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July 29th, 2007, 06:26 AM
Can you please provide proof that Branham never told anyone to take notice of the pyramids and astrology?

Here's the oft quoted "God wrote three Bibles" comment in full:

A Paradox, 1964 (recorded sermon)
I believe God wrote three Bibles. He wrote one in the skies, which is the zodiac. Anybody knows that. Job spoke of it. What? Look at the zodiac. It starts off with the virgin. It ends up with Leo the lion. That's how He come, first with a virgin. His last, next coming, will be Leo the lion, see, coming as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. And all, then, the crossed fishes, of what we're in now, the cancer age, and everything, it all speaks. But, forget it. See? That ain't your Bible. Then, the pyramids, exactly how they were drawed, the headstone was rejected. Still, that's not your Bible. Then, God wrote It on Words.

BTW, I think I'd look into Kurt E. Koch and the mysterious "Ruff" a little more closely. Koch finds demons lurking in every nook and cranny ... and of course the half billion Pentecostal/charismatic Christians are riddled with them. But he has made up some nice prayers to recite, and if you say them while sprinkling the person with water three times, they should go away. Gotta love the guy!

I'm surprised you haven't come across the names of the constellations in the book of Job. An interesting study when you get the time. You could start with Job 9:9 and Job 38:31-33. I don't know astronomy that well but I do think Venus (the morning and the evening star) has a special significance in that Jesus Christ is both Alpha and Omega (Rev 22:16). In my view, the Bible and astronomy are both of God; astrology is of the devil ... some people get confused about the difference between astronomy and astrology.

Whether Job gave the constellations their names, I do not know. That Job names some of them in his writing is agreed on by a number of Bible commentators. I'm not a fan of Wikipedia usually, but they have a short, interesting article on mazzaroth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazzaroth). (Job 38:32)

July 29th, 2007, 06:57 AM
Here is a good book (http://www.lighthousetrails.com/osr.htm) on Latter Rain false doctrines:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q193/crinie123/river.jpg (http://www.lighthousetrails.com/osr.htm)

The Other Side of the River (http://www.lighthousetrails.com/osr.htm)

A compelling and deeply personal account of a young man's spiritual plunge into a movement called the "River." Sometimes referred to as the River Revival, the Third Wave or the Latter Rain, this movement is marked by bizarre manifestations, false prophecies and esoteric revelations. Warnings of divine retribution hold many adherents in a bondage of fear, making them afraid to speak out or even question those things they are taught and are witness to.

In a biographical setting, The Other Side of the River, is a powerful and needed warning to the body of Christ. In a day and age when church-growth techniques mixed with mystical practices are leaving a wreckage of human lives littered with the debris of false doctrine.

This book is a "must read" (http://www.amazon.com/Other-Side-River-Kevin-Reeves/dp/0979131502/ref=sr_1_2/105-9546389-4923661?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185706427&sr=1-2) for anyone who has come to their senses within an apostate church and wondered what to do and how to do it. The Bible is clear that we are to mark and avoid false teachers (Rom. 16:17) and separate ourselves from those involved in sin (1 Cor. 6:17) while continuing to pray for them. But the issue of rejecting heresy and false prophesy becomes a matter of personal fortitude and deep emotional hurts when it involves close friends who have been brainwashed by "the river".

