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LightOfMyLife
November 4th, 2009, 11:29 PM
Here is a link that I found on Psalm 83 that might help. http://www.bible411.com/currentevents/ce060807.htm

mom4Yehoshua
November 4th, 2009, 11:39 PM
I totally agree with Kit. I have always believed from my own understanding of the scriptures that Psalm 83 is a prayer for destruction of Israel's enemies. I agree with her about the Ezekiel war as well. It does not give God glory if the IDF is involved in actually saving Israel from destruction, this is indeed God's battle to fight. :pray Continuing to pray for Israel and Jerusalem. I find it fascinating that our prayers are actually prophesied in scripture. It is neat to realize that I am helping to bring the prayers of Psalm 83 before our Lord God. :yeah It is so neat! :D

1angel4u
November 5th, 2009, 12:25 AM
I totally agree with Kit. I have always believed from my own understanding of the scriptures that Psalm 83 is a prayer for destruction of Israel's enemies. I agree with her about the Ezekiel war as well. It does not give God glory if the IDF is involved in actually saving Israel from destruction, this is indeed God's battle to fight. :pray Continuing to pray for Israel and Jerusalem. I find it fascinating that our prayers are actually prophesied in scripture. It is neat to realize that I am helping to bring the prayers of Psalm 83 before our Lord God. :yeah It is so neat! :D

I agree Psa. 83 is a prayer against Israel's enemies. But I've always thought their doom would result in Isa. 17 happening.

Not Eze. 38-39

I have held to the consideration that they may coincide, however, I guess I've been holding out that there would be time in between for us watchmen on the walls, to witness more. . .

qarrysto
November 5th, 2009, 03:08 AM
I mean no harm, I don't want to offend anyone, but I really, really don't understand.

"It is the Lord Himself who will give the Russians the idea to invade Israel", then
"It is God’s battle to fight, and He intends to make Himself known. God Almighty has a plan to personally foil the wicked plans of the enemy" and
"Russia will be destroyed".

I am Russian, I live in Russia and I know that the major religion here is Orthodox branch of Christianity. Historically Russians worship God and Jesus, celebrate all the holidays and so on, while Jews follow Judaism, they don't accept Jesus as son of God and are not Christians. So why does God need to make Russian Christians attack Jews first, then destroy these Christians personally for attacking Jews, then reward surviving Christians for surviving?

I do sound angry, sorry, but I just cannot help :( Can anyone please explain me how these plans are any good and awesome? :/

Buzzardhut
November 5th, 2009, 03:43 AM
I mean no harm, I don't want to offend anyone, but I really, really don't understand.

"It is the Lord Himself who will give the Russians the idea to invade Israel", then
"It is God’s battle to fight, and He intends to make Himself known. God Almighty has a plan to personally foil the wicked plans of the enemy" and
"Russia will be destroyed".

I am Russian, I live in Russia and I know that the major religion here is Orthodox branch of Christianity. Historically Russians worship God and Jesus, celebrate all the holidays and so on, while Jews follow Judaism, they don't accept Jesus as son of God and are not Christians. So why does God need to make Russian Christians attack Jews first, then destroy these Christians personally for attacking Jews, then reward surviving Christians for surviving?

I do sound angry, sorry, but I just cannot help :( Can anyone please explain me how these plans are any good and awesome? :/

God knows the future and the ways of man, He knows what they will do and uses the opportunity to present Himself.
The awesome part is God displaying His glory and power to an evil and adulterous generation.

Orthodox have a form of religion based upon works for their salvation, this is the opposite of what scripture teaches for salvation.

If you can persuade Russia to break ties with Iran and support Israel your country would be spared and your anger will dissipate.

http://www.buzzardhut.net/Jewish

http://www.buzzardhut.net/Allah

Angel001
November 5th, 2009, 07:19 AM
I agree Psa. 83 is a prayer against Israel's enemies. But I've always thought their doom would result in Isa. 17 happening.

