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Kenny
December 5th, 2009, 07:10 PM
I read the articles from the main page.

Just a sample of our readers thinking, which do you agree with?

Seperate battles?
Interesting the 83 - 38 transposition :thinking

Or a Prayer within a prophecy?



I appreciate the structure of the former's argument.

:hatI tend to be in the camp that says psalms 83 is a prayer for Gog/Magog, instead of being a prophacy of a war that wipes out Israel's Neighbors. JMHO

ron4Jesus
December 5th, 2009, 09:05 PM
I voted separate articles . 2 different events Psalms 83 first and Isaiah 17

4EverHis
December 6th, 2009, 06:06 AM
The first half of Psalm 83, is the enemies conspiring, talk, no action. It is not war. This evil hatred towards Israel has been recycled for centuries in these nations surrounding Israel. God even tells us in His Word, that he recognizes this evil, when addressing the "prince of Tyre" in Ezekiel:28

Ezekiel 28:13
13. You were in Eden, the garden of God;

God has Ezekiel dedicate 8 Chapters in the book of Ezekiel, to the judgment coming for the nations surrounding Israel. While this evil has recycled in these nations for centuries, there will indeed be Gods final judgment of these nations
"round about" Israel, as His Word tells us in Ezekiel 28.

The second half of Psalm 83, is a Prayer that has yet to be answered. Isaiah 17 is Gods answer to that Prayer. Isaiah 17 will precede the Ezekiel 38 invasion.

The Prayer
Psalm 83:13
13. O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.

The Prayer Answered
Isaiah 17:13
13. The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

ron4Jesus
December 13th, 2009, 02:57 PM
I agree with Jack it's 2 different events. Someone asked a question that was posted on Rapture Ready here is the question and the answer.



Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38, Same Or Different?

Q. Side-by-side arguments concerning interpretation of Psalm 83 are currently listed in Rapture Ready. Both sides make believable points to the untrained novice’s eschatological eye. After reading both viewpoints, I still believe that Psalm 83 describes a war separate from Ezekiel 38. However, if someone asked me to justify this position, I don’t believe that I could make a precise, concise, cogent argument because of all the nuances in prophetic interpretations involved in these two articles.


If you will, at some point would you kindly write a “precise-concise” rebuttal to the “Psalm 83 is a non-war” stance? There has to be at least one linchpin errancy in interpretation that will cause a domino effect in demonstrating the falsehood of this argument. Thank you, Jack, for all that you do for your readers. No other eschatology site even comes close.

A. I’ve read both articles and remain persuaded that Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 are two different events. The most obvious difference can be found by comparing the two lists of combatants lining up against Israel. They’re completely different. To me the only way to explain the absence of Israel’s next door neighbors from the battle of Ezekiel 38 is that they’ve already been neutralized, which means Psalm 83 has to happen first. I also don’t buy the argument that life in Israel today meets the definition of “peaceful and unsuspecting” as Ezekiel 38:11 requires, nor do I believe that sufficient motivation exists yet for Russia to justify being drawn into the fray. Finally, all the current indicators favor Israel launching a preventive strike against its enemies, not being caught by a surprise attack as Ezekiel described. But if Iran’s nuclear program was dealt even a temporary setback, and Hamas, Hizbollah, the PLO, and Syria were no longer threats, I could see Israel being lulled into a false sense of security.


Link : http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/psalm-83-and-ezekiel-38-same-or-different/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Gracethrufaith+%28GraceThruFa ith%29&utm_content=Yahoo!+Mail

FrankBeMe
December 31st, 2009, 10:01 AM
Since I first began reading prophecy books, beginning with The Late, Great Planet Earth back in the 1970s, I never, in my memory, read anything concerning Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17. I've read mainly Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye. The first I've seen anything regarding Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 was on here.

I read both dry, that is without referring to any commentary. While I could see that Isaiah 17 was speaking of a future event regarding Damascus, I couldn't see anything prophetic in Psalm 83.

I studied further using John MacArthur's MacArthur Study Bible (NASB), Tim LaHaye's and Ed Hindson's A Popular Encyclopedia of Bible Prophecy and John Walvoord's Every Prophecy of the Bible as well as the NLT Study Bible and the NKJV Study Bible, published by Thomas Nelson.

Psalm 83

In the article titled "Psalms, Eschatology of," Gary Yates, a professor at Liberty (he was the lecturer in my course DVD's for my Old Testament Orientation class there), makes no mention of Psalm 83. Likewise in Walvoord there is no mention of that psalm.

MacArthur writes this about Psalm 83: "2 Chronicles 20:1-30 may record the specific historic event prompting this psalm, though some Bible students believe that the nations mentioned are only symbolic of all of Israel's enemies."

The NLT Study Bible says that it is "unclear whether this psalm arose out of a specific historical instance of opposition of these nations, or if it is a poetic collage of nations representing Israel's enemies."

The NKJV Study Bible says that we need "to keep in mind that the intent of the psalmist Asaph is to vindicate for the glory of God."

