"This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." (Hebrews 6:19-21)

In truth, those supporting the practice of contemplative prayer are demonstrating a tragic failure of faith. Is Christ’s finished work on the Cross not enough for them, and are they not now sharing their doubt with all of us?

Although there are demonstrations of honest love for God from some of the individuals in this DVD, there is too much misleading information that will take listeners from knowing the word of God to an inward journey of deception waiting for God to speak to them in their minds. In fact, their use of the title Be Still and Know That I Am God, demonstrates their lack of biblical knowledge.

There are two commands in this verse:

1. BE STILL (don’t worry or panic) and

2. KNOW THAT I AM GOD (a recognition of God’s sovereignty).

The Achilles heal of contemplative prayer has always been its lack of biblical support. The choice is clear, we either come to God on his terms or any way man sees fit. Coming to God through a practice taught by mystics during the Dark Ages which they borrowed from eastern religions is not coming to God on His terms.

I left the New Age to escape practices like these, because I knew they lead to deception. I am not going to stand by and watch while my brothers and sisters in Christ fall into the same trap. The participants in this DVD are in scriptural error and must be confronted. No matter how much these modern day mystics try to attain the silence they will never receive silence from me.

* (Ms. Moore later retracted this initial statement and now fully endorses the DVD)
http://www.onetruthministries.com/BeStill.htm

WHY would Beth Moore condone this DVD and even after she was confronted about this??

Sing4Him

July 28th, 2008, 10:53 PM

Here is a GREAT DVD I would highly recommend listening to that explains the errors of this mystical "Tent of Meeting" that Beth Moore proclaims:

DVD: Mystical Tents of Meeting or the Objective Tent of Meeting
http://www.cicstore.org/servlet/the-49/Beth-Moore,-contemplative-prayer/Detail

Beth Moore’s Illicit Tent of Meeting

By Bob DeWaay

Recently, on Ingrid Schlueter’s Web site Beth Moore denies that she promotes approaches to prayer that have Eastern overtones.* The issue arose from her participation on the Be Still DVD which has been critiqued on this site by Ingrid and then Brian Flynn. Brian and I viewed a segment of Beth Moore on that DVD. We found disconcerting her poor understanding of Exodus 33:7-11, the passage she uses as her proof text. In her discussion of Moses’ tent of meeting she proposes that each believer can have their own tent of meeting where they can go to have two way conversations with God.

Commenting on Exodus 33:7-11, Moore states: “It says all of them could have approached, but as Moses approached they would stand back and watch.” Then she implies that people are just standing back when they could have their own tent of meeting with God. Then she claims:

“The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend.” That is part of contemplative prayer. When we sit back and realize that it is not just that we have something to say to God, it’s that God has something He has to say to us . . . I want to be in that tent of meeting.

Every believer, according to Moore, can have a private non-literal tent of meeting in which God will come and speak to him or her.

This claim introduces serious theological problems. Let us first examine the claim that it was God’s intention that every Israelite enter the tent of meeting. This is simply false. Moses was uniquely the mediator of the Old Covenant. God chose to speak His authoritative words to Moses alone. God said that it was good that only Moses heard God’s voice: “This is according to all that you asked of the Lord your God in Horeb on the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, let me not see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’ And the Lord said to me, ‘They have spoken well’” (Deut. 18:16, 17).

In context Deuteronomy 18 was about prohibiting divination. God spoke to them through Moses and promised to send a future prophet like Moses; and when God sent that prophet, they should listen to Him (that prophet was Jesus; see Deut. 18:9-19; other passages in the New Testament claim Jesus was the one Moses predicted). Several Old Testament passages show that God spoke to Moses alone directly (Deut. 5:30, 31; Exo. 19:21-23; Exo. 20:19-21; Deut. 34:10).