Not Eze. 38-39

I have held to the consideration that they may coincide, however, I guess I've been holding out that there would be time in between for us watchmen on the walls, to witness more. . .

Totally in agreement with you. ALL of the nations mentioned in Psalms 83 are found in modern day times surrounding Israel.Their final war with Israel has been fortold by many OT prophets (Isaiah,Jeremiah,Obadiah etc),and does seem to be tied in with Isaiah 17.
In Psalms God is always given the credit for defeating Israel's foes,but this does not mean there is not an actual war between troops... (example...Psalms 108:13.."Oh help us fight against our enemies,for men are useless allies. But with the help of God we shall do mighty acts of valor.For He treads down our foes".
These enemies of Israel's since the beginning of Israel are mentioned frequently as doing battle with Israel.However their final destruction is foretold (as well as a setback of some kind in Elam...which is part of modern day Iran...)and they are not mentioned in the Gog confederacy. Something has happened to them prior to the Gog war...with the exception of Elam (Persia,Iran) which also rebuilds. Israel also appears to gain a lot of land after this war...a lot of it in present day Jordan.
Israel is also terribly destroyed (the rest of Isaiah 17). However she rebuilds and becomes wealthy...and will more than likely be "living without walls in safety"..Ezekial 38 and 39 says they are...sometimes the simplest interpretation is all there is. Gog will go after a spoil and this is where they are supernaturally destroyed by God.
Looking more and more likely to happen soon.
The question is will Gog happen soon after this first war. I do not think so...there is a time of rebuilding to bring Israel back to the point of being a land to come into to take a spoil...jmho. How long that time is is in God's time,not ours.But He has said there are certain conditions that Israel will be having before this Gog war happens. Could be 5,10 years or more. again jmho


I mean no harm, I don't want to offend anyone, but I really, really don't understand.

"It is the Lord Himself who will give the Russians the idea to invade Israel", then
"It is God’s battle to fight, and He intends to make Himself known. God Almighty has a plan to personally foil the wicked plans of the enemy" and
"Russia will be destroyed".

I am Russian, I live in Russia and I know that the major religion here is Orthodox branch of Christianity. Historically Russians worship God and Jesus, celebrate all the holidays and so on, while Jews follow Judaism, they don't accept Jesus as son of God and are not Christians. So why does God need to make Russian Christians attack Jews first, then destroy these Christians personally for attacking Jews, then reward surviving Christians for surviving?

I do sound angry, sorry, but I just cannot help :( Can anyone please explain me how these plans are any good and awesome? :/


Eventually all the nations on Earth will be judged. I am in the minority on this board..but I am not sold totally that Russia is going to invade Israel along with Gog.
Yes..Russia seems to be selling weapons to Iran...and American companies still do business with Iran inspite of the sanctions.It is all about money at this time.
I know Hal's sources says Russia is the country associated with Gog..however I have also found sources that say the people spoken of occupied the areas around the Caspian and Black Seas. (the modern day "istan" nations,all Muslim countries).This has been stated by rabbis...and seems to make more sense than Russia going aganst Israel.
Like the rest of the world..they will sit back and watch..how will Israel be able to prevail against a mass assembled Army with probable chem/nuke weapons? Then the nations will trade with the "Gog victor".
However,God does intervene supernaturally somehow and surprise...Israel remains,Gog is gone along with her armies and destruction to her homelands along the coast (of the Black and Caspian seas??)
It is my belief the ac later goes against Russia...the king of the north in the endtimes. But that is just my opinion. Time will tell.

WalkTheLine
November 5th, 2009, 09:16 AM
Doctor Besher makes a compelling argument but I disagree with his conclusions that Psa 83 is linked to Eze 38&39.

