Pauline Dispensationalism

[BlessedinHim]

You are so right - we must battle the flesh and crucify it every day. I have had much discussion with someone who truly believes that he is absolutely "perfect" because Scripture says that all scripture is given by inspiration......so that man may be perfect, throughly furnished.... (2 Tim. 3:15-16. But, this person also believes that his "perfection" is the result of what HE does, rather than the result of what CHRIST did on the cross.

The word "perfect" in this passage simply means "mature spiritually", not "perfect" as Christ is perfect. Simple misinterpretation of the context of the passage.

I find much error in the interpretation of the word perfect in the Bible. We can never be "perfect" as God is perfect. Humanly speaking, we can never achieve that level of perfection, not this side of glory. It would be arrogant for me to think I could. Most of the folks who believe in perfection also believe it is because of what they do, rather than what Christ did. We must never lose focus on the fact that our salvation is not about us, but rather about what Christ did.

Many blessings to you.

very true, in my mind, I have come to think that the perfectness he truly wants from us is love. while I dont have a scripture to back that up, I think the principle is there in that it is written that without love/charity all we do is nothing.

1 Corinthians 13:1
[ Love ] If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

1 Corinthians 8:1
Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.


1 Corinthians 13:2
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 Corinthians 13:3
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

1 Corinthians 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1 Corinthians 13:13
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

I guess I do have scriptures. God knows we cant live perfectly here, but I think He wants us to strive to Love as He loves, or else all we do is in vain, or for nothing.

[BlessedinHim]

quoting GodsTrombone: Blessedinhim,

Stanford stated, among other errors, that the church the body of Christ began at Pentecost (Acts 2).

As I have shown from scripture in this thread- that is against what the scripture says.

None of what Christ told Paul about the Body of Christ was known by the apostles in Acts 2. They never preached Paul's message to the Gentiles.


John the Baptist’s, Jesus’, and the Apostles’ Gospel concerned the Messiah and His Kingdom-specifically and repeatedly referred to as “the Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23; 9:35; 24:14; Mark 1:14; Luke 9:2, 6). The other, “the Gospel of the Grace of God, “was neither preached nor mentioned until Paul went forth to declare it (Acts 20:24; Rom. 3:21–28; Eph. 3:1–3).

In my very first post, He indicates that the gospel of grace didnt start until Acts 20:24.

Acts 2:47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Scripture shows, that the church was started in acts 2. There is a transition period and this is the start of that transition.

[BlessedinHim]

I KNOW YOU'RE IN THERE! -- Every honest believer who knows anything about the extensive and all-important Romans Seven experience, realizes that the sins in his Christian life are identical to those of his unsaved life. They are the works of the same indwelling source--the same all-too-familiar characteristics of the person of the first Adam.

They are not the manifestation of some residual sinful habits, left behind by some long-gone, eradicated Adamic source. And they certainly aren't countered and replaced by the development of "good" new habits!

And every honest believer who knows anything about the liberating Romans Eight life, "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (vs. 2), realizes that the righteousness manifested in his Christian life has its source in the indwelling Person of the Last Adam--characteristics of His life, "the fruit of the Spirit."

The nature is the essential character of a person, a life; the quality or qualities that characterize a person. The traits, the composition of attributes, comprise the nature of a man--whether it be the first Adam man, or the Last Adam Man. We have the life of Adam, hence his old sinful nature; we have the Life of the Last Adam, hence His new and divine nature. The Christian has two lives (sources) within, and the manifestation of their natures is the proof thereof.

The most prominent of the present-day eradicationists are the late Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones (via his voluminous writings), Dr. John MacArthur, Dr. David Needham, Dr. Charles Solomon, Dr. John Stott, Dr. Charles Stanley, Dr. Bill Gillham, and Dr. Bob George.

[BlessedinHim]

FURTHER POSITIONAL HISTORY -- Positionally freed from the Adamic life through my death unto sin in the Lord Jesus, the Father was at liberty to identify the essential me with His Son, and in His resurrection I was recreated alive unto the Father in Him. When He arose, as "the beginning of the [new] creation of God" (Rev. 3:14), I arose with Him in "newness of life"--a totally new creation (2 Cor. 5:17).

When the Lord Jesus, now Head of the new creation, the Church, ascended to the right hand of His Father, He took me with Him. The Father, having re-created me in His Son, raised me up and made me sit together in heavenly places in Him. "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:6). Abide above!