My testimony is similar to Kevin's (http://www.amazon.com/Other-Side-River-Kevin-Reeves/dp/0979131502/ref=sr_1_2/105-9546389-4923661?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185706427&sr=1-2) in certain ways, though the Lord saved me from deep involvement in the Third Wave. I lost a number of close personal friends when I found myself in the position of either obeying the Lord and His Word or coming to consensus with men. But the Bible does not give Christians an "option". We are to stand for the truth whenever and wherever it is demanded of us, whether in the world or in the churches. We must stand for unity, but that means we are to put on the unity of the Spirit and strive for unity in the Faith (Eph. 4). When unity of the Faith (unity in the core doctrines as taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles) is not being upheld and taught, then the individual Christian is duty bound to reject that heresy and seek fellowship elsewhere. The Bible is clear that those who obey the Lord prove they love Him, and conversely those who disobey Him prove they do not love Him (John 14:15, 23, 24). We have many choices each day whether or not to obey the Lord. All of us fall down on this account. But we cannot be reconciled to the Lord without (1) repentance of sin and (2) not allowing ourselves into a situation of habitual, continual sin. Staying in a church that is teaching heresy, participating in false prophecy, and promoting false anointings (which are of another spirit) is putting yourself in a position where you are violating both of the above criteria for staying in the love of Christ. Only Jesus Christ can save because of His perfect substitutional salvation He purchased for us with His blood on the cross. But we must repent of our sins and turn to Him, taking up our cross daily and following Him. You cannot follow the Lord while living in habitual sin, and you will not be saved as long as you remain unrepenant. Remember that many will come saying "Lord, Lord" in the end but they will go to hell. They are those who think they will be justified by their many works of doing miracles, prophesying, casting out demons, etc. Today we have a whole generation of Christians who are enamored with works, and defend those they follow by constantly referring to them. But the Lord says this:

Matt. 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

What is the will of the Father? That we obey Jesus Christ. Jesus says we are to reject heretics by marking and avoiding them. The commands of the Lord are simple, but the reality of obedience is not. But we cannot be blessed by the Lord and gain eternal life without obedience.

July 29th, 2007, 09:29 PM
Here is a good book (http://www.lighthousetrails.com/osr.htm) on Latter Rain false doctrines

Sounds good ... personal accounts always make interesting reading.

Discussing different "theologies" and examining them according to the Scriptures, is a helpful exercise. When we arbitrarily associate groups and teachers with this or that theology without carefully examining what has been specifically stated, is decidedly unhelpful.

July 30th, 2007, 05:54 AM
I believe God wrote three Bibles.

Please provide scriptural proof of this. We can believe what we want but in effect - is it the truth? And what does the Bible in effect state if we propagate non-truths?

There are 20 other books mentioned in the Bible, but none of them are referred to as "Bibles":

The Book of the Kings of Israel - 1 Chronicles 9:1; 2 Chronicles 20:34.
The Book of the Prophet Iddo - 2 Chronicles 13:22
The Words of Shemaiah the Prophet - 2 Chronicles 12:15
The Deeds of Uzziah by Isaiah the Prophet - 2 Chronicles 26:22; 2 Chronicles 32:32
The Book of Jehu - 2 Chronicles 20:34
The Record book of Ahasuerus - Esther 2:23; Esther 6:1
The Book of Remembrance - Malachi 3:16
The Book of Life - Daniel 12:1; Philemon 4:3; Revelation 20:11; Revelation 22:19
The Book of Wars - Numbers 21:14
The Book of Jasher - Joshua 10:13
The Chronicles of David - 1 Chronicles 27:24
The Book of the Kings of Israel and Judah - 2 Chronicles 27:7; 2 Chronicles 2 Chronicles 35:27; 2 Chronicles 36:8
The Words of the Kings of Israel - 2 Chronicles 33:18.
The Decree of David the King of Israel - 2 Chronicles 35:4.
The Chronicles of Samuel the Seer - 1 Chronicles 29:29
The Chronicles of Nathan the Prophet - 1 Chronicles 29:29
The Book of Gad - 1 Chronicles 29:29
The Book of Judgment - Daniel 7:10; Revelation 20:12
The seven-sealed book - Revelation 5:1-13.
An angel's book - Revelation 10:2

What Branham was effectively stating was that it's okay for people to read their horrorscopes and look upon the mysticism and magic of the pyramids. It's the same old lie.

He wrote one in the skies, which is the zodiac.