List of People/nations from the imprecatory prayer Psa 83;

5For they have (J)conspired together with one mind;
Against You they make a covenant:
6The tents of (K)Edom (Southern Jordan) and the (L)Ishmaelites, (Extreme Northern Saudi Arabia)
(M)Moab (Central Jordan) and the (N)Hagrites; (Egypt)
7(O)Gebal (Northern Lebanon) and (P)Ammon (Northern Jordan) and (Q)Amalek (Sinai),
(R)Philistia (Gaza) with the inhabitants of (S)Tyre (Southern Lebanon);
8(T)Assyria (Syria reaching into the area above Northern Iraq) also has joined with them;
They have become a help to the (U)children of Lot. Selah.

So who was Asaph the writer of Psa 83?

He was one of the Chief priest and musicians appointed by David. 1 Ch 16:5.
What was happening in Israel at the time of Asaph?
David was on the throne, the Ark was being brought to the city of David, plans for building the temple were going on, the Philistines had been routed, there was a prosperous time and Israel was growing in strength and wealth.

What is happening today in Israel?
Plans for the Temple are being made, Israel is growing in strength and wealth, Hamas, Hezbollah have been routed recently, Israel is one of the strongest economies in the world right now.

So why would the Holy Spirit direct Asaph to write such a prayer. It is likely as we suspect that it is for another time when conditions in Israel are the same but they are surrounded by their enemies and the enemies are joining together to destroy Israel and make God out to be a liar.

Where else are the nations/peoples of Psa 83 listed as possible answers to this Holy Spirit inspired imprecatory prayer?

Isa 11:11-16
The Restored Remnant
11Then it will happen on that day that the Lord
Will again recover the second time with His hand
The (X)remnant of His people, who will remain,
From (Y)Assyria, (Z)Egypt, Pathros, Cush, (AA)Elam, Shinar, Hamath,
And from the (AB)islands of the sea.
12And He will lift up a (AC)standard for the nations
And (AD)assemble the banished ones of Israel,
And will gather the dispersed of Judah
From the four corners of the earth.
13Then the (AE)jealousy of Ephraim will depart,
And those who harass Judah will be cut off;
Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah,
And Judah will not harass Ephraim.
14They will (AF)swoop down on the slopes of the Philistines on the (AG)west;
Together they will (AH)plunder the sons of the east;
They will possess (AI)Edom and (AJ)Moab,
And the sons of Ammon will be subject to them.
15And the LORD will (AK)utterly destroy
The tongue of the Sea of Egypt;
And He will (AL)wave His hand over the (AM)River
With His scorching wind;
And He will strike it into seven streams
And make men walk over dry-shod.
16And there will be a (AN)highway from Assyria
For the (AO)remnant of His people who will be left,
Just as there was for Israel
In (AP)the day that they came up out of the land of Egypt.

Here we see that Israel will sweep over Moab, Edom, Ammon, and the Philistines.

