Is the Psalm 83 War Next on the Prophetic Timeline?

[james46888]

First, lets look at the entire verse, not just a portion of it.
Ezekiel 39:7
7.So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

Yes, God states that His People will not pollute His name, but some of them will,.......it's Ezekiel's battle that officially draws the Jews back to God. (Ezek. 39:22)


Understand your points and, as I said to another poster, I do actually agree that the invasion is pre-trib but it's just that there are a few verses here and there which bother me slightly. Take Ezek 39:7 and Ezek 39:22: It just seems that the language involved indicates that the entire nation is in view not just some of the Jews. In those two verses God states that His people - Israel - will not pollute His name anymore, and that "the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward." Not saying it can't be reconciled and interpreted in the way you do, but it seems it'd be a little strange thing to say if, as Zechariah 13:8-9 makes clear, the vast majority of the nation is still polluting His name in the tribulation period. Although it doesn't necessarily have to indicate "all" Israel it'd seem to at least point to a majority of the nation. Just my opinion of course

[4EverHis]

Understand your points and, as I said to another poster, I do actually agree that the invasion is pre-trib but it's just that there are a few verses here and there which bother me slightly. Take Ezek 39:7 and Ezek 39:22: It just seems that the language involved indicates that the entire nation is in view not just some of the Jews. In those two verses God states that His people - Israel - will not pollute His name anymore, and that "the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward." Not saying it can't be reconciled and interpreted in the way you do, but it seems it'd be a little strange thing to say if, as Zechariah 13:8-9 makes clear, the vast majority of the nation is still polluting His name in the tribulation period. Although it doesn't necessarily have to indicate "all" Israel it'd seem to at least point to a majority of the nation. Just my opinion of course

Forgive me, but first, Welcome to RR :) Again James, we have to read His Word in context to the event. :) In Ezekiel 39 God is instructing His People, and making declarations to them, at the end of the battle that He won for them. He for example, instructs them that they shall commemorate that day. He has fully restored His Covenant
with them, revealed Himself to them after "hiding His Face" from them for thousands of years. He is essentially saying "Im back fully from this day forward". God does say "I will not let them pollute My Name anymore", and this does not conflict with entering into the Trib events. God gave His People the Ten Commandments, and what did they do? They rebelled anyway. Gods People rebelled against Him in the desert with Mosses. Its not unusual for His People to disobey Him, even in the face of Miracles. Yes, God says they "will pollute My name no more" going forward from the Ezekiel 38 battle into the Trib, and from Zaraiah, we see that they will, and those that do will be "cut off and die".
Again, in context, Ezekiel 38-39 cannot take place at anytime during the Trib, as they are two completely different events for many reasons, with very different purposes from God for His People :)

[james46888]

Forgive me, but first, Welcome to RR :)

Thanks.


In Ezekiel 39 God is instructing His People, and making declarations to them, at the end of the battle that He won for them. He for example, instructs them that they shall commemorate that day. He has fully restored His Covenant
with them, revealed Himself to them after "hiding His Face" from them for thousands of years.


I noticed that you mentioned the "hiding His face" passage, a phrase which is only first used near the end of chapter 39 (verse 23 onwards). This brings me to another point: As you may know, scholars such as Arnold Fruchtenbaum and the late David L. Cooper take the view that there are two different events being spoken of in Ezek 38-39. They see Ezek 38-39:16 as dealing with the pre-trib defeat of Russia, but they see v. 17 onwards as dealing with the Armageddon scenario and the 2nd worldwide regathering of the Jews (the "1st" being the one in 1948 and the 2nd occurring at Christ's return to earth). So, to clarify, am I right in thinking that you'd argue against them and say that all of Ezek 38-39 is dealing with events prior to the trib? I ask because in the context of the verses which deal with God no longer hiding His face, Ezekiel speaks of God having mercy upon the WHOLE house of Israel (v.25), and also of His regathering of ALL Jews back to their land (v. 28).

[erok2020]

On CTN, they are currently showing the International Prophecy Conference and Chuck Missler's presentation on Gog-Magog..

Chuck announced that he has new insight on the battle of Gog-Magog.