I was positionally separated by death via the Cross from the first Adam, to be recreated in union with the Last Adam in His resurrection and ascension. Old Adamic things positionally passed away in the death of Calvary. In my condition, they are (slowly) passing away as I grow spiritually. Actually, finally, they will totally and eternally pass away at my death or at the Rapture--whichever comes first. "Even so, come Lord Jesus"!

There I am in my glorious position, "hidden with Christ in God" (Col. 3:3). In the Lord Jesus, I am accepted in the Beloved, complete in Him, entirely sanctified in Him, perfect in Him. With that position, who can question his unconditional, eternal security?!

All of that, and much more, has been held in spiritual escrow for me ever since the One who is my Life ascended to the right hand of the Father. "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ" (Eph. 1:3).

All had to be completed positionally before a single Christian and the Church could come into being, because Christianity is founded upon and springs from the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. "And ye are complete in Him, who is the Head of all principality and power" (Col. 2:10).

[BlessedinHim]

THE CONDITION FACTOR -- Born into the world in the life and image of the first Adam, I grew up a condemned sinner, "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1). In His foreordained time and purpose the Father called me, and by His grace and the Spirit's conviction of sin, I responded in unconditional faith--responsibly accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as my own Saviour.

At that moment the Holy Spirit, by His indweliing, brought me the life of the ascended Lord Jesus Christ to be my Christian life. Then and there I was placed in my position as a new creation in the Last Adam. Nevertheless, Adamic life and nature continued to indwell my body of mortal flesh.

In the Spirit's time I came to realize the positional truths in the Word concerning me--from Romans 5:12 on throughout Paulls Church Epistles. I saw that I had judicially died unto sin at the Cross, crucified with the Lord Jesus (Gal. 2:20).

In time, and plenty of that, I learned via Romans Seven not to struggle against the fleshly life of Adam within, but to count by faith upon the positional truth of the finished work of the Cross. "For in that He died, He died unto sin once; but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God. Likewise, reckon ye also yourselves to have died indeed unto sin, but to be alive unto God in Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:10,11).

As I reckon my new self positionally dead unto sin, the Holy Spirit progressively applies that finished position to my growing condition. I experience, step by step, the freedom from the power and reign of indwelling Adamic sin that was wrought on Calvary. My condition begins to conform to its source, my position in Christ.

Likewise, reckoning upon my position as "alive unto God in Christ Jesus," the Holy Spirit centers my heart and mind upon the One who is my Christian Life. As I behold Him by means of the Word, in personal fellowship and worship, the Spirit of Christ develops that completed life to manifest the "fruit of the Spirit." With ever increasing growth I am slowly conformed to the image of the Son.

"But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (2 Cor. 3:18).

At the Rapture I will receive my renewed body, like unto His glorious body. Then, and not until then, my body of mortal flesh will be instantly transformed into my spiritual body. The old Adamic man will finally be eradicated, and I will be in eternal condition what has been my position ever since my death and resurrection in Him at Calvary--yes, ever since my Father formed me in His heart in eternity past.

The question remains: what of these great liberating positional truths have you learned from the Church--whether it be through your local Bible church, or elsewhere?

From nearly fifty years of close observation, I would say that your chances are just about one in a thousand. If the leadership in the sound Church realized who and where they are in the glorified Lord Jesus Christ, would they stop at Romans 5:11, unable to really enter into Romans 5:12 and beyond? Would they be OT- and Synoptics-oriented, holding the Church to the earthly level of Israel and her law?

Would they substitute the synoptic "Gospel of the kingdom" for Paul's exclusive "glorious Gospel"? Would they subject members of the heavenly Body of the glorified Lord Jesus Christ to Israel's earthly New Covenant, or her Mosaic and Kingdom law system--that to which the Christian has died? "For through the Law I died to the Law, that I might live to God" (Gal. 2:19).

This is the present-day tragedy of the Church, settled in the great black hole between Romans 5:11, and 12.

"If [since] ye, then, be risen with Christ, seek those things above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set you affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God" (Col. 3:1-3).

[tekton]

Blessedinhim,

Stanford stated, among other errors, that the church the body of Christ began at Pentecost (Acts 2).

As I have shown from scripture in this thread- that is against what the scripture says.

None of what Christ told Paul about the Body of Christ was known by the apostles in Acts 2. They never preached Paul's message to the Gentiles.