Edom Will Be Humbled
1The vision of Obadiah.
Thus says the Lord GOD concerning (A)Edom--
(B)We have heard a report from the LORD,
And an (C)envoy has been sent among the nations saying,
"(D)Arise and let us go against her for battle"--
2"Behold, I will make you (E)small among the nations;
You are greatly despised.
3"The (F)arrogance of your heart has deceived you,
You who live in the clefts of the (G)rock,
In the loftiness of your dwelling place,
Who say in your heart,
'(H)Who will bring me down to earth?'
4"Though you (I)build high like the eagle,
Though you set your nest among the (J)stars,
From there I will bring you down," declares the LORD.
5"If (K)thieves came to you,
If robbers by night--
O how you will be ruined!--
Would they not steal only until they had enough?
If grape gatherers came to you,
(L)Would they not leave some gleanings?
6"O how Esau will be (M)ransacked,
And his hidden treasures searched out!
7"All the (N)men allied with you
Will send you forth to the border,
And the men at peace with you
Will deceive you and overpower you
They who eat your (O)bread
Will set an ambush for you
(There is (P)no understanding in him.)
8"Will I not on that day," declares the LORD,
"(Q)Destroy wise men from Edom
And understanding from the mountain of Esau?
9"Then your (R)mighty men will be dismayed, O (S)Teman,
So that everyone may be (T)cut off from the mountain of Esau by slaughter.
10"Because of (U)violence to your brother Jacob,
You will be covered with shame,
(V)And you will be cut off forever.
11"On the day that you (W)stood aloof,
On the day that strangers carried off his wealth,
And foreigners entered his gate
And (X)cast lots for Jerusalem--
(Y)You too were as one of them.
12"(Z)Do not gloat over your brother's day,
The day of his misfortune
And (AA)do not rejoice over the sons of Judah
In the day of their destruction;
Yes, (AB)do not boast
In the day of their distress.
13"Do not enter the gate of My people
In the (AC)day of their disaster
Yes, you, do not gloat over their calamity
In the day of their disaster
And do not (AD)loot their wealth
In the day of their disaster.
14"Do not (AE)stand at the fork of the road
To cut down their fugitives;
And do not imprison their survivors
In the day of their distress.
The Day of the LORD and the Future
15"For the (AF)day of the LORD draws near on all the nations
(AG)As you have done, it will be done to you
Your (AH)dealings will return on your own head.
16"Because just as you (AI)drank on (AJ)My holy mountain,
All the nations (AK)will drink continually.
They will drink and swallow
And become as if they had never existed.
17"But on Mount (AL)Zion there will be those who escape,
And it will be holy
And the house of Jacob will (AM)possess their possessions.
18"Then the house of Jacob will be a (AN)fire
And the house of Joseph a flame;
But the house of Esau will be as stubble
And they will set them on fire and consume them,
So that there will be (AO)no survivor of the house of Esau,"
For the LORD has spoken.
19Then those of the [a]Negev will (AP)possess the mountain of Esau,
And those of the [b]Shephelah the (AQ)Philistine plain;
Also, (AR)possess the territory of Ephraim and the territory of Samaria,
And Benjamin will possess Gilead.
20And the exiles of this host of the sons of Israel,
Who are among the Canaanites as far as (AS)Zarephath,
And the exiles of Jerusalem who are in Sepharad
Will possess the (AT)cities of the Negev.
21The (AU)deliverers will ascend Mount Zion
To judge the mountain of Esau,
And the (AV)kingdom will be the LORD'S.

We see the phrase “the Day of the Lord draws near on all nations”. This prophecy will be concluded as the tribulation approaches, the tribulation being the Day of the Lord.

Are there other prophecies that are not completed where Israel sweep over these peoples and nations?

Mic 4: 11-13
11"And now (AB)many nations have been assembled against you
Who say, 'Let her be polluted,
And let our eyes gloat over Zion.'
12"But they do not (AC)know the thoughts of the LORD,
And they do not understand His purpose;
For He has gathered them like sheaves to the threshing floor.
13"Arise and (AD)thresh, daughter of Zion,
For your horn I will make iron
And your hoofs I will make bronze,
That you may (AE)pulverize many peoples,
That you may (AF)devote to the LORD their unjust gain
And their wealth to the Lord of all the earth.

Isa 41:10-16 seems to be a direct reply to the prayer of Psa 83 in that God does what the petitioner asks.
10'Do not (Z)fear, for I am with you;
Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God
I will strengthen you, surely (AA)I will help you,
Surely I will uphold you with My righteous (AB)right hand.'
11"Behold, (AC)all those who are angered at you will be shamed and dishonored;
(AD)Those who contend with you will be as nothing and will perish.
12"(AE)You will seek those who quarrel with you, but will not find them,
Those who war with you will be as nothing and non-existent.
13"For I am the LORD your God, (AF)who upholds your right hand,
Who says to you, '(AG)Do not fear, I will help you.'
14"Do not fear, you (AH)worm Jacob, you men of Israel;
I will help you," declares the LORD, "and (AI)your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel.
15"Behold, I have made you a new, sharp threshing sledge with double edges;
(AJ)You will thresh the (AK)mountains and pulverize them,
And will make the hills like chaff.
16"You will (AL)winnow them, and the wind will carry them away,
And the storm will scatter them;
But you will (AM)rejoice in the LORD,
You will glory in the Holy One of Israel.