Link to video (http://www.god.tv/video/play?video=1280)

I took some notes.. Some points I noted:
- Left over weapons to provide all the energy for Israel of seven years
- Professional hired to clear battlefield; bury the dead downwind east of the Dead Sea
- Yemen and Saudi Arabia are only spectators in the battle
- In addition to Magog and Israel, a third party is involved - could it be the USA? (Ez 39:6)
- All of this to happen after the rapture

Current preparatory steps:
- Arab-Israeli Conflict
- New Oil discovery in Caspsian Sea between Russia and Iran
- Iran Nuclear Emergence

Question: Why is there no mention of Israel's immediate neighbors?? Where Lebanese, Iraqis, Egyptians, Saudis, Palestinians, etc. Why are they not mentioned in 38-39?

The world is in for a big surprise! Is there an overlooked event preceding Ezekiel?
Psalm 83: Enemies hate God - confederate enemy is Islam. Psalm is referring to another group of enemy (other than Ezekiel)
Tents of Edom = Palestinian refugee camps.. all 96,000 of them

Ezek 25-32..judgment on seven nations.. what do they have in common? Muslims! Its misleading to call them Arabs...they are muslims.

Order of Events:
- Israel regathered in the land
- Ancient cities rebuilt and inhabited
- They meet Muslin/Arab resistance
- Israel establishes an army for defence
- Adjacent Muslim nation confederate
- Confederacy committed to the destruction of Israel
- War starts with confederacy
- Title regained "My people Israel"
- Israel decisively defeats the confederacy
- Israel becomes exceedingly great army
- Israel takes prisoners of war
- Region is reshaped
- Israel expands its borders

I am not the most versed on Gog-Magog, so I am not sure how different his insight is from what is commonly known and accepted. I suggest watching the video (link above at beginning of this post)

[4EverHis]

Thanks.

I noticed that you mentioned the "hiding His face" passage, a phrase which is only first used near the end of chapter 39 (verse 23 onwards). This brings me to another point: As you may know, scholars such as Arnold Fruchtenbaum and the late David L. Cooper take the view that there are two different events being spoken of in Ezek 38-39. They see Ezek 38-39:16 as dealing with the pre-trib defeat of Russia, but they see v. 17 onwards as dealing with the Armageddon scenario and the 2nd worldwide regathering of the Jews (the "1st" being the one in 1948 and the 2nd occurring at Christ's return to earth). So, to clarify, am I right in thinking that you'd argue against them and say that all of Ezek 38-39 is dealing with events prior to the trib? I ask because in the context of the verses which deal with God no longer hiding His face, Ezekiel speaks of God having mercy upon the WHOLE house of Israel (v.25), and also of His regathering of ALL Jews back to their land (v. 28).

Ezekiel 38-39 is one continual- unbroken narrative by God. Ezekiel 38 and Armageddon are two completely different events, at two completely different times, different participants, and most importantly, God has two completely different purposes for them. As for the verses 25 & 28, lets read them in full context:
Ezekiel 39:22-29
22.So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.
23.And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24.According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25.Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26.After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27.When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28.Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29.Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

God is simply summarizing His History with His people, revealing that He is once more with them fully. He no longer is "hiding His Face" from them, as He has over the centuries. Vs. 25 that your referring to, in context, is God speaking to that history, and has "mercy" on the "whole house of Israel" when He "brings them into captivity". Vs. 28 is the summation of that history, He is responsible for bring them back to His land, after they were in captivity. He makes that same historical reference in Ezekiel 38:8. He is telling us this, as a point of reference in time.