Correction : They are rightly called constellations and the reasons why God created them:

1. To serve as signs to mark the seasons, days, and years Genesis 1:14

2. To give light upon the earth Genesis 1:15-17

3. To rule the day and the night Genesis 1:18 and so bring order to creation

4. To separate light from darkness Genesis 1:18 to distinguish between the two.

5. To declare the glory of God Psalm 19:1-6

6. To reveal His attributes to mankind, and to draw them to call upon Him Romans 1:20; Romans 10:18

7. To stabilise earth's orbit and promote life on it

Anybody knows that. Job spoke of it.

God reminded Job of His greatness by referring to the heavens, stars and constellations and all of creation.

What? Look at the zodiac. It starts off with the virgin. It ends up with Leo the lion. That's how He come, first with a virgin. His last, next coming, will be Leo the lion, see, coming as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. And all, then, the crossed fishes, of what we're in now, the cancer age, and everything, it all speaks. But, forget it. See? That ain't your Bible.

The "zodiac" effectively doesn't start off with the Virgin, but with "Aries" (the ram) and ends not with a lion, but with "Pisces" (the fish) The above is mere speculation and man-made thumb sucking. We are now supposedly in the "Aquarian Age" - the "golden age" - which will bring in an age of "peace" and "understanding". It commenced in 1999. (according to the occultists). It goes without saying that it will eventually morph into the Tribulation period. So much for peace and understanding. It ain't gonna happen. Not until Christ returns.

Then, the pyramids, exactly how they were drawed, the headstone was rejected. Still, that's not your Bible. Then, God wrote It on Words.

Where were they drawn? Where does it state that the headstone of the pyramids was rejected. I know where you can find it though - it's on each and every $1 bill. :-) Scripture and verse please - that the headstone of the pyramid was rejected. If Branham knew where the plans for the pyramids were - he would've been in real demand as there are thousand of people who would want to lay their hands on those!

God tells us to worship Him and to look at Him. Not His creation:
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Romans 1:25

The only reason why Branham's statement (Job naming the Zodiac) cracked me up was because he (Job) had such a hard time with all the tests and trials God brought upon him - losing everything, even his children - and then he gets blamed for naming something that is clearly occultic as well. Poor man. Instead of saying "blame it on the bunny" we can now say "Aw it was Job's fault". :-)

"The other side of the River" - cool book. Highly recommended.

August 1st, 2007, 02:10 AM
What Branham was effectively stating was that it's okay for people to read their horrorscopes and look upon the mysticism and magic of the pyramids.

Actually, he said the exact opposite.

A Paradox, 1964 (recorded sermon)
Look at the zodiac. It starts off with the virgin. It ends up with Leo the lion. That's how He come, first with a virgin. His last, next coming, will be Leo the lion, see, coming as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. And all, then, the crossed fishes, of what we're in now, the cancer age, and everything, it all speaks. But, forget it. See? That ain't your Bible.
Then, the pyramids, exactly how they were drawed, the headstone was rejected. Still, that's not your Bible. Then, God wrote It on Words.

Earnestly Contending, 1956 (recorded sermon)
All fortune telling is of the devil

The Patriach Abraham, 1964 (recorded sermon)
A fortuneteller, anybody knows that fortune-telling is of the devil.

Have Not I Sent Thee, 1962 (recorded sermon)
First time Christ come was through the virgin. Next time He comes is through the lion of the tribe of Juda. The crossed fishes, the cancer age, and all, as you read it through, as Job studied it... And you who read the book of Job, you'll understand. Now, the devil, 'course, takes and does things with that. Then we come back to the next one they call the pyramid teaching. Don't never go after it. You got a Bible to go after.

Job named (mentioned by name) several constellations, including the "mazzaroth" (Job 38:32)

Smith's Bible Dictionary (http://www.searchgodsword.org/dic/sbd/view.cgi?number=T2881)
mazzaroth: the twelve signs.
The margin of the Authorized Version of (Job 38:32) gives Mazzaroth as the name of the twelve signs of the zodiac.

Blue Letter Bible (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H04216&Version=kjv)
Mazzaroth: the 12 signs of the Zodiac and their 36 associated constellations

I believe that horoscopes, and all other forms of fortune telling (tarot cards, runes, ouija boards, etc) are "divination" and must be rejected and avoided by Christians.