Bad news for Edom and Ammon two of the Peoples/Nations listed in Psa 83,
Jer 49:1-22
Prophecy against Ammon
1Concerning the sons of (A)Ammon. Thus says the LORD:
"Does Israel have no sons?
Or has he no heirs?
Why then has Malcam taken possession of Gad
And his people settled in its cities?
2"Therefore behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD,
"That I will cause a (B)trumpet blast of war to be heard
Against (C)Rabbah of the sons of Ammon;
And it will become a desolate heap,
And her (D)towns will be set on fire
Then Israel will take (E)possession of his possessors,"
Says the LORD.
3"Wail, O (F)Heshbon, for (G)Ai has been destroyed!
Cry out, O daughters of Rabbah,
(H)Gird yourselves with sackcloth and lament,
And rush back and forth inside the walls;
For Malcam will (I)go into exile
Together with his priests and his princes.
4"How (J)boastful you are about the valleys!
Your valley is flowing away,
O (K)backsliding daughter
Who trusts in her (L)treasures, saying,
'(M)Who will come against me?'
5"Behold, I am going to bring (N)terror upon you,"
Declares the Lord GOD of hosts,
"From all directions around you;
And each of you will be (O)driven out headlong,
With no one to gather the (P)fugitives together.
6"But afterward I will (Q)restore
The fortunes of the sons of Ammon,"
Declares the LORD.
Prophecy against Edom
7Concerning (R)Edom
Thus says the LORD of hosts,
"Is there no longer any (S)wisdom in (T)Teman?
Has good counsel been lost to the prudent?
Has their wisdom decayed?
8"Flee away, turn back, dwell in the depths,
O inhabitants of (U)Dedan,
For I will bring the (V)disaster of Esau upon him
At the time I punish him.
9"(W)If grape gatherers came to you,
Would they not leave gleanings?
If thieves came by night,
They would destroy only until they had enough.
10"But I have (X)stripped Esau bare,
I have uncovered his hiding places
So that he will not be able to conceal himself;
His offspring has been destroyed along with his relatives
And his neighbors, and (Y)he is no more.
11"Leave your (Z)orphans behind, I will keep them alive;
And let your (AA)widows trust in Me."
12For thus says the LORD, "Behold, those who were not sentenced to drink the (AB)cup will certainly drink it, and are you the one who will be (AC)completely acquitted? You will not be acquitted, but you will certainly drink it.
13"For I have (AD)sworn by Myself," declares the LORD, "that (AE)Bozrah will become an (AF)object of horror, a reproach, a ruin and a curse; and all its cities will become perpetual ruins."
14I have (AG)heard a message from the LORD,
And an (AH)envoy is sent among the nations, saying,
"(AI)Gather yourselves together and come against her,
And rise up for battle!"
15"For behold, I have made you small among the nations,
Despised among men.
16"As for the terror of you,
The arrogance of your heart has deceived you,
O you who live in the clefts of the (AJ)rock,
Who occupy the height of the hill
Though you make your nest as (AK)high as an eagle's,
I will (AL)bring you down from there," declares the LORD.
17"Edom will become an (AM)object of horror; everyone who passes by it will be horrified and will (AN)hiss at all its wounds.
18"Like the (AO)overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah with its neighbors," says the LORD, "(AP)no one will live there, nor will a son of man reside in it.
19"(AQ)Behold, one will come up like a lion from the (AR)thickets of the Jordan against a perennially watered pasture; for in an instant I will make him run away from it, and whoever is (AS)chosen I shall appoint over it For who is (AT)like Me, and who will summon Me into court? And who then is the shepherd (AU)who can stand against Me?"
20Therefore hear the (AV)plan of the LORD which He has planned against Edom, and His purposes which He has purposed against the inhabitants of Teman: surely they will drag them off, even the little ones of the flock; surely He will make their pasture (AW)desolate because of them.
21The (AX)earth has quaked at the noise of their downfall. There is an outcry! The noise of it has been heard at the Red Sea.
22Behold, He will mount up and (AY)swoop like an eagle and spread out His wings against Bozrah; and the (AZ)hearts of the mighty men of Edom in that day will be like the heart of a woman in labor.
Isa 17: 1-3
Prophecy about Damascus
1The (A)oracle concerning (B)Damascus
"Behold, Damascus is about to be (C)removed from being a city
And will become a (D)fallen ruin.
2"The cities of (E)Aroer are forsaken;
They will be for (F)flocks to lie down in,
And there will be (G)no one to frighten them.
3"The (H)fortified city will disappear from Ephraim,
And sovereignty from Damascus
And the remnant of Aram;
They will be like the (I)glory of the sons of Israel,"
Declares the LORD of hosts.