[4EverHis]

erok2020
- Left over weapons to provide all the energy for Israel of seven years
Yes
- Professional hired to clear battlefield; bury the dead downwind east of the Dead Sea
Israel already has in place, "professionals" that gather the dead
- Yemen and Saudi Arabia are only spectators in the battle
Yes
- In addition to Magog and Israel, a third party is involved - could it be the USA? (Ez 39:6)
Isaiah 17 precedes the Ezekiel invasion, and Israel fights it alone, the U.S. doesnt help, no one does
- All of this to happen after the rapture
Yes

Question: Why is there no mention of Israel's immediate neighbors?? Where Lebanese, Iraqis, Egyptians, Saudis, Palestinians, etc. Why are they not mentioned in 38-39?
Ezekiel 25-32, Gods Judgment correlating with Isaiah 17
The world is in for a big surprise! Is there an overlooked event preceding Ezekiel?
Not a surprise :) God tells us in His Word, Isaiah 17 fulfilled.
Psalm 83: Enemies hate God - confederate enemy is Islam. Psalm is referring to another group of enemy (other than Ezekiel)
Psalm 83 is talk of conspiracy, not war, but talk no action, followed by a Prayer. The enemy nations surrounding Israel, have been conspiring towards her destruction for centuries. Isaiah 17 is Gods answer to that Prayer
The Prayer
Psalm 83:13
13. O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.
The Prayer Answered
Isaiah 17:13
13. The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

Ezek 25-32..judgment on seven nations.. what do they have in common? Muslims! Its misleading to call them Arabs...they are muslims.

Yes, His Judgment is surely coming
Order of Events:
- War starts with confederacy - Isaiah 17
- Title regained "My people Israel" - ? God fully restores His Covenant with His People in Ezekiel 38
- Israel decisively defeats the confederacy - Yes, Israel will win the Isaiah 17 multiple fronted war, but suffer great, great losses. God tells us He allows them to will barely survive.
- Israel becomes exceedingly great army - Israel already has this "exceedingly great army", and it wont be by the end of Isaiah 17. They will be spent. :sad
- Israel takes prisoners of war - Yes, they will
- Region is reshaped- After Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 25-32, the region will be devastated.
- Israel expands its borders - In Isaiah 17, God only speaks of one country that Israel will be involved with as far as partially occupying another nation, and that is Jordan in Isaiah 17:2. No where within the context, does He say anything about Israel being any kind of conquerors, settling in multiple other nations after the battle, which if it were to be, He would say it and He doesnt.

[james46888]

Ezekiel 38 and Armageddon are two completely different events, at two completely different times, different participants, and most importantly, God has two completely different purposes for them.

Agreed, but just to clarify, then, do you feel the same is true of Ezek 39 in that is only dealing the pre-trib Magog invasion and has nothing to say about the tribulation? I assume you do feel that, since you also say, "Ezekiel 38-39 is one continual- unbroken narrative by God." I think the point Fruchtenbaum and Cooper would make is that since Ezek 39:9-16 deals with the 7-years burning and 7-months burial following the pre-trib Magog invasion, this therefore means that verse 17 and onwards must be dealing with events that happen sometime after that 7-year period of burning the weapons.



Vs. 25 that your referring to, in context, is God speaking to that history, and has "mercy" on the "whole house of Israel" when He "brings them into captivity". Vs. 28 is the summation of that history, He is responsible for bring them back to His land, after they were in captivity. He makes that same historical reference in Ezekiel 38:8. He is telling us this, as a point of reference in time.

Agreed that Ezek 38:8 is dealing with the regathering of Israel which occurred in 1948 (an event that was a pre-requisite to the Magog invasion of course), but Ezek 39:28 speaks of every Jew returning to the land, which is something that did not occur in 1948 but will occur in conjunction with the 2nd Coming. Hope that I'm understanding your point correctly.

[Jesusforever]

There is a war with Iran that is predicted to come that results in the complete destruction of Iran. It is discussed in Ezekiel 38, 39. HOWEVER!, it is described as Iran (Persia) attacking Israel after Israel is living peacefully, having recovered from a war itself, and living without walls or gates.

Eze 38:8
After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.


You could hardly describe Israel today as living peacefully. They are constantly threatened by suicide bombers, rockets, Hezbollah, Syria, etc. The Israeli government has built fences on her northern border, fences along the green line that separates the Palestinian areas from Israel proper, and fences around the Jewish settlements within Palestinian areas. This is not an Israel described in Exekiel 38. Also, neither Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon or the Palestinians are described to attack Israel along with Iran. The absence of these nations along with the peace and safety Israel enjoys could be explained in the verse above: "you will invade a land that has recovered from war".

