Homosexuality Not Discussed in the New Testament?

[atruckersprincess]

Not sure where this discussion needs to go, but since this about a debate I'm having with someone else, I decided to put it here.

So, we're debating homosexuality. I quoted these 2 verses from Leviticus about why the Bible says it's wrong:

LEVITICUS 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

LEVITICUS 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


This was her reply to me (I separated the paragraphs to make it easier to read):

second to brie, i was raised in the church, my grandfather was a minster for 40+ years. we were taught that homosexuality was wrong cause god said so. now mind you i no longer attend church, haven't for some time as i don't consider myself a christian any longer.

yes i was baptized at 13 and i knew what i was doing and made the choice myself and as i got older started asking a lot more questions and couldn't get answers to them and that is what spurred me looking into other religions. but this isn't about religion or whether god says that it's right or wrong, it is about equality.

i know that you posted two different scriptures from Leviticus in this thread which state that homosexuality is wrong to support your argument. that is good. problem is (i don't know what church you attend, i grew up in the church of christ.) that we were taught and the church of christ still teaches that when the new testament was written it was the new laws to live by, yes the commandments were still to be followed but there was a new way of life and the problems that were happening during the old testament weren't continuing in the new testament.

the church says that the old testament is to show you the errors of the people back in the day (so to speak) and the new testament is how you should live your life. you should learn from those mistakes and use those lessons of course but the whole point of the new testament was new guidelines to live your life by. there is nothing in the new testament that states that homosexuality is wrong.

A couple other things about her. Her new "religion" is Wiccan and she claims to have 11 brothers, all of whom are homosexual. 1 has died of AIDS and another brother and his "husband" are both HIV positive.

So, my questions are:

1. Is this right, about not having to follow the Old Testament? I personally think that everything in the Bible is supposed to be followed.

2. Is homosexuality as a sin not mentioned in the New Testament?

[HeIsEnough]

2. Is homosexuality as a sin not mentioned in the New Testament?

Here are several among others.

Romans 1

God's Wrath Against Mankind

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.


26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.


28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

1 Corinthians 6


9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


1 Timothy 1

9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

The highlighted verses are translated from this word:


G733
ἀρσενοκοίτης
arsenokoitēs
ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace
From G730 and G2845; a sodomite: - abuser of (that defile) self with mankind.
1. Is this right, about not having to follow the Old Testament? I personally think that everything in the Bible is supposed to be followed.

As in we no longer offer sacrifices, even though we gentiles never offered them, yes.

The Lord has given us a new way to live, by the Spirit.

This way will teach a man not to lay with another man, or to say it is "o.k"


Romans 7

An Illustration From Marriage

1Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 3So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. 4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%207;&version=31;#fen-NIV-28082a)] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Struggling With Sin

7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%207;&version=31;#fen-NIV-28084b)] 8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. 9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%207;&version=31;#fen-NIV-28095c)] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

[atruckersprincess]

Thank you :)

[Zaphnathpaaneah]

The next thing you're going to hear is, "Well, Jesus never said it way wrong. Those are just words of Paul"


Well, actually Jesus did say it was wrong:


2 Timothy 3:16 (NKJV) 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ....

[Betty]

I came across a group a couple years ago that believe that Paul tried to steal the Gospel from Jesus. They do not read any books in the Bible written by Paul. People want to discount anything that is against a sin they do not want to give up. This is going to get worse when it comes to the homosexual life style because that is considered the norm now in America and if you are against it you are considered a racist.:tsk
betty

[MarchingHumbly]

So, my questions are:

1. Is this right, about not having to follow the Old Testament? I personally think that everything in the Bible is supposed to be followed.

2. Is homosexuality as a sin not mentioned in the New Testament?

1. Mosaic Law still applies where relevant. For example, Jesus specifically discussed adultery and murder. These are moral issues. But a lot of the Torah includes everyday advice not related to morality, i.e. healthy foods, disease containment, business practices, etc. So it's not reasonable to compare eating shellfish with committing murder. Readers need to try to see the reason behind the commandment.

2. That's a common misconception. Jesus never said anything on homosexuality. Paul did several times.

[HeIsEnough]

2. That's a common misconception. Jesus never said anything on homosexuality. Paul did several times.

True. He came to save, not condemn. The world already stood condemned.

We would be hard pressed to keep a coherent picture of the scriptures if, when we say Paul said something, it was indeed God saying it through Paul. For all intensive purposes, what Paul says, God says.

[Buzzardhut]

1. Mosaic Law still applies where relevant. For example, Jesus specifically discussed adultery and murder. These are moral issues. But a lot of the Torah includes everyday advice not related to morality, i.e. healthy foods, disease containment, business practices, etc. So it's not reasonable to compare eating shellfish with committing murder. Readers need to try to see the reason behind the commandment.

2. That's a common misconception. Jesus never said anything on homosexuality. Paul did several times.
Jesus will have plenty to say about homosexuality at the judgment seat. :)

[lmenningen]

... 1. Is this right, about not having to follow the Old Testament? I personally think that everything in the Bible is supposed to be followed...Followed? Well, not all of the OT is telling you things that have to be followed, per se. From much of the content of the OT we can surmise one purpose of it is to reveal the personality of God to us; and it is from knowing His nature that we get some of the loathing for sin we need.