Isa 17:4 and onward speak of Israel at the time of Jacobs trouble, Isa 17:4 “Now in that day” is the key that identifies the time frame for this prophecy.

Conclusion the answer to Psa 83 takes place as “The day of the Lord draws near on all nations” Oba 1:4

Gideon300
November 5th, 2009, 10:11 AM
I don't know who this Kit Olsen is, but it looks to me like he completely left glossed over major points in Ezekiel 38. Let's break this down.

Kit Olsen says this about 38:11


The passage says the people of Israel are a “peaceful people”--not that they are living in “peace.”

Here is Ezekiel 38:11: let's look at it:


“You will say, I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will go to a peaceful people, who dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates"

OKay, so why does Israel have walls and fences around areas inside Israel right now??? To keep out foreign enemies! If we do not have walled villages, you dwell safely without walls, and no bars nor gates..what would this be called??? LIVING IN PEACE! Is Kit fibbing to us, or does he just really not get it?

Kit also states this:

However, there are no extensive walls surrounding all of Israel.

Is he joking? There is a major fence separating Palestine from Israel. As you can read here: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/fence.html

here is a picture of it, notice how it is a wall:
http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/west-bank-fence.jpg

He also states that the war that takes place before Ezekiel 38 & 39 is Isaiah 17. He states this because of Ezekiel 38:8:


In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war

Here's the problem. Ezekiel 38:8 & 11 both state that the nation of Israel are living in safety without walls or gates. If the Palestinians are still next to Israel how is this possible? Syria is just one of many nations that want to eliminate them that are living on their border. I agree that Isaiah 17 very well takes place before Ezekiel 38 & 39, but something has to occur to eradicate Israel's direct neighbors that threaten their very existence every day! There are two that do this on a daily basis, and has the nation of Israel on a constant state of alert, and they are Palestine, and Lebanon. Iran is of course a threat, but they don't live right next to Israel. Palestine and Lebanon contain Hamas and Hezbollah. Both of these two terrorist groups are proxies of Iran. Psalm 83 just happens to list both of these two people in it's list of nations:

Psalm 83: 5-7:


With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you-

6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,

7 Gebal, [a] Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.


Does anyone know what is in the City of Tyre today? A major headquarters of Hezbollah. How about the tents of Edom, and Philistia? Today that is Southern Jordan and Palestine where the people that refer to themselves as Palestinians live. Using the word tents refers to either nomadic people or displaced (refugees) people. These tents popped up in 1949 following the Arab's unsuccessful elimination of the newly established Jewish state, and they are still there today.

Let's look a little more at Psalm 83:9 (this is Asaph praying to God):


9 Do to them as you did to Midian. 11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna


Kit asks this:

Where does it say in Psalm 83 that man-made military forces will save Israel?

