Rob Bell, the ear tickler!!!

[Benjamin]

#10 on the list of 50 most influential Christians by Time or whatever, he is unbiblical, here is some evidence:

WayoftheMaster radio does a video rebuttal of Rob Bell's 'Bullhorn' video: http://godsreal.org/?p=72

The egalatarian problem of Mars Hill: http://godsreal.org/?p=71

[BlessedinHim]

There is a whole thread in here about him, it got locked up. but you can still read it, just look through the old threads. or, I could find it real easy and post here. Here it is:http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=3258

[grape on the vine]

I don't think Mr. Bell was at all coming against Mr. Freil's approach at all, which kind of makes me think that he completely missed the point of the Bullhorn video. Bell is saying that we're all catching heat for those who have one agenda, one mindset, and tunnel vision. He's coming against the attitude that people are projects, and should be made converts rather than disciples (which requires a relationship in which one can cry on our shoulders if need be).
Bell is not at all saying that we don't need to repent. He's critiquing the way we approach such things. He's saying that in all things, even in confronting people with their sin, we must do so in love. Bell's example was the woman caught in adultery. In this situation, even Jesus Himself said He didn't condemn her. He loved her enough to save her life that day, even though she fully deserved death. Perhaps we should put away the business of condemning as well.
What kind of disciples is made out of fear anyway? Is that how Jesus gathered His disciples? Did He ever approach someone this way individually?
We by no means should avoid this subject, but we should definitely be very careful in how.
Freil says that loving someone involves examining their lives in order to show them hope. I don't agree. If someone approached me in such a way, I would become incredibly defensive and I know a lot of other people would to. That's crass and judgmental. And please save the examples that he provided in his video, because I don't believe for a second that he didn't know any of those guys. Call me a skeptic, but I'm not convinced. It's too easy to deceive in such formats.

And honestly, I'm all for getting rid of the stereotypes that paint Christians in a judgmental/angry/unloving/conversion-minded way. It's disgusting and embarrassing.

Things I did not say:
Freil was wrong.
We should not approach people's sin.
Repentance is not necessary for salvation.

Flame on.

[JohnnyHye]

I walk by guys in NY City all the time who stand on crowded street corners and preach the Gospel. They yell and shout and cause a commotion to get attention. They approach people and hand out tracts and pamphlets like some of the cults or porn pushers do. They scream, warning of the ****ation that the lost will face if they don't come to Christ.

I always look at that and say to myself, "That's not for me." I don't care for that approach. I think in a sense they are putting themselves on par with the people who are pushing the meaningless stuff like porn or new age or cults or merchandise, and in the eyes of the passerby they are reducing their message to be on par with those items. I also feel it somewhat cheapens the message.

That being said, while I'd air my opinion with other Christians in this kind of forum or at Church, I would never make a video for all the internet to see, and publish it on a slick website, which criticizes any of these "bullhorn guys" in any way. They are our brothers in Christ, and if they are finding success on the streets, then good for them. If it's not for me, that's between me and the Lord, but why should I criticize these guys? They are serving the Lord, even if my opinion is that they aren't taking the best approach, or even a good approach.

I think Rob Bell is pompous and full of himself to the point he wants to be "Hey, I'm Mr. cool hipster Christian, not like the old fuddy-duddy hell and brimstone bummer Christian, I'm slick with web pages and graphics and cool books that I sell for money, cuz I'm a Christian money-makin business guy who is hip and EDGY Yo! For real Yo! Buy my books! Buy my T-shirts to help spread the Gospel and still be Cool yo!"

Please, get over yourself, and stop belittling the bullhorn guy, Mr. Pompous. If he's your brother in Christ then you should back off, even if you don't like his bullhorn method. Shame on Rob Bell.

It's a shame, because some of what I've seen of him is actually very good and communicates a good message very well. But that mockery of the bullhorn guy pretty much says it all, and defeats the purpose of the good stuff he does. And, in my opinion, so does making a profitable business out of sharing the Gospel and helping Christians grow. People who make money off that are dubious at the least.

[grape on the vine]

I walk by guys in NY City all the time who stand on crowded street corners and preach the Gospel. They yell and shout and cause a commotion to get attention. They approach people and hand out tracts and pamphlets like some of the cults or porn pushers do. They scream, warning of the ****ation that the lost will face if they don't come to Christ.

I always look at that and say to myself, "That's not for me." I don't care for that approach. I think in a sense they are putting themselves on par with the people who are pushing the meaningless stuff like porn or new age or cults or merchandise, and in the eyes of the passerby they are reducing their message to be on par with those items. I also feel it somewhat cheapens the message.