When Moses’ unique role was challenged some very bad things happened to the challengers. In Numbers 12, Miriam and Aaron said this: “Has the Lord indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us as well And the Lord heard it” (Num. 12:2). God called them out to the tent of meeting, and the cloud came down to the doorway of the tent. The result was, after God spoke about Moses’ unique role, Miriam was leprous (see Num. 12:2-10). In Leviticus 10, Nadab and Abihu tried to do things their own way and they died. In Numbers 16, Korah started a protest movement that denied Moses’ unique role and all who participated and their families dropped directly into Sheol (Num. 16:1-33). For good reason the people stayed at their own tents when Moses entered the tent of meeting—they did not want to die! Moore’s claim that God wanted them all to enter and receive personal revelations from God is false.

The New Testament makes it clear there is only one legitimate tent of meeting: Christ. Jesus, Peter, James and John ascended a mount in Mark 9; and Jesus was transfigured. During this event, Moses and Elijah appeared and were talking to Jesus. Here, three people who were God’s authoritative spokespersons, stood on one mount. So Peter determined that they should build three tabernacles (tents of meeting). Why? So they would have three places they could go to enquire of the Lord. But what happened? “Then a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a voice came out of the cloud, ‘This My beloved Son, listen to Him!’ And all at once they looked around and saw no one with them anymore, except Jesus alone” (Mark 9:4b, 5). The phrase “listen to Him” alludes to Deuteronomy 18 and shows that Jesus is the prophet Moses predicted. God provides but one tent of meeting—Jesus Himself. And that tent would not remain pitched on earth (John 1:14 says Jesus “tabernacled” among us).

The book of Hebrews elaborates on this. God has spoken through Jesus Christ in full and final revelation (Heb. 1:1, 2; Heb. 2:1-3 tells us that His apostles gave us Jesus’ authoritative words). Jesus is our High Priest who passed through the heavens and sits at the right hand of God where He carries out His mediatorial role. Hebrews 8:1, 2 claims that the true tabernacle is in heaven and was pitched by God, not man. This claim is repeated in Hebrews 9:11, 12. The entire book of Hebrews is about Christ’s unique role and warnings against apostasy for those who think they can come to God by some way other than Christ (in their case going back to the temple in Jerusalem and the earthly high priest and the blood of animals).

Hebrews also tells us the only way to draw near to God: through Christ who is in heaven and can only be seen by faith (Heb. 10:22; Heb. 11:1). All believers have the privilege of access to the throne of grace (Heb. 4:16). But there they find help in their time of need—not new, personal revelations.

The New Testament promises that if we come to God on His terms through Christ in prayer, He will listen. It does not promise us our own new words from God. The contemplative prayer movement wants what God is not offering: a way to feel closer to God and gain personal revelations. God has offered His Son so that we may draw near to God, not feel near to God. Many who are on the road to Hell feel near to God. Many who are truly saved sometimes do not feel near to God. There is nothing in Hebrews that promises we will feel near to God. To draw near is to come to God through faith in Christ and His once for all shed blood, and abide by faith in the terms of the covenant. To draw near is to have access to the throne of grace in prayer.

Beth Moore teaches error on the Be Still DVD. She claims that in the Old Testament God wanted each person to enter the Tent of Meeting; this is false. The tent of meeting that Moses entered was a precursor to the Tabernacle. Only the high priest on the Day of Atonement could enter the holy place in God’s presence and even he could do so only under the terms God revealed to Moses. Moore claims that we can each have a tent of meeting; this is false. There is one tent of meeting, it is Jesus Christ who entered the heavenly tabernacle and sits at the right hand of God.

God commanded us to listen to Him, not to seek new information from God that He has not already spoken through Christ and His apostles. Moore wants to distance herself from mysticism, but her own words dangerously mislead people. Rather than pointing people to illicit tents of meeting not ordained by God, she should have pointed them to Jesus, the mediator of the New Covenant, the blood atonement, and the throne of grace. Being dissatisfied with what God has provided is very dangerous, as certain individuals in the Old Testament discovered for themselves

*Note: Since Beth Moore's initial statement she has changed her mind again and now fully endorses the Be Still DVD.