Okay, here is his answer. Psalm 83:9 this is a direct reference to Judges 7 & 8 (Gideon vs the Midianites). What was the outcome of this war? God used Gideon's small force to defeated the Midianites. The Israelites wanted to give the glory to Gideon, but he said the glory belonged to God. What happened to the Midianites...?? They were decimated so severely that they never rose up against the nation of Israel again! We also know that Gideon obtained riches from his victory over the Midianites. Ezekiel 38 clearly states that Israel is a wealthy nation, possibly from their victory over the Arab confederacy of Psalm 83...and we know that Gog's objective is to eliminate Israel and gain their riches.

With a victory over the Psalm 83 Arabs Israel will have won land that contains oil fields. Russia's economy just so happens to be based on their natural gas and oil resources. Israel, since their recent discovery, is now the world's largest holder of natural gas. If they are now a major oil producer, the nation of Israel can essentially collapse the Russian economy. Is this Gog's hook in the jaw? Only time will tell.

Side note: Judges 8:21 states:
So Gideon stepped forward and killed them, and took the ornaments off their camels' necks.

Biblical historians state that the ornaments taken off the camel's necks were crescent moons...

So, it is safe to say that God uses the IDF to absolutely decimate a much larger Arab confederacy that resides on Israel's border because of the clear reference to Judges 7 & 8.

What is the outcome of Ezekiel 38 & 39 (Gog & Magog)? God acts on his own and destroys the invading army supernaturally.

Kit states that Psalm 83 & Ezekiel 38 & 39 are the same war. How is this possible with such dramatically different outcomes....???

Also, why did Ezekiel not list the nations of Psalm 83 if they are participating? Ezekiel knew these nations quite well. Ezekiel gives us a list of specific nations, and states there are many nations with them. It is probably safe to say that he states, many nations with them, because the "many nations" are nations that were not in existence when God gave him this prophecy. Such as, Pakistan, all the other Stan nations, Malaysia, and Indonesia. These were future nations that he was not familiar with. I could be completely wrong, this is just my opinion.

This guy states at the beginning of his article that this is not a prophecy, but just a prayer and later says it is a partially fulfilled prophecy...it can't be both....

All of these nations have not been at war with Israel at the exact same time, and I believe that Psalm 83's fulfillment has begun and will be ultimately fulfilled just as the Bible describes in the near future. Let me end with saying that Kit Olsen references Dr Beshore as a basis for his argument, and I would like to say that both Dr David Reagan, and Arnold Fruchtenbaum believe Psalm 83 is a prophecy yet to be fulfilled.


Eventually all the nations on Earth will be judged. I am in the minority on this board..but I am not sold totally that Russia is going to invade Israel along with Gog.


If you have not read Red Storm Rising or Joel Rosenberg's Epicenter I would do that.

We know that the Magogites are the same people called the Scythians by the Greeks. They lived in modern day Russia, and the Russian Museum of History in Moscow has numerous Scythian artifacts found in Russia. Also, some historians say that the Scythians/Magogites are an Iranian people that migrated to the area of Russia. So, it is no wonder that both Russia and Iran (Persia) are part of the same confederacy that attack Israel because, ultimately, they are the same people.


http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/eschatology/ezekiel.htm

I have not read either of those,however I will put them on a list to do so. However..I am fairly well aware of how Russia has come to be believed to be involved with the Gog/Magog coalition.
The above study is more what I believe about prophecy and how to interpret from the perspective of the prophet.
I do not agree 100% with all that is in this study...particularly the very last paragraph.It is quite possible Syria and Egypt are not mentioned as being w/Gog because their power has been decreased due to a war prior to Gog.
However it unfolds..it is irrelevant...the outcome will be God's victory.
I can remember sitting around with my dad and grandmother back in the 70's through the 90's. Gomer was still believed to be Germany then. I could not figure out WHY Germany was going to attack Israel. Now with Gomer being Turkey...it makes a lot of sense. I feel the same way about Russia...always have. Russia is supplying technology and weapons to Iran...it is for the money. I believe when war with Israel comes they will sit back as the nations going against Israel will be very heavily armed...probably with Russian weapons. They may fully expect Israel to be crushed and have a foothold in the door to trade with these nations...but alas...things will not turn out the way they hope.
The nations that are currently believed to be Russia in today's interpretation of prophecy...if they are indeed the Muslim nations up to the Russian border...that just makes more sense to me.:idunno

Your statement I put in bold is the exact reason Gog invades Israel, for a spoil, for economic wealth.