That being said, while I'd air my opinion with other Christians in this kind of forum or at Church, I would never make a video for all the internet to see, and publish it on a slick website, which criticizes any of these "bullhorn guys" in any way. They are our brothers in Christ, and if they are finding success on the streets, then good for them. If it's not for me, that's between me and the Lord, but why should I criticize these guys? They are serving the Lord, even if my opinion is that they aren't taking the best approach, or even a good approach.

I think Rob Bell is pompous and full of himself to the point he wants to be "Hey, I'm Mr. cool hipster Christian, not like the old fuddy-duddy hell and brimstone bummer Christian, I'm slick with web pages and graphics and cool books that I sell for money, cuz I'm a Christian money-makin business guy who is hip and EDGY Yo! For real Yo! Buy my books! Buy my T-shirts to help spread the Gospel and still be Cool yo!"

Please, get over yourself, and stop belittling the bullhorn guy, Mr. Pompous. If he's your brother in Christ then you should back off, even if you don't like his bullhorn method. Shame on Rob Bell.

It's a shame, because some of what I've seen of him is actually very good and communicates a good message very well. But that mockery of the bullhorn guy pretty much says it all, and defeats the purpose of the good stuff he does. And, in my opinion, so does making a profitable business out of sharing the Gospel and helping Christians grow. People who make money off that are dubious at the least.
I think your characterization of Bell is way off, but that might just be two different opinions on the matter.

What do you say to Feil's rebuttal to Bell? Do you view it in the same light as Bell's "mockery" (the wrong designation in my opinion) of Bullhorn Guy?

[JohnnyHye]

I think your characterization of Bell is way off, but that might just be two different opinions on the matter.

What do you say to Feil's rebuttal to Bell? Do you view it in the same light as Bell's "mockery" (the wrong designation in my opinion) of Bullhorn Guy?

I don't think Feil actually rebutted the point that Bell was making, but he came close. I think he was rebutting the point that he thought Bell was making. I wasn't offended by Friel's but I don't remember it that well, it's been a while.

I don't like Bell though, he is that "hipster" wannabe type. His web page "nooma" -COME ON... Give me a break. He took the term "pneuma" and made it "hip" and "edgy". Wow! Cool dude!!! AWESOME!!!! Check out these tunes dude, buy my tunes yo! AWESOME!!! I love you bro!!!! :lol2

PLEASE. Hey Bell, put down the hipster act. We're all sick of it, and it is so LAME. Get over yourself, stunad. Don't talk for me as a Christian as you presume to do in your weak video.

I want nothing to do with that guy.

[Sing4Him]

Things I did not say:
Freil was wrong.
We should not approach people's sin.
Repentance is not necessary for salvation.

Flame on.

Grapes! :hug :pound:pound

Now.. per above you DO say repentance IS necessary and yes we are sinners. VIOLA! Yes.. we need Jesus' forgiveness of the above I and acceptance of Him as Lord and Savior

Yah? Yah.

O.k... now regarding Bell:

He does NOT preach that we a sinners, needing to repent and ask Jesus to be our Lord and Savior for eternal life.

He preaches, "Christ Following" as you and I have INDEPTH discussed in the "Apostates" thread.

Bell Preaches "Kingdom Now Theology"

This is non scriptural as Jesus' Kingdom will not happen until His millenial reign.

Bell is an apostate. He is a deceiver of men.

Grapes, you KNOW this now! You do!
Please look hard and hold it up against what the Bible says.

I know you see this.....

[WhitemoonG]

Johnny muh man, I couldn't agree with you more about this Rob Bell dude, Dude!

Ya nailed it. No I've never met the guy, but his "sermons," NOOMA videos, and his book "Velvet Elvis" all reek with an attitude of self aggrandizement and parochial imparting of his insights.


Bell was once away on vacation from his Mars Hill "Church," and to whom did he entrust his pulpit while away? Some far out lady advocate and spokesman for the mystic/spiritualistic occultic stuff called Reikki sp?

Now, dare I ask what in the world kind of "pastor" turns his pulpit over to that garbage?

In Christianity today in the fall of 2004, Bell is quoted as saying that he not only wants to present a newer, more exciting method or approach to Christianity, he wants to completely REDEFINE it! Those might sound a bit like blah blah mundane words, but consider for a minute the STAGGERING implications of what Bell is spouting! His wife was also quoted as saying that she used to believe that we had certain pillars of truth as the basis for our Christian faith, but that she "now realizes that we really can't be sure about much of anything!"

