The Will

[BlessedinHim]

Could there be 4 wills?????

Self-will
Free-will
God's perfect-will
God's allowed-will

Self-will

Titus 1 (King James Version)
5For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;

9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.



II Peter 2:9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.


You know, the only actual freewill I see in the bible is freewill offerings.

So then, the next question is: Is freewill just a word to describe a principal in the bible as the rapture is or is it not there at all? I contend that it is there in principal as rapture is there in principal.

freewill definition
adj.
Done of one's own accord; voluntary.

free will definition
n.
1. The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will.
2. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.

googling came up with this, it is a very good article:http://www.mbrem.com/calvinism/free-wil.htm

God's perfect-will

This article explains God's will:http://www.gotquestions.org/Gods-will.html

[TheWorkman]

Concering God, Dr. Fruchtenbaum explains His will as follows..


God’s decretive will is that which God has willed to come to pass through either His decrees, or His sovereignty, and His predestination. In this case, whatever He has decreed to come to pass will definitely come to pass; nothing can keep it from coming to pass.

His efficacious will is perhaps only a facet of His decretive will; but it emphasizes the fact that God will effect or cause those things He wills to come to pass. In both the decretive and efficacious wills, God is directly responsible for causing His will to come to pass.

As to God’s permissive will, this is something God allows to come to pass, even though it may be contrary to His moral will. The entrance of sin falls into the realm of God’s permissive will. This would be something He permits to happen but did not effectively or efficaciously cause to happen; therefore, He is not directly responsible.

[BlessedinHim]

:feedback

[HeIsEnough]

So then, the next question is: Is freewill just a word to describe a principal in the bible as the rapture is or is it not there at all? I contend that it is there in principal as rapture is there in principal.


:hat

I'm not sure of the difference between self and free. The word used for "selfwilled" in that scripture is in line with self-pleasing or arrogant. Perhaps it is more signifying an attitude behind a mans will?

[BlessedinHim]

something I learned lately about the will: volition We have some choices, just our choices do not thwart Gods major plan.

I am still trying to understand how calvinism can think we have no will at all. If we have no will at all, then we cant be responsible for what we do. We have to be allowed some choices to be held accountable to and for.

[Saved by Grace_06]

If we have no will at all, then we cant be responsible for what we do. We have to be allowed some choices to be held accountable to and for.


The Apostle Paul already knew you'd ask your question in Romans 9:19..."You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"

The answer isn't that you do not have a will, but rather man's will is enslaved to sin and therefore he chooses bad. He isn't forced to choose bad, nor is he made to do that. He chooses bad because he wants to choose bad. Man isn't a poor helpless victim here, but an evil and willingly disobedient self glorifying jerk that takes God's goodness for weakness and says, "not your will be done, but mine!" He deserves the wrath of God. Man is like Joseph's brothers in Gen 37:4. Note what it says:

"But when his brothers saw that their father loved him more than all his brothers, they hated him and could not speak peacefully to him."

Joseph's brother's inablity to speak good of their brother wasn't physical, but moral - they "Choose" Not to do so, because they hated him so much. Likewise, men Cannot come to Christ, because they Will Not come to Christ. And, they will not come to Christ, because they HATE Him. The man who loves sin, i.e., all of us, cannot love a Holy God, because he will not! There is nothing stopping man from coming to the Savior but his own freewill NOT to come. And since he chooses not to come when he should and when it is commanded, he is guilty and therefore is punished. Those who come do so by grace and God gives grace to those he chooses to have mercy on. All have sinned, all go their own way, none love God, all have turn aside and become worthless, none fear God, etc., etc. The fact that any come to Christ is all due to God's grace. Thats why any Christian exist - because God did more than just show himself, he gave us eyes to see. When we saw him, we hated him because we were sinful and he is Holy. After we came to see him, God did a heart trasplant by taking out the old stony heart and gave us a heart of flesh, and then with our new heart we were able to love his holiness and began to esteem him as precious. All of salvation is grace and is owing to God alone and none of us. It is he who saves, keeps, and finally presents us holy and blameless in eternity future.



OK guys, I'm gone again. Hi Liss! Bless u sis!

[HeIsEnough]

The Apostle Paul already knew you'd ask your question in Romans 9:19..."You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"

You keep providing this as an example of your theology. However, cherry picking scripture in this manner lends to bad theology.

Romans 9 in context:


Romans 9

God's Sovereign Choice
1I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit— 2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised![a] Amen.

6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son."[c]

10Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—[B]in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger."[d] 13Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."[e]

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."[f] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."[g] 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "[h] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25As he says in Hosea:
"I will call them 'my people' who are not my people;
and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"[i] 26and,
"It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
'You are not my people,'
they will be called 'sons of the living God.' "[j]

27Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:
"Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
28For the Lord will carry out
his sentence on earth with speed and finality."[k]

29It is just as Isaiah said previously:
"Unless the Lord Almighty
had left us descendants,
we would have become like Sodom,
we would have been like Gomorrah."[l]

Israel's Unbelief

30What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33As it is written:
"See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."[m]

The Lords purpose in election, that is taking man's right to question or hold the Lord to task out of the equation, Israel could not rely on their natural rights as children of Abraham for the sole right to their inheritance.

It does not, and God has declared in many places that it will not, be dependent upon mans effort (works), but by the will of God (grace).

The will of God, is to believe in His Son.

Israel did not accept God's salvation, they (as a determining whole, not all) chose the old wine, which is not pursuing God by faith, but by law, the Law of Moses.

Quit using this scripture out of context. It doesn't mean what you think it does.