Have you looked into the fact that Russia's population is turning Muslim? Did you know that Putin is married to a Muslim woman?

Russia currently has around a 1 birthrate, and they are losing 700,000 people per year. The Muslims in the country, however, are around 6-7 birthrate. Islamic population in Russia is currently 17.5%. As you can see, in one generation Russia is going to have a dramatically different population!

But, it is not just the regular population turning Muslim, it is also the military. This quote comes from Daniel Pipes who is an expert on radical Islam, and the Middle East:


"By 2015, Muslims will make up a majority of Russia's conscript army, and by 2020 a fifth of the population."

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/08/predicting-a-majority-muslim-russia

So, in a generation Russia will be a major player in Islam. They have the weaponry and technology to lead a massive invasion. Also, Ezekiel 38 & 39 doesn't just say it is a normal military invasion, no, it is a nuclear equipped military invasion.

Ezekiel 39: 15 states:

As they go through the land and one of them sees a human bone, he will set up a marker beside it until the gravediggers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog.

This is the exact action to follow per the US and Israeli militaries if there is a nuclear accident. You mark a body, and the hazmat team comes in to bury or remove.

I believe, like you, that the Stan nations will be involved too, I just don't think they will lead the invasion. I believe Gog is a Russian, possibly Czar, or dictator.

Angel001
November 5th, 2009, 04:02 PM
http://www.biblicalstudies.com/bstudy/eschatology/ezekiel.htm

I have not read either of those,however I will put them on a list to do so. However..I am fairly well aware of how Russia has come to be believed to be involved with the Gog/Magog coalition.
The above study is more what I believe about prophecy and how to interpret from the perspective of the prophet.
I do not agree 100% with all that is in this study...particularly the very last paragraph.It is quite possible Syria and Egypt are not mentioned as being w/Gog because their power has been decreased due to a war prior to Gog.
However it unfolds..it is irrelevant...the outcome will be God's victory.
I can remember sitting around with my dad and grandmother back in the 70's through the 90's. Gomer was still believed to be Germany then. I could not figure out WHY Germany was going to attack Israel. Now with Gomer being Turkey...it makes a lot of sense. I feel the same way about Russia...always have. Russia is supplying technology and weapons to Iran...it is for the money. I believe when war with Israel comes they will sit back as the nations going against Israel will be very heavily armed...probably with Russian weapons. They may fully expect Israel to be crushed and have a foothold in the door to trade with these nations...but alas...things will not turn out the way they hope.
The nations that are currently believed to be Russia in today's interpretation of prophecy...if they are indeed the Muslim nations up to the Russian border...that just makes more sense to me.:idunno

HisAlways
November 5th, 2009, 04:54 PM
I totally agree with Kit. I have always believed from my own understanding of the scriptures that Psalm 83 is a prayer for destruction of Israel's enemies. I agree with her about the Ezekiel war as well. It does not give God glory if the IDF is involved in actually saving Israel from destruction, this is indeed God's battle to fight. :pray Continuing to pray for Israel and Jerusalem. I find it fascinating that our prayers are actually prophesied in scripture. It is neat to realize that I am helping to bring the prayers of Psalm 83 before our Lord God. :yeah It is so neat! :D

I've said this all along. Psalm 83 is constantly being fulfilled, and will be, once again,when the Lord takes care of the enemies, as they were taken care of in 1967 and 1973.