Many things in nature - I would say 'all things' - testify concerning the truth of the Bible (eg, resurrection). We can use nature to illustrate Bible truths (Psalm 97:6; Romans 1:20) but we should not build doctrine on nature. Even the structural aspects of some man-made constructions had a spiritual significance (the ark, the temple). Some believe that the seven colours of the rainbow have a spiritual significance, and I am inclined to agree, although I would not be dogmatic about it.

August 1st, 2007, 06:28 AM
The "zodiac" effectively doesn't start off with the Virgin, but with "Aries" (the ram) and ends not with a lion, but with "Pisces" (the fish)

That is just the traditional astrological order.

It is interesting to note that the Jewish calendar has both a sacred and a civil year. The sacred year began at the time of the passover in Egypt, and the first month is Abib/Nisan (March-April).

The civil year begins with Tishri (Sep-Oct) and this is currently year 5767, which they believe dates back to the time of the creation. The first day of 5768 is on our 13 Sep this year.

The University of Illinois (Department of Astronomy) has a good diagram and chart, which shows the sun enters the constellation known as Virgo in mid September here (http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/celsph.html)

August 1st, 2007, 08:42 AM
One of the more positive features of a debate is the chance to see the candidates side by side and having them simultaneously be presented and respond to the issues.

We must be aware, however, that one of the more negative results of a debate is that the “victor” may be determined by his ability to debate & dodge the issues rather than his ability to present solutions to the issues at hand.

In spiritual warfare, it is critically important to remember who our primary enemy is and how he operates. Our primary enemy is not people, their plans, or their behaviors. It is Satan and his forces of evil (Ephesians 6:12). Satan seldom identifies himself and he always uses deception to achieve his objectives.

For reasons to be explained further in detail, luring a Christian into a debate is a satanic trap. Debating appeals to the pride and arrogance of our fallen nature as it affords one the opportunity to show everyone how wise we are and how foolish everyone else is who may hold differing opinions. While leading the Christian to believe that he is fighting the “good fight” (1Timothy 1:18) and exercising his faith via debate, the satanic objective is to cause needless (2Timothy 2:23) divisions and “arguments” (Colossians 2:4) among believers and to use the equal opportunity afforded to him in the debate forum to spread and/or reinforce his false doctrines.

Continued at link:

August 14th, 2007, 05:27 PM
My niece is involved with these people and I seriously question some of their tactics and beliefs.

Berean Girl
August 14th, 2007, 06:18 PM
I believe that they are ecumenical in scope, I will post what I think I may have, let me find it. :wave

Berean Girl
August 14th, 2007, 06:39 PM
They seem to also be endorsing the Emergent heresy.

ALERT: 24-7 Prayer Rooms Increasing in North America

24-7 Prayer, the ministry of Pete Greig (UK author of Red Moon Rising) has announced: "The new 24-7 Prayer Manual has just been published in North America in response to the growing demand of prayer rooms multiplying all over the continent."

Because of the growing popularity of these contemplative/mystical prayer rooms, we are re-posting an article we wrote in October regarding the 24-7 prayer rooms and Greig's book, Red Moon Rising:

Red Moon Rising: How 24-7 Prayer is Awakening a Generation (2003, Relevant Books), by UK author Pete Greig, is becoming an increasingly popular book among Christian youth. Greig is the founder of an international prayer movement called 24-7 Prayer and Boiler Rooms. In a magazine interview with Greig, he explains that his organization is now in over 65 countries and has partnered with groups such as Salvation Army and YWAM and has established "modern day monasteries based on the example of the ancient Celts."

While Greig's book and ministry may, at first glance, appear to be a movement of prayer, research shows that both the book and the movement are heavily influenced by contemplative spirituality and New Age thought. And while youth around the world are taking shifts (to pray) in Greig's boiler rooms (prayer rooms), they may be getting into something entirely different than biblical prayer. If your youth group is considering incorporating Red Moon Rising and 24-7 Prayer into their agenda, a second look may be worthwhile.

Greig tells his readers to look to Brennan Manning's book, Abba's Child, for further reading. It is in Abba's Child that Manning says Dr. Beatrice Bruteau is a "trustworthy guide to contemplative consciousness." Bruteau is the founder of The School for Contemplation and believes God is within every human being. She wrote the book, What We Can Learn from the East :doh :shockedand says:

"We have realized ourselves as the Self that says only I AM, with no predicate following, not "I am a this" or "I have that quality." Only unlimited, absolute I AM"
Also in Manning's book, he says: "[I]f I find Christ, I will find my true self and if I find my true self, I will find Christ." Thomas Merton believed what Bruteau and Manning have stated, that God is already within every human being, we just need to become aware of this. When Greig tells readers to turn to Abba's Child, he is pointing them towards the mystical, panentheistic views of Thomas Merton.

Red Moon Rising instructs readers on lectio divina, but warns readers that their "inner fundamentalist" voice may be telling them this isn't biblical - in actuality that may be the voice of the Holy Spirit. The book cites contemplative proponents like Leonard Sweet, Brian McLaren and Henri Nouwen and talks about a paradigm and cultural shift that is taking place in the world.

On the 24-7 Prayer website, a section called Labyrinths and Liturgy states:

"[I]t's about time we pooled our resources and created a collection of homegrown liturgies, and make them available for anyone out there who wishes to use them in their prayer rooms or as part of their personal rhythm of prayer."
Throughout Greig's site, articles and discussion cover topics such as monks, monasteries, and meditation. One article, titled "The Cross and the Cellar", is written by Morton Kelsey. Kelsey, an Episcopalian priest was a strong advocate for contemplative spirituality and said:

"You can find most of the New Age practices in the depth of Christianity.... I believe that the Holy One lives in every soul (A Time of Departing, p. 67).
In another article Greig says 24-7 Prayer is part of a "global prayer explosion" that includes the Catholic Renewal Movement [this is the same as the Catholic Charismatics - take heed people :scripture], Taize worship, IHOP, and other prayer movements.

The 24-7 Prayer organization has another ministry outlet called "The Order of the Mustard Seed." Based on an 18th century order, participants are asked to take a vow and then wear a specially made ring. When we study the Mustard Seed website a clear picture begins to unfold, that this vow is a vow to be contemplative. Contemplative and occultic concepts, references, quotes, etc. so fill the pages of this site, that it would take much more than this article to describe it's depth of deception. In one Mustard Seed article, Greig states his admiration for Henri Nouwen, saying:

"I am firmly in the Henri Nouwen fan-club, yearning for greater spiritual depth and getting excited about Rhythms and Rules of Life." But these rhythms and rules are filled with mysticism and spiritual darkness. "Rules have been the heartbeat of life for many of those we esteem the most," Greig adds and then lists several contemplatives including Thomas Merton and Mother Teresa(see her address: "Contemplatives in the Heart of the World"). A "Vision Study Guide" gives instruction on the spiritual disciplines including the silence and sacred space.

Unfortunately, as we have shown over the past few years, this "cultural shift" that is occurring within Christendom is one steeped in mysticism and a joining together of all the world's religious traditions. And when Greig talks about his vision for an army of young people who have a "violent reaction to compromised religion," this sounds similar to Erwin McManus' "barbarian way," Teen Mania's "battlecry" and Kids in Ministry's army of children with supernatural proclivities. It is frightening to see a growing trend that sounds more like a preparation for the Crusades than the language of Jesus Christ and the disciples. Couple this with contemplative mysticism, and we may have a combination that will bring about unmentionable results.

For more information:

A 24-7 Prayer room in Vista, California

Directory of 24-7 Prayer Rooms in the US

International House of Prayer (IHOP) Promotes Contemplative Spirituality

This article or excerpt is from Lighthouse Trails on @ 12:01 am.

Website: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com
Category: [Contemplative Spirituality]