Vintage Emergentspeak! But to these types, that's the exciting thing, the exciting uncertainty, mystery, the mystique/mysticism! Try to pin these types down with probing persistent questions, and it seems the only thing that we might agree as certain is that Jesus is a GOOD EXAMPLE. Real profound and compelling, considering that millions of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. feel the same way!

In his book "Velvet Elvis," in an early chapter Bell seems almost unable to contain his condescending, sneering, smarmy attitude about Christianity, as defined by the core beliefs and defining truths that have been carefully taught and proclaimed and guarded over the centuries by faithful servants of the Lord.

He lumps beliefs in the divinity of Christ, the virgin birth, the Resurrection, the Trinity, etc. as "bricks" , and sneeringly calls the beliefs we have learned and loved
as "Brickianity."


He then proceeds to opine that for a lot of people today, these beliefs and "traditional" Christianity "just don't do it for me anymore." Lots of emphasis on spiritual/biblical epistemology as validated or rejected largely on "what works for me, me me me me me!"

Interesting how lots of this type of recent schtik seems more like belief as mainly THERAPY, in a sort of unending Oprahfest!

Bell then makes a big big deal out of his analogy of most of this Christian Beliefs stuff as being like having a trampoline that has multiple springs. The basic tenets of Christianity, that DEFINE it as unique, are like the springs, and if one or two, or two or three of the basic core tenets of our faith are actually not true, so what, there are other springs still left!

And what matters most is not which springs are still holding up, or that some may be faulty or fail, but HOW WE JUMP and enjoy and LIVE!

Bell is way too mesmerizing and slick to say it point blank, but he basically says that ANY of the core beliefs of Christianity might be wrong, but WHO CARES? What's true or untrue, or what we believe or don't believe is far
less important that how we LIVE!

Regarding the virgin birth of Christ (without which Christ isn't truly Christ!), Bell says something like "suppose some guy over in the middle east was named Larry, and Jesus had his DNA, and therefore there wasn't really a virgin birth," (paraphrasing him) , why would that really matter regarding how we JUMP on the trampoline and LIVE?

He later has a whole chapter devoted to the Charge from Jesus to Peter and the apostles in Matthew 16 over their designation as authorized to "bind" and "loose" , and twists that into some convenient slant saying that what it "really means" is that you and I and anybody are free to re-interpret scripture, (and de facto subtly re-write and re-write it) to be "relevant" to the times, to make it a molding, evolving, changing, adapting Bible, that "breathes," to meet the unique needs of today, etc.

Namely, scripture can be made to mean just about ANYTHING, OR NOTHING.

Slippery people like Bell will temporarily confuse with some reassuring blather that they don't believe or intend anything extreme, when that's exactly what they're doing!

Bell also has a chapter about Peter trying to walk on the Sea of Galilee to Jesus, and when he sank, the problem wasn't his faith in the Lord, his problem actually was he didn't have any faith IN HIMSELF! Bell says stuff like "God has faith in you Peter, so why can't you have faith in yourself if God does?"

Such humanistic self oriented TRIPE!

Bell also states some nauseating surrealistic twaddle about Salvation being God's spiritual unification and merging with creation!

Is this what the Phillipian Jailer was told in Acts 16? Can anybody provide me a source with Bell asserting that Salvation is found by grace and faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, and his Resurrection? (Other than a most general, oblique hint of something along those lines, which is almost certainly intentionally slippery for confusing effect?)


Bell is also a smarmy FRAUD. In his book, "Velvet Elvis," he relates how some amazing things occurred leading to his current position at Mars Hill, in Grand Rapids Michigan, "one of the fastest growing churches in history.. blah blah....." He relates being in another state, and wondering about what he and his wife would be best doing next, etc. and then becoming excited about thinking that he should go to Michigan to hold forth there with a new church. He describes how he got mad when a couple of days before he was to start, he saw someone put up a small sign advertising the new church's 1st service. He insisted they take the sign down immediately, describing how he felt that if God was into this, people would come without notice or "advertising." He describes how he went to the new church the 1st Sunday literally not sure if there would be a hundred people, or just 10, or maybe two or three, and that he was staggered, amazed, encouraged to find a THOUSAND people there the 1st Sunday, and how it grew very rapidly into muliple thousands each Sunday, and that this thing he was doing was clearly a God's happenin' place and phenomenon. etc. etc. etc.

Granted, there are understandable challenges and perhaps self doubts that pastors must face, particularly when starting,

but I think it quite relevant, and REVEALING about Bell to learn what he DOESN'T INCLUDE in his "amazing miracle" commentary.