Does Israel go to war BEFORE fighting Iran??
Psalm 83
“O God, do not keep silent; be not quiet, O God, be not still. See how your enemies are astir, how your foes rear their heads. With cunning they conspire against your people; they plot against those you cherish. ‘Come,’ they say, ‘let us destroy them as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more.’ With one mind they plot together; they form an alliance against you—the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, of Moab and the Hagrites, Gebal, Ammon and Amalek, Philistia, with the people of Tyre. Even Assyria has joined them to lend strength to the descendants of Lot. Selah

Do to them as you did to Midian, as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon, who perished at Endor and became like refuse on the ground. Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb, all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna, who said, ‘Let us take possession of the pasturelands of God.’

Make them like tumbleweed, O my God, like chaff before the wind. As fire consumes the forest or a flame sets the mountains ablaze, so pursue them with your tempest and terrify them with your storm. Cover their faces with shame so that men will seek your name, O LORD. May they ever be ashamed and dismayed; may they perish in disgrace. Let them know that you, whose name is the LORD—that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.”

The nations described correspond to modern day Palestinians, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. Notice how in the prayer of the Psalmist, he asks for them to be made like a tumbleweed and chaff in the wind. This comes up again in Isaiah.

Isaiah 17
“An oracle concerning Damascus: ‘See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins. The cities of Aroer will be deserted and left to flocks, which will lie down, with no one to make them afraid. The fortified city will disappear from Ephraim, and royal power from Damascus; the remnant of Aram will be like the glory of the Israelites,’ declares the LORD Almighty. ‘In that day the glory of Jacob will fade; the fat of his body will waste away. It will be as when a reaper gathers the standing grain and harvests the grain with his arm—as when a man gleans heads of grain in the Valley of Rephaim. Yet some gleanings will remain, as when an olive tree is beaten, leaving two or three olives on the topmost branches, four or five on the fruitful boughs,’ declares the LORD, the God of Israel.

In that day men will look to their Maker and turn their eyes to the Holy One of Israel. They will not look to the altars, the work of their hands, and they will have no regard for the Asherah poles and the incense altars their fingers have made. In that day their strong cities, which they left because of the Israelites, will be like places abandoned to thickets and undergrowth. And all will be desolation.

You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. Therefore, though you set out the finest plants and plant imported vines, though on the day you set them out, you make them grow, and on the morning when you plant them, you bring them to bud, yet the harvest will be as nothing in the day of disease and incurable pain.

Oh, the raging of many nations—they rage like the raging sea! Oh, the uproar of the peoples—they roar like the roaring of great waters! Although the peoples roar like the roar of surging waters, when he rebukes them they flee far away, driven before the wind like chaff on the hills, like tumbleweed before a gale. In the evening, sudden terror! Before the morning, they are gone! This is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us.”

The ancient tribe of Ephraim was given the land that is now occupied by the Palestinians. Aram is the Hebrew name for Syria. Aroer is in Jordan. So the names might be different than in Psalms, but the areas described are the same!

The city of Damascus is destroyed in one evening, most likely from a nuclear bomb from Israel. Those areas not completely destroyed have a spiritual revival and turn to God. This could be the reason these nations aren't included in the following war described in Ezekiel 38. And could also be the reason Israel is living peacefully for a time, having just recovered from war.


So in conclusion, don't look for a war with Iran in the near future. At least one of any significance. There might be some precision strikes, but no regime change or full on WW3. Not yet... First look for a war with Syria, Lebanon, the Palestinians and portions of Jordan.

[RobertB]

There is a war with Iran that is predicted to come that results in the complete destruction of Iran. It is discussed in Ezekiel 38, 39. HOWEVER!, it is described as Iran (Persia) attacking Israel after Israel is living peacefully, having recovered from a war itself, and living without walls or gates.

Eze 38:8
After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.


You could hardly describe Israel today as living peacefully. They are constantly threatened by suicide bombers, rockets, Hezbollah, Syria, etc. The Israeli government has built fences on her northern border, fences along the green line that separates the Palestinian areas from Israel proper, and fences around the Jewish settlements within Palestinian areas. This is not an Israel described in Exekiel 38. Also, neither Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon or the Palestinians are described to attack Israel along with Iran. The absence of these nations along with the peace and safety Israel enjoys could be explained in the verse above: "you will invade a land that has recovered from war".

