Third coming?

[tekton]

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

It seems pretty evident that between John 20:17 and John 20:27 that Jesus ascended to the Father and returned. So should what we commonly refer to as the second coming actually be termed the third coming? :idunno

[BlessedinHim]

wow, interesting thought there. We may not know until He comes back.

[TheWorkman]

"ἅπτομαι" which is translated "touch" in the KJV is translated "cling to" in other versions.

Christ was saying "Don't cling to me" because He still had to ascend to the Father.

Christ still had not ascended in John 20:27.

[tekton]

ASV Joh 20:17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.

DT Joh 20:17 Jesus says to her, Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and [to] my God and your God.

YLT Joh 20:17 Jesus saith to her, `Be not touching me, for I have not yet ascended unto my Father; and be going on to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.'


It's translated "touch" in these versions also. I noticed that it's in the modern translations that the word is translated as "hold" or "cling to". Either way whether Mary embraced Him with a "hug" or just a "touch of the hand" physical contact is whats being forbidden is it not?

[tekton]

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:



Joh 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:20 And when he had so said, he showed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

:scripture :scratch

[TheWorkman]

ASV Joh 20:17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.

DT Joh 20:17 Jesus says to her, Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and [to] my God and your God.

YLT Joh 20:17 Jesus saith to her, `Be not touching me, for I have not yet ascended unto my Father; and be going on to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and to your God.'


It's translated "touch" in these versions also. I noticed that it's in the modern translations that the word is translated as "hold" or "cling to". Either way whether Mary embraced Him with a "hug" or just a "touch of the hand" physical contact is whats being forbidden is it not?

I read this in the Believers Bible Commentary.

John 20:16 Mary now heard a familiar voice calling her by name. There was no mistaking the fact-it was Jesus! She called Him Rabboni, which means "my Great Teacher." Actually, she was still thinking of Him as the Great Teacher she had known. She did not realize that He was now more than her Teacher-He was her Lord and Savior. So the Lord prepared to explain to her the newer and fuller way in which she would hereafter know Him.

20:17 Mary had known Jesus personally as a Man. She had seen miracles happen when He was bodily present. So she concluded that if He was not with her in a visible way, then she could have no hope of blessing. The Lord must correct her thinking. He said, "Do not cling to Me simply as a Man in the flesh. I have not yet ascended to My father. When I do return to heaven, the Holy Spirit will be sent down to the earth. When He comes, He will reveal Me to your heart in a way you have never known Me before. I will be nearer and dearer to you than was possible during My life here. "



I personally don't think that the act of a physical touch had any thing to do with it.

[tekton]

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Joh 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
Joh 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Joh 20:20 And when he had so said, he showed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

:scripture :scratch

:feedback
Ok, Eph 4:8 says "When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Act 2:38 and Act 10:45 say the Holy Ghost is a gift. Joh 20:22 says "he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:".
If gifts were given when He ascended and the Holy Ghost is a gift, then can we safely say that Jesus had ascended before He breathed on the apostles and told them to receive the Holy Ghost? Is there any scripture given that specifically says between Joh 20:17 and Joh 20:19 Jesus did not ascend to the Father? Any thoughts, comments, other scripture that supports that Jesus ascended and returned before He breathed on the Apostles?