If the church at Rome consisted of both Jew and Gentile and was started by those Romans there at the day of Pentecost it was founded on the same gospel given to Peter and the other apostles and not Paul, as Paul had not yet received his calling. Were these believers both Jew and Gentile not the body of Christ? Are there two churches?
Clearly those at Pentecost were called the church (Act 2:47) do you believe another church arose after this one? Or that scripture is wrong and these were not really the church? Do we remit the great commission of (Act 1:8) to the Jews only? Clearly Peter didn't as he addressed those in (Act 2:29) as both "men and brethren". And what of Peter is he accursed for not teaching the gospel of Paul (Gal 1:8)? I say no as even Paul believed in one Gospel (Eph 4:5)

[BlessedinHim]

So, is it that we are not growing because we do not have our hearts and minds set on things above? I believe that is what is being said here. When we set our minds on things above, perhaps it is like feasting on the heavenly manna and we grow spiritually when we graze on the spiritual heavenly manna.

So, let us set our minds on the heavenly, and let the earthly become dim, so that we grow and work to store treasure in our heavenly homes.

[Majorgrace2]

This new dispensation (age) of grace (God's riches at Christ's expense) has wrought a marvelous thing in us that was not from the beginning. But God had intended for it to be, for He seeketh worshipers who WILL worship Him as He desired before the creation, in spirit and truth. :yeah

God has taken His Son and placed on Him my sin and corruption and He bore in His body my just punishment and gives to me the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ. :hug

I through faith receive it and am indwelt with the Holy Spirit which is the SEED spoken of by John in 1John 3:9. This SEED is never tainted with sin in anyway and cannot sin because it is impossible for me to effect it for it is kept of God Himself. This same SEED will not let a born again believer continue in sin but will warn and stir to righteousness or if not heeded by His promptings WILL remove from life here to the Lord's presence.

We do not keep ourselves but are kept by Him. Can we sin? Yes, the old nature can sin and will. That is why John gives us the answer to cleansing... 1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin(Holy Spirit), because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

:yay:hug:yeah:panic:thumb

[God's Trombone]

If the church at Rome consisted of both Jew and Gentile and was started by those Romans there at the day of Pentecost it was founded on the same gospel given to Peter and the other apostles and not Paul, as Paul had not yet received his calling. Were these believers both Jew and Gentile not the body of Christ? Are there two churches?


We don't know for sure but we can posit that, yes, Paul wrote to Jews and Greeks or Gents associated with Israel- believers like those saved in Jerusalem. That they were not yet members of the Body of Christ is evident by the fact of Paul writing them to share "the Gospel of Christ" Rom. 1:16 [quote]16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.And Rom. 1:11[quote]11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;By "established" Paul means to become part of the Body of Christ by his Gospel, the Word of Truth which was still hidden when these believers became part of the little flock by believing Peter's message. As such they were not established in eternal life. By not hearing the Gospel Paul received from Christ, they would have to "endure until the end" in order to be saved." Paul's Gospel (Rom. 3-8) gives an immediate gift of eternal life.


Clearly those at Pentecost were called Romans 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;he church (Act 2:47) do you believe another church arose after this one? Or that scripture is wrong and these were not really the church?

The word "church" as you know means "assembly" or called out ones. This applies to many different things in scripture. The Jewish believers in Jerusalem were a "church" but not the church the Body of Christ.

Do we remit the great commission of (Act 1:8) to the Jews only?

Peter , James and John in Acts 15 bound themselves to go only to the "circumcision" therein they eliminated the commission they would have done if Israel had not been set aside by God.

Clearly Peter didn't as he addressed those in (Act 2:29) as both "men and brethren".

Peter continued in early Acts preaching t Israel and offering the kingdom until God began showing him the kingdom could not be offered any longer and Peter turned to "feeding the flock." And awaiting Christ's return.

And what of Peter is he accursed for not teaching the gospel of Paul (Gal 1:8)? I say no as even Paul believed in one Gospel (Eph 4:5)

No Peter is not accursed for he was sent to the circumcision with his own good news, and Paul was sent to the uncircumcision with his.

Eph. 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Peter's good news is never addressed to these Ephesians whom had no connection to Israel. The "one baptism" here is the Spirit's baptizing us into the Body of Christ.Peter's baptism was the Jewish water baptism.


8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Paul had preached his good news (Gospel) to these Galatians, and some, not Peter, had come preaching another Gospel (the one Peter preached in Jerusalem).Such would be "accursed" for trying to bring these converts of Paul's Gospel back under the law. Peter, James and John's disciples were under the law. The law is always and will always be associated with Israel. Jews today get saved just as Gentiles do, by the Gospel of Grace (That Paul preached.)

[HeIsEnough]

I KNOW YOU'RE IN THERE!


Cling to this great truth, it will help identify those who are clueless, and have not really grown in the Lord at all, but have relied on their flesh and their own understanding....