Does Israel go to war BEFORE fighting Iran??
Psalm 83
“O God, do not keep silent; be not quiet, O God, be not still. See how your enemies are astir, how your foes rear their heads. With cunning they conspire against your people; they plot against those you cherish. ‘Come,’ they say, ‘let us destroy them as a nation, that the name of Israel be remembered no more.’ With one mind they plot together; they form an alliance against you—the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, of Moab and the Hagrites, Gebal, Ammon and Amalek, Philistia, with the people of Tyre. Even Assyria has joined them to lend strength to the descendants of Lot. Selah

Do to them as you did to Midian, as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon, who perished at Endor and became like refuse on the ground. Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb, all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna, who said, ‘Let us take possession of the pasturelands of God.’

Make them like tumbleweed, O my God, like chaff before the wind. As fire consumes the forest or a flame sets the mountains ablaze, so pursue them with your tempest and terrify them with your storm. Cover their faces with shame so that men will seek your name, O LORD. May they ever be ashamed and dismayed; may they perish in disgrace. Let them know that you, whose name is the LORD—that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.”

The nations described correspond to modern day Palestinians, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. Notice how in the prayer of the Psalmist, he asks for them to be made like a tumbleweed and chaff in the wind. This comes up again in Isaiah.

Isaiah 17
“An oracle concerning Damascus: ‘See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins. The cities of Aroer will be deserted and left to flocks, which will lie down, with no one to make them afraid. The fortified city will disappear from Ephraim, and royal power from Damascus; the remnant of Aram will be like the glory of the Israelites,’ declares the LORD Almighty. ‘In that day the glory of Jacob will fade; the fat of his body will waste away. It will be as when a reaper gathers the standing grain and harvests the grain with his arm—as when a man gleans heads of grain in the Valley of Rephaim. Yet some gleanings will remain, as when an olive tree is beaten, leaving two or three olives on the topmost branches, four or five on the fruitful boughs,’ declares the LORD, the God of Israel.

In that day men will look to their Maker and turn their eyes to the Holy One of Israel. They will not look to the altars, the work of their hands, and they will have no regard for the Asherah poles and the incense altars their fingers have made. In that day their strong cities, which they left because of the Israelites, will be like places abandoned to thickets and undergrowth. And all will be desolation.

You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. Therefore, though you set out the finest plants and plant imported vines, though on the day you set them out, you make them grow, and on the morning when you plant them, you bring them to bud, yet the harvest will be as nothing in the day of disease and incurable pain.

Oh, the raging of many nations—they rage like the raging sea! Oh, the uproar of the peoples—they roar like the roaring of great waters! Although the peoples roar like the roar of surging waters, when he rebukes them they flee far away, driven before the wind like chaff on the hills, like tumbleweed before a gale. In the evening, sudden terror! Before the morning, they are gone! This is the portion of those who loot us, the lot of those who plunder us.”

The ancient tribe of Ephraim was given the land that is now occupied by the Palestinians. Aram is the Hebrew name for Syria. Aroer is in Jordan. So the names might be different than in Psalms, but the areas described are the same!

The city of Damascus is destroyed in one evening, most likely from a nuclear bomb from Israel. Those areas not completely destroyed have a spiritual revival and turn to God. This could be the reason these nations aren't included in the following war described in Ezekiel 38. And could also be the reason Israel is living peacefully for a time, having just recovered from war.


So in conclusion, don't look for a war with Iran in the near future. At least one of any significance. There might be some precision strikes, but no regime change or full on WW3. Not yet... First look for a war with Syria, Lebanon, the Palestinians and portions of Jordan.

The Psalm 83 possibilities/scenario has been debated/discussed ad nauseam on this forum, as well as differing observations about the Ezekiel and Isaiah prophecies.

[Jesusforever]

then why is everyone worried to death about Iran then?? Israel is not living peacefully and without bars or gates so don't worry about Iran right now.

yes, there might be specific surgical strikes, but don't think this is going to explode into WW3. The Lord has other plans!