When Calvary Church in Grand Rapids, very large and thriving for quite a long time, finally felt that it wasn't able to adequately deal with and minister to all its thousands of people, the leadership there felt it would be good and proper and best for the Lord's overall work and ministry to start a new, sister type church on the outskirts of town, and actively encourage many in the Grand Rapids area, including many of their own, to consider changing to become a part of this New Congregation.

And therefore, before Bell arrived, there had already been considerable effort on the part of many faithful individual believers to start up the building, lots of other logistics, with lots of letters and fliers and "advertisements" encouraging people to please go check out this new church about to open on such and such Sunday. Many from the original downtown church who lived far closer to where Mars Hill "Church" was to be, were almost told to just plain go there, if at all possible.

So, granting that the Lord can and does work in and through a variety of means, the great surprise and joy that Bell describes at being shocked to see a 1000 people there and waiting on the 1st Sunday, etc. is completely (and no doubt deliberately) mischaracterized by Bell as to how it came about.

Regardless of the highly refined arrogance that to me this reveals on his part, he certainly doesn't say a durned thing about the hard work and faithfulness of those at Calvary Church to get this up and ready, etc. Unfortunately, this is a common trait of egotistical flamers and frauds.


Bell's new book is "Sex God." That's right, "Sex God!" I saw that the 1st chapter is entitled "God wears lipstick." Some of the advertising prior to it's release includes comments about "God is all, all is sex, sex and God are countlessly interwoven, etc."

Can't wait to read this enlightened, gospel deficient, latest installment of "Christianity Lite!" Me, me, me, me, me Christianity!


Why make a clear, accurate, if I may say so, "doesn't mince words," commentary about this guy?

Sadly, he isn't just a side show curiosity. This guy is all over the place in Christian bookstores, all over the place in young people's "My Space" presentations, referring to what a "refreshing, thought provoking" thing is that "Velvet Elvis" book, one of my favorites, etc.

He is all over the place in young, hip Sunday School classes and youth groups, and is already leading thousands and thousands into excited confusion and later despair and rebellious confusion.

If you don't care to know about Rob Bell, beware what's probably been happening with your precious children and grandchildren! Many dear middle aged and elderly believers are starting to wonder what's the new and at times disturbing stuff their younger ones are yakking about, wondering what's happening in some Christian churches and youth groups and Christian Schools that their young ones are entrusted to.

Keep your discerning eyes open!

May the Lord continue to uphold and strengthen all who carry forth in these challenging days for his precious gospel of saving grace and faith, those who faithfully contend for the faith!

[grape on the vine]

I don't think Feil actually rebutted the point that Bell was making, but he came close. I think he was rebutting the point that he thought Bell was making. I wasn't offended by Friel's but I don't remember it that well, it's been a while.

I don't like Bell though, he is that "hipster" wannabe type. His web page "nooma" -COME ON... Give me a break. He took the term "pneuma" and made it "hip" and "edgy". Wow! Cool dude!!! AWESOME!!!! Check out these tunes dude, buy my tunes yo! AWESOME!!! I love you bro!!!! :lol2

PLEASE. Hey Bell, put down the hipster act. We're all sick of it, and it is so LAME. Get over yourself, stunad. Don't talk for me as a Christian as you presume to do in your weak video.

I want nothing to do with that guy.

Friel actually took shots at Bell, much like you're doing. Which... I guess I don't understand. Wanna shed some light on that? If possible, with a little less name calling or making fun?

Anyway, I agree with your take on Friel's rebuttal. I think he missed the point.


And... what tunes? Is Bell in a band too?

[grape on the vine]

O.k... now regarding Bell:

He does NOT preach that we a sinners, needing to repent and ask Jesus to be our Lord and Savior for eternal life.
Please submit a quote or writing directly from Bell saying this. Or, if he's replacing this with something, please provide that, again, directly from Bell.

He preaches, "Christ Following" as you and I have INDEPTH discussed in the "Apostates" thread.
I'm for this.

Bell Preaches "Kingdom Now Theology"

This is non scriptural as Jesus' Kingdom will not happen until His millenial reign.
If this is what I think it is, I believe it too. And I don't believe in the Millenial Kingdom. At least not in the sense that I believe most on this board do. But this is for another thread.

Bell is an apostate. He is a deceiver of men.

Grapes, you KNOW this now! You do!
Please look hard and hold it up against what the Bible says.

I know you see this.....
I hold it against the Bible. That's why I believe it. This is not something I follow blindly my friend. Trust me, I'm working this out- usually with all kinds of fear and trembling. Following Jesus is a very scary thing at times.