Taking these into consideration, I don't see Psalm 83 as prophecy, but instead a continuous plea by Israel to God to rid them of their enemies, or a "please Lord, please get these nations off our back!" So no, I don't see this as prophetic.

Isaiah 17 and the destruction of Damascus.

MacArthur says this was fulfilled when Damascus was destroyed by the Assyrians in 732 BC. The NLT Study Bible agrees that Damascus "fell when Assyrian King Tiglath-pileser III invaded in 732 BC." Walvoord also agrees on page 101 of his book "The destruction of Damascus was fulfilled in history and prophecy." And Ed Hindson, in the article "Isaiah, Eschatology of" agrees with this writing "Many of the events described in his (Isaiah's) prophecies were fulfilled during his own lifetime, including the fall of Samaria and Damascus." (152)

I agree. Damascus fell and was destroyed in 732 BC. At the time Isaiah wrote this prophecy, it was referring to a future event, one that occurred in his lifetime.

At the same time, I have no doubt that Damascus, as well as pretty much every major city in the world, will be destroyed at some point in the future during the Great Tribulation, especially if Syria is allied with the Gog/Magog alliance.

In conclusion, Psalm 83 is a prayer by Asaph, and probably many in Israel at the time, to rid Israel of her enemies. I'm certain that this is prayed still today, but I don't see it as a future war occurring on its own or as part of the Gog/Magog war.

As for Isaiah 17, it is most definitely prophetic, but has already been fulfilled with the destruction of Damascus in 732 BC. But, as I said above, Damascus, as well as the rest of the world's major cities, will be destroyed in the future as part of either the Gog/Magog war or as part of the Great Tribulation.

acceptedintheBeloved
December 31st, 2009, 10:08 AM
John Walvoord's Every Prophecy of the Bible

...

Walvoord also agrees on page 101 of his book "The destruction of Damascus was fulfilled in history and prophecy."

...

I agree. Damascus fell and was destroyed in 732 BC. At the time Isaiah wrote this prophecy, it was referring to a future event, one that occurred in his lifetime.


I noticed that in Walvood's book, too.

Christina
December 31st, 2009, 10:12 AM
When Damascus is destroyed, isn't it to be destroyed and never inhabited again? If that's the case then this prophecy has not been fulfilled yet.

fracturedInfinity
December 31st, 2009, 10:26 AM
When Damascus is destroyed, isn't it to be destroyed and never inhabited again? If that's the case then this prophecy has not been fulfilled yet.

Isaiah 17 (King James Version)

Isaiah 17
1The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.

2The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

3The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts.

4And in that day it shall come to pass, that the glory of Jacob shall be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean.

:thinking

4EverHis
December 31st, 2009, 11:39 AM
Damascus is still called Damascus :) It has been "conquered" by any number of enemies, and still remains "Damascus". The Syrian city of Arpad, did not surrender so easily. It took Tiglath-pileser three years of siege to conquer Arpad, then he massacred the inhabitants and destroyed the city.In 732 he advanced upon Damascus, first devastating the gardens outside the city and then conquering the capital and killing the king, whom he replaced with a governor. Damascus continued to be a city. I bring up this point because God, in His Word makes it very clear in Isaiah 17:
• Damascus will not be "conquered" , but rather no longer ever to be a city again.
Isaiah 17:1
1.The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
• It took time for Tiglath-pileser to conquer Damascus. God, in His Word, again makes it very clear. Damascus will be there in the morning, and then gone by that evening. Gone in one day.

Isaiah 17:14
14.And behold at eveningtide trouble; and before the morning he is not. This is the portion of them that spoil us, and the lot of them that rob us.

Isaiah 17:1 - Complete destruction of Damascus.
Isaiah 17:2 - Jordan
2.The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

(Aroer is a region on the northern bank of the Arnon River in what is today Jordan. In Moses day, it marked the southern boundary of the territory given to the two and a half tribes who received their land inheritance on the east side of the Jordan River. Aroer was in the territory of Reuben. There was another Aroer in the territory of Gad, near Rabbah. Rabbah is today called Amman, capital of Jordan.)

“The cities of Aroer are forsaken “ they are gone. The "flocks that will lie down " in safety - with Damascus, Amman, and the PA gone, they, "the flocks" - the Israeli's, will feel "safe", in their small portion of reclaimed ancient land once more."none shall make them afraid", because they're gone! They flee to Jordan at the Mid-Trib.

Isaiah 17:3
3.The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts.

The land of the tribe of Ephraim sits in the middle of the "West Bank". The "fortresses"" in Isaiah 17 verse 3, the terrorist strongholds that are eliminated.

The final statement " and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the Lord of hosts", is a strong statement of the judgment against Syria. Isaiah was writing during the time that the Assyrians had devastated the northern 10 Tribes of Israel. Isaiah is saying that Syria will experience the same that they did to Israel.

Psalm 83 - The first part is conspiracy "talk", there is no action. The second half is a Prayer, that is answered in Isaiah 17.

The Prayer
Psalm 83:13
13. O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.

The Prayer Answered
Isaiah 17:13
13. The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

drjoshua
December 31st, 2009, 12:28 PM
The end of